Jazzmoose Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 - and much as I l love Sid Catlett, on this date, Max sweeps him away, as well - ← I don't know about swept away, but Max stood out for me on this disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 I agree with Francis, as I understand his point - as a matter of fact, clearly Byas agreed as well, as his stage departure was surprising and unannounced. ← Geez, I just figured he left because the guy he was filling in for showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Me too. I mean. . . should we be looking for Hank Mobleyian psychodrama? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 not Mobley psychodrama - just a guy who realized he was significanly upstaged - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 not Mobley psychodrama - just a guy who realized he was significanly upstaged - ← Clearly a guy who was a fill-in who left when the guy he was filling in for showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Yeah, that's how I hear it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 This is a silly fight with folks taking sides with stronger opinions than their "points" deserve. If FD had used the word "context" there would be no problem from my point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 much as I l love Sid Catlett, on this date, Max sweeps him away ← Just curious, Allen, who you think is playing on the last cut, 52nd Street. The liners credit Max but several here (including Chuck, Sangrey and Lon) think it's Sid. That's my guess as well. What do you think? ← It's a great CD, but I'm confused. Small point really. On p. 16, the notes read "....the public prevails and Big Sid remains at the drums for a loping version of Monk's 52nd Street Theme." So the liners are crediting Sid, right? I lean to Sid myself on 52nd St., and without taking anything away from Sid, I think that Max is OUTSTANDING on his tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 (edited) much as I l love Sid Catlett, on this date, Max sweeps him away ← Just curious, Allen, who you think is playing on the last cut, 52nd Street. The liners credit Max but several here (including Chuck, Sangrey and Lon) think it's Sid. That's my guess as well. What do you think? ← It's a great CD, but I'm confused. Small point really. On p. 16, the notes read "....the public prevails and Big Sid remains at the drums for a loping version of Monk's 52nd Street Theme." So the liners are crediting Sid, right? I lean to Sid myself on 52nd St., and without taking anything away from Sid, I think that Max is OUTSTANDING on his tracks. ← You're absolutely right, John. I missed that and was referring only to the back of the CD which credits Sid with tracks 5 and 6 only. My fault for poor reading comprehension. Thanks for clarifying. Edit: ..and I think both drummers sound magnificent. Edited August 15, 2005 by Free For All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 It's a great CD, but I'm confused. Small point really. On p. 16, the notes read "....the public prevails and Big Sid remains at the drums for a loping version of Monk's 52nd Street Theme." So the liners are crediting Sid, right? I lean to Sid myself on 52nd St., and without taking anything away from Sid, I think that Max is OUTSTANDING on his tracks. ← Max plays his ass off during the concert, and gives us the first view of a "totally bebop quintet". Prior to this recording all commercial bop records included a "ringer" from the previous era. I would hope all really serious fans of the era would listen (and chart sequentially) the commercial recordings of the time. I have done this and it's really informative. I decided the cymbal playing on 52nd nailed it as Sid - that was my call. I still think it is Catlett on drums here though S Crouch and L Schoenberg think it's Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 do not as agee about Byas, as here was a guy who was as competetive as they come, and who went to the trouble to show up - I will repeat my earlier assertion that he was seriously upstaged, and, as I mentioned, this is supported by what musicians who were actually playing at the time reported as the contemporarty response from other musicians - and Chuck's point about the use of the word "context" is right on the money- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Competitive is one thing, professional is another. He wasn't contracted to play the gig wit that group and was merely a stand-in for Bird until Bird arrived. It would have been unprofessional to remain, as this was a concert, not a jam session. I've no doubt that he wanted to stay and play. This was music that he had been actively involved in, and he played it very well. I'm sure that, based on what I know about him, that he was probably chomping at the bit to hamg around and blow, especially since by June of 1945, he might well have been feeling the first gusts of the draft, and it no doubt didn't sit well woth him. But that would not be professional behavior in this context. In June of 1945, Don Byas was still a player with a name on the New York scene. To cause a disruption at a Town Hall concert would not be a good career move, and I'm pretty sure that he was smart enough to realize that. Think about it - here's Don Byas, one of the most competitive and proud men in the hstory of the music, a man whose resolute determination to position himself as a "modern" tenor man, no matter what, was perhaps his defining characteristic, all of a sudden being so overcome by feelings of inadequacy in a concert of music which he was intimately familiar with that he turned tail and ran out. That just doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Just about every damn website is like..."backordered"... 2-5 weeks... Guess the NY Times article did it's job... Can anybody get this? Not sure when (or from where) I'll get my copy.... any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Try Chuck Nessa, he usually has some to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 It's the "Sidewinder" of Uptown Records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Well, let's hope the success will finance some equally great future projects (or remasterings of old Uptown catalog). Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Not to mention that new Convention Center Chuck wants to develop in his hometown. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazaro Vega Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 To put the concert in context, too, and correct me if I'm wrong in the specifics, it needs to be mentioned that Byas had his own spotlight on this stage; that the Bird and Diz part was only one "set" of an evening featuring Erroll Garner's Trio by itself, then with Byas as well as Buck Clayton, and the finale was Pearl Bailey. What survives of Byas and Garner's material is not timid, or outdated. Though the Garner material was of it's time, Byas is timeless, and his music was a feat of sound and imagination that he exudes confidence. When you said he made a sudden and un-accounced for exit I thought you meant to Europe! When the Don Redman Band brought bebop to Europe it was with Byas, Billy Taylor and Tadd Dameron's charts as the bearers of the new sound. So, clearly a transitional figure who's style wasn't as old as Hawk or Pres. By the crowd reaction in Town Hall it is clear that Big Sid is a Star. I'm sure what Allen is talking about is true for musicians yet the musical changes were still coming on with the public, and the crowd sounds electrified to have Sid come on stage. They obviously loved him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 After the NYT piece, this has been a nutso day for me. Unfortunately I didn't make a dime. ← Huh??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Twizzle Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Another rave review http://www.citypages.com/databank/26/1290/article13630.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Since it's backordered everywhere, I just physically bought a copy at a store (Amoeba)----very nice to just go out, buy a CD, bring it home, play it, and love it. I'm just old-fashioned, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Never on backorder here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Never on backorder here. And immediate shipment! (I'm doing my best, Chuck, but some of these chuckleheads just won't listen. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 Just referred someone to you Chuck! Told him to ask about the Mingus too because it's so essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 (edited) Last week Robert Fulford devoted his entire Natinal Post column to kvelling about the cd . Fulford's been a culural commentator for decades. (I used to guest on his CBC radio show many years ago.) I tried to provide a link but failed. Perhaps someone more computer savvy than me (eg any 13 year old) could find it. Fulford suggests (regretfully) that the concert may replace the Massey hall concert as the great Bop event. If you're in Canada can you order directly from the good doctor? Edited August 27, 2005 by medjuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.