NFL chat thread

[Larry Kart]

Pardon me it this has been said before, but listening to the radio a few minutes ago, it suddenly occurred to me why (probably) Belichik ran across the field while there was still a second left on the clock and Giants had yet to run a final play -- control. Belichick could not of course do anything to control the outcome of the game anymore (barring an insane error on the part of the Giants), but he could try to control (and in fact did control) the literal way the game ended -- as the result of a decision/act on his part. A great coach, but he's f------- nuts; not that those things are contradictory.

[Tim McG]

My condolences to Pats fans....but it was a great run this season anyway.

Congrats to NY Giants fans....Strahan and Manning were just plain unstoppable!

Except for that non-fumble call, it was a pretty good game I thought.

Tom Petty was great, too! Best halftime in years, IMHO.

[connoisseur series500]

I just feel the football gods were on our side all year. It was bound to turn. Being undefeated is an undesired curse.

Well yeah, law of averages says you gotta lose at least once during the season. Better to lose one in the front 16 than later on, eh?

I will say this, though - if there's any franchise in American professional sports that can eventually pull it off, it's the Patriots.

I dunno...despite all the talent, and the brain trust, I have the feeling that the NEP "dynasty" has now jumped the shark. Needless to say, I could be completely wrong.

I'm thinking the same thing. They will make the playoffs next year but only because they play in the weakest division in the NFL. However, the defense, especially the linebackers, needs some upgrading. Vrabel will be 33 next season, Bruschi will be 35, Thomas & Colvin will be 31, and Junior Seau will be 40! While they can still defend the run pretty well they can't keep up on the little slant routes across the middle. The Eagles exposed this during their game earlier this season. The Gmen exploited it well in both of their match ups this season. Rodney Harrison(turns 36 next season) has lost a step or 3. He wasn't quite the same player this year minus the steroids. On the O side Faulk is turning 32. Stallworth and Moss are FA's. They will re-sign Moss but it's gonna cost them big time against the cap which will limit the other personnel moves they need to make. The once impenetrable O Line looked very porous last night.

Pretty gloomy and inaccurate analysis. Our linebackers are old, but this can be addressed with four picks in the first three rounds of the draft. In the meantime, there are linebackers available in free agency as well as some younger ones on the team being groomed for future roles while playing special teams. Seau will likely retire. Bruschi will be fine in a platooning role. Vrable made the Pro Bowl, so he's likely got another year or two left in him. Colvin and Adalius still have a few years left. Where's the gloom and doom? Rodney is getting old, but he played a great Super Bowl with 13 tackles. I felt he was our best defender out there last night. We are stacked at safety, so Rodney can play a platooning role with James Sanders and Brandon Meriweather. Asante Samuel is likely gone. We'll have to draft a replacement. What about the young part of our defence? Sanders and Meriweather are young, as is our entire defensive line. Moss will likely stay in NE for around $6 mil/year--which is very affordable to our cap. Stallworth is not a free agent. He is signed for next year, as is Wes Welker. Stallworth is due for a pay hike, and NE has the option of letting him go if they feel 3rd year man Chad Jackson can replace him. Kevin Faulk is still very effective as a third down back as shown in last night's game. Maroney is a youngster, of course; and Sammy Morris is in his prime. Our blocking tight end, Kyle Brady doesn't have much mileage yet, but we do have youngsters, Ben Watson and Dave Thomas. Brady is still in the prime of his career. The O-line are in the prime of their careers. Belichick and Scott Pioli are masters at turning over players each year to keep the team in the elite category. Dream on about a Patriot demise, Deeley. Who is your team, the Jets?

Edited February 5, 2008 by connoisseur series500

[connoisseur series500]

=Kind of hard to make adjustments when you can't steal the other teams signals

This statement is too dumb to deserve a response.

[connoisseur series500]

He wasn't quite the same player this year minus the steroids.

Rodney didn't take any steroids. He took HGH to help an injury heal. It is a banned substance, but it is not a steroid. It is not used to build muscle mass.

Get your facts right before you pile more ignorant hate on a team. Sheesh!

[papsrus]

Pretty gloomy and inaccurate analysis. Our linebackers are old, but this can be addressed with four picks in the first three rounds of the draft. In the meantime, there are linebackers available in free agency as well as some younger ones on the team being groomed for future roles while playing special teams. Seau will likely retire. Bruschi will be fine in a platooning role. Vrable made the Pro Bowl, so he's likely got another year or two left in him. Colvin and Adalius still have a few years left. Where's the gloom and doom? Rodney is getting old, but he played a great Super Bowl with 13 tackles. I felt he was our best defender out there last night. We are stacked at safety, so Rodney can play a platooning role with James Sanders and Brandon Meriweather. Asante Samuel is likely gone. We'll have to draft a replacement. What about the young part of our defence? Sanders and Meriweather are young, as is our entire defensive line. Moss will likely stay in NE for around $6 mil/year--which is very affordable to our cap. Stallworth is not a free agent. He is signed for next year, as is Wes Welker. Stallworth is due for a pay hike, and NE has the option of letting him go if they feel 3rd year man Chad Jackson can replace him. Kevin Faulk is still very effective as a third down back as shown in last night's game. Maroney is a youngster, of course; and Sammy Morris is in his prime. Our blocking tight end, Kyle Brady doesn't have much mileage yet, but we do have youngsters, Ben Watson and Dave Thomas. Brady is still in the prime of his career. The O-line are in the prime of their careers. Belichick and Scott Pioli are masters at turning over players each year to keep the team in the elite category. Dream on about a Patriot demise, Dooley. Who is your team, the Jets?

Fair enough. I expect the Pats to come back next year on a mission after getting beat Sunday, but ... that O-line was demolished. That's a problem when your offense relies on Brady winging the ball 30-40-50 times a game.

And the defense certainly seems vulnerable, particularly at linebacker. The front seven -- let alone the front four -- couldn't put nearly enough pressure on Manning. ... They'll plug whatever holes they need to personnel-wise. But they were ranked No. 4 overall this season. Are they capable of playing better than that? Maybe. But I'm not sure I'd hang my hat on "maybe."

But the defense, I thought, played well enough overall to win the game. It's not like they were allowing big plays all over the field. They kept it close. Seems to me it came down to the Giants front four just overpowered that O-line, and the Pats coaching staff had no answer.

[Chalupa]

He wasn't quite the same player this year minus the steroids.

Rodney didn't take any steroids. He took HGH to help an injury heal. It is a banned substance, but it is not a steroid. It is not used to build muscle mass.

Get your facts right before you pile more ignorant hate on a team. Sheesh!

Whatever.

[connoisseur series500]

Everyone is welcome to their own opinions, and no one is sure of anything until the next season actually starts. I have to say this, however: it's hard to beat the track record of Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli when it comes to placing a quality team on the field. They frequently turn over the roster as mandated in today's NFL with its salary caps and free agency, and yet always present a quality product. It's never the players with this team, folks, it's the management. When they go somewhere else, or retire, we'll fall back to mediocrity. Players come and go in today's NFL. They always will. BB and Pioli understand that and are masters of that game. Check their track record over the last seven years. Even with the team being called a "dynasty," they managed to field their strongest team in 2007.

[JSngry]

Pardon me it this has been said before, but listening to the radio a few minutes ago, it suddenly occurred to me why (probably) Belichik ran across the field while there was still a second left on the clock and Giants had yet to run a final play -- control. Belichick could not of course do anything to control the outcome of the game anymore (barring an insane error on the part of the Giants), but he could try to control (and in fact did control) the literal way the game ended -- as the result of a decision/act on his part. A great coach, but he's f------- nuts; not that those things are contradictory.

Pretty much my feelings. Kind of an Ahab-type thing goin' on, maybe.

[7/4]

Somebody told me that a Giants win would be good for the stock market.

Should be a big rally on Wall Street tomorrow.

Didn't happen.

[Brad]

As a Giants fan, I was obviously glad they won. However, I think the streak did the Pats no good. Had they lost one during the season, they might be champs today, esp. considering how poorly they played the last month or so during the regular season; they had no business winning the Raven game, for e.g.

[Free For All]

I think the two-week break does more to hurt than help. Sure, the players get a chance to heal up some, but I think they get inside their own heads too much, which is magnified by the media hype and scrutiny. I think the same thing about the NCAA championship game- too much time off.

Yes, both teams had to deal with the time off, but the pressure was on the Pats to "fulfill their destiny" and I'm not sure if they were overconfident or unsure of themselves. They were most certainly NOT the team that won the first 18 games!

I think the media has definitely gone from reporting the news to creating the news, in politics, sports and pop culture. I can't imagine living under that microscope. Thank goodness I'm a trombone-playing jazz musician, I'll never have to endure that!*

*also left-handed

My people:

[robviti]

'Day of mourning' for stunned Pats fans

By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | February 5, 2008

Adam Marchand sat alone on a park bench in Copley Square yesterday, somberly staring straight ahead. He had no book, no newspaper, no cellphone, no iPod. Just painful memories of the agonizing New England Patriots loss in Sunday's Super Bowl and thoughts of what might have been.

"This is a day of mourning," said Marchand, a 29-year-old hotel worker from the Back Bay. "I didn't want to even get up today. I still can't believe it."

Marchand had taken the day off in anticipation of a late-night celebration to mark an undefeated season and the team's fourth Super Bowl championship. Instead, he and countless other heartbroken Boston fans spent the day in a state of disbelief, struggling to make sense of a soul-crushing defeat that few saw coming or even imagined possible.

Losing in the final seconds, just one win shy of perfection, was the cruelest twist, they said.

"They had a chance to make history," he lamented. "The undefeated season, gone. It doesn't mean anything anymore."

From the South End through the Back Bay to City Plaza, diehard Patriots fans shuffled in a half-trance down streets they had expected to dance in during a victory parade planned for today. In a sports-crazed city whose spirit is inextricably bound to the fate of local teams, the mood was decidedly morose, the sense of loss genuine.

"You can hear a pin drop," Samantha King said as she walked across Boston Common. Like Marchand, King had taken the day off, expecting Sunday night to stretch far into Monday morning. Instead, the Super Bowl party broke up early, and the 31-year-old spent the day shopping for shoes.

Patriots garb, omnipresent in recent days, was rarely seen. On a bleak, gray day that matched the mindset of many people, the city felt slower, sadder. Smiles were scarce, mutters the main form of conversation. Many boycotted all sports coverage, and some could not even bring themselves to discuss the game. Too soon, they said.

"I really don't want to talk about it," said Sean Savignano, a 21, a courier from Dorchester. "I'm really bummed."

New England sports fans have known plenty of heartache. But in recent years, with the Red Sox and Patriots winning an incredible five titles between them without a single championship defeat, once-fatalistic fans had come to expect the best. Surely the unbeaten and heavily favored Patriots would not break the streak.

When they did, spoiling a perfect season and the claim to be the greatest team of all time, many fans felt sucker-punched. This loss was not supposed to happen. This loss would linger and leave a mark.

"It's a hard [expletive] blow; that's for sure," said Ray Thibault, 19, of Boston. "19-0, I was sure of it. I still can't believe it. Man."

Standing on Boylston Street, Thibault could almost picture the throngs of delirious fans as his conquering heroes rolled by on Duck Boats. He would have been right there with them, he said wistfully, whooping until his voice went hoarse.

The shocking upset cut wide, from laborers in hard hats who ate lunch together in grim silence, to downtown business types who vented about the game during cigarette breaks.

And to a fan, it cut deep.

"I'm absolutely devastated," admitted Douglas Cooper, 25, from Andover on his lunch break. "We had it, the perfect season, and it all fell apart. It's totally depressing."

Jose Pina, 35, from Roxbury, woke up feeling blue, and put on Red Sox garb, as a form of solace. It didn't work.

"We should have had that game," he said near Copley Square. "They broke my heart. They broke everyone's heart. Everyone is down today."

Like many fans, Pina leaned on previously won titles to soothe his wounded psyche.

"We're still a dynasty," he said. "We're still the city of champions. I'll be OK."

Some found kinship in the shared suffering.

"I've been walking around looking at all the sad faces," said John Yelmokas, 68, from Braintree. "Everything seems dead today."

Some observers shook their head at all the moping. Buck up, they said. It's just a game.

"They had 18 wins, but people still complain," said Joe Santo, a newspaper vendor in Copley Square.

"They love to complain. They want to relive the pain. They can't let it go."

Brockton resident Karen Mathis also had little patience for self-pity. On her morning train ride into Boston, Mathis said she did not see a single person smile.

"They're just sulking," said Mathis, 50. "They'll get over it."

On the Common, a woman in her 20s wearing a blue Patriots cap looked downcast and somewhat lost.

Asked about the game, she bristled.

"I really don't want to talk about it," she said. "Sorry."

When a light turned green at an intersection, she hesitated, unsure where to go.

Finally, she strolled into the Public Garden.

Note: I'm placing the city of Boston on suicide watch. Britney will have to look after herself in the mean time.

[Aggie87]

From Letterman's show last night

Top Ten New England Patriots Excuses:

10. What? It's best-of-seven.

9. Too much pre-game chowder.

8. Since when is that dude allowed to catch a ball with his head?!

7. Terrified by that Fox football robot.

6. Everything was fine til' Dr. Phil decided to straighten us out.

5. Should have campaigned harder in Florida.

4. Entire team stayed up late that night before watching Hannah Montana concert movie.

3. Exhausted after spending hours consoling a weepy Terrell Owens.

2. Thought game was supposed to be played on Super Tuesday.

1. Airline lost our 'roids.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

re: BB trotting off too soon = very Clevelandy!

gotta control the bread!

article of interest for "conn":

Belichick Reconsidered

[Dan Gould]

I fail to grasp the significance of Belichik not being there for the final snap. Did he not run out to congratulate Coughlin? Didn't the confetti rain down? Who gives a shit if they put another second on the clock - he's supposed to run out and assume his position on the sideline, headset on? I'd understand the criticism if the man trotted off the field without acknowledging the winners, but this is much ado about nothing.

[Patrick]

re: BB trotting off too soon = very Clevelandy!

gotta control the bread!

article of interest for "conn":

Belichick Reconsidered

I liked that BB peanut butter and jelly bit. One of the local Cleveland stations tried to do a magazine-style Bill Belichick "coach show" during his time there, and it was pretty lame. Mainly because BB has very little personality, or at least little ability/willingness to emote in front of the press/camera. Really awkward conversations about football. [unlike Ditka, Parcells, Johnson, to name a few.] So I took the PB and J thing to be a nice send up of that. At least it showed he had a sense of humor about himself.

[Jim Alfredson]

"This is a day of mourning," said Marchand, a 29-year-old hotel worker from the Back Bay. "I didn't want to even get up today. I still can't believe it."

Spare me.

[Patrick]

I fail to grasp the significance of Belichik not being there for the final snap. Did he not run out to congratulate Coughlin? Didn't the confetti rain down? Who gives a shit if they put another second on the clock - he's supposed to run out and assume his position on the sideline, headset on? I'd understand the criticism if the man trotted off the field without acknowledging the winners, but this is much ado about nothing.

I'm not making it a big deal, but it fits the pattern. Yes he ran out directly at Coughlin, shook his hand quickly, and ran away as quickly as possible (not acknowledging anything/one else, near as I could tell). No, he doesn't need to put his headset back on. But the season is over, why rush off the field after doing the minimum possible? There's no game next week to prepare (and no flight to catch either). How many other coaches would do what he did? I suspect not that many. How about acknowledging some of the Giants players or asst coaches? Ultimately, it's not that important, but I was curious to see what he'd do after having his first bad outcome of the season. As others have noted, he and his team are tremendous evaluators of talent and game tacticians, and that's the most important thing.

Perhaps he just really needed to use the facilities, or to change back into one of those all cotton-almost sleeveless-homeless person-hoodies.

[RDK]

From Letterman's show last night

Top Ten New England Patriots Excuses:

10. What? It's best-of-seven.

9. Too much pre-game chowder.

8. Since when is that dude allowed to catch a ball with his head?!

7. Terrified by that Fox football robot.

6. Everything was fine til' Dr. Phil decided to straighten us out.

5. Should have campaigned harder in Florida.

4. Entire team stayed up late that night before watching Hannah Montana concert movie.

3. Exhausted after spending hours consoling a weepy Terrell Owens.

2. Thought game was supposed to be played on Super Tuesday.

1. Airline lost our 'roids.

Even better than the Top Ten list was Dave's hilarious recap of the game. "Until the fourth quarter, David Tyree hadn't caught a pass since the fourth grade."

[WorldB3]

He wasn't quite the same player this year minus the steroids.

Rodney didn't take any steroids. He took HGH to help an injury heal. It is a banned substance, but it is not a steroid. It is not used to build muscle mass.

Get your facts right before you pile more ignorant hate on a team. Sheesh!

So its ok to take HGH in the NFL but not in MLB?

Its funny how people hold different standards for different sports. Heck a player who got suspended for 4 games last year for steroids was still voted to the pro bowl.

[Dan Gould]

He wasn't quite the same player this year minus the steroids.

Rodney didn't take any steroids. He took HGH to help an injury heal. It is a banned substance, but it is not a steroid. It is not used to build muscle mass.

Get your facts right before you pile more ignorant hate on a team. Sheesh!

So its ok to take HGH in the NFL but not in MLB?

Its funny how people hold different standards for different sports. Heck a player who got suspended for 4 games last year for steroids was still voted to the pro bowl.

First of all, there's no question that baseball has a tougher PED policy than the NFL.

Second, HGH makes everything grow bigger - including muscles. To say it doesn't build muscle mass is wrong. Furthermore, because it makes everything grow, HGH has the potential to be more helpful to football players, such as a lineman who grows bigger and wider and fills a larger space. That's a more effective lineman.

[Aggie87]

Interesting quote from Michael Strahan, in the NY Post:

Prior to leaving here, Michael Strahan was non-committal about returning for a 16th season with the New York Giants .

"C'mon, man, I'm not even out of the hotel," Strahan said. "Trust me, when I do leave there will be gas in the tank. They're not leaving me completely empty."

Strahan surprisingly said the Patriots were not the toughest opponent the Giants faced this season.

"Trust me, that is the best team we played, the Cowboys," Strahan said.

I'm kinda surprised at that, myself! That, combined with their quick playoff exit, maybe will light a fire under the Cowboys next season to not coast into the playoffs.

It may help motivate the Pats too, though they've got plenty of other things to motivate themselves - 18-1, Spygate I & II now, etc.

[T.D.]

Interesting quote from Michael Strahan, in the NY Post:

Prior to leaving here, Michael Strahan was non-committal about returning for a 16th season with the New York Giants .

"C'mon, man, I'm not even out of the hotel," Strahan said. "Trust me, when I do leave there will be gas in the tank. They're not leaving me completely empty."

Strahan surprisingly said the Patriots were not the toughest opponent the Giants faced this season.

"Trust me, that is the best team we played, the Cowboys," Strahan said.

I'm kinda surprised at that, myself! That, combined with their quick playoff exit, maybe will light a fire under the Cowboys next season to not coast into the playoffs.

It may help motivate the Pats too, though they've got plenty of other things to motivate themselves - 18-1, Spygate I & II now, etc.

I really question the alleged motivational power of "bulletin board" quotes. Possibly it exists, to a limited extent, for super-brash quotes regarding the upcoming week's game, or for nasty ad hominem comments about individual players, but I doubt that Strahan's Cowboys statement will have any effect (or even be remembered) when the '08-'09 season starts.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Second, HGH makes everything grow bigger - including muscles. To say it doesn't build muscle mass is wrong. Furthermore, because it makes everything grow, HGH has the potential to be more helpful to football players, such as a lineman who grows bigger and wider and fills a larger space. That's a more effective lineman.

Dan, where are you reading that? When Rodney Harrison got busted, I read all I could find on HGH. I thought it was a steroid. But after reading about it, it looked to me that HGH shouldn't even be against the rules. It probably doesn't do anything. Many of it's reported benefits have never been clinically proven. It does not make everything grow bigger, it replaces an enzyme the everyone loses as they age and they no longer need to grow.

I couldn't find one report of an adult who took HGH and grew. It looked to me like the only people who could benefit from taking it are short adolescents. Taking HGH continues their "growth spurt". But adults? I couldn't find anything that said it stopped the aging process.

According to one article I read, it has become a rich man's "fountain of youth", with a lot of stars buying it in an effort to stay young.