Guest akanalog Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 surman i guess could loosely be connected to the miles davis world since he played w. holland and mclaughlin at points-and i really like his use of synths. he sort of took an ambient krautrock concept with the sequencing and repititious back drops. also worked well for introspective ECM solo stuff, of course. but his stuff with deiter feichner or whatever his name was? that stuff is pretty cool. mountainscapes and three day moon. rooster-if you consider george duke part of the miles family (well he had ndugu drum a lot who drummer for miles and uh, he played with john scofield like miles did and billy cobham who played with miles and also with airto and he played with sonny rollins and joe henderson as well)-well here is the guy who really, IMO, plugged in in the early 70s and was truly the best technician, moreso than herbie or corea or zawinul or whoever else-at rocking the electric keyboards. george duke was the master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjk Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Folks, I really wanna say that this is the most informative and interesting thread I've seen 'round here in a long time. Thanks for the perspectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Yeahyeahyeah & blahblahblah, but show me a substantive precedent for that beat distribution on side 2 of OTC and then we can talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Now, why should I play detective? This is about music good/bad/indifferent/misdirected/etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 Yeahyeahyeah & blahblahblah. Yes, that's what I said. I'd feel better about your musical judgements if they weren't from your "hormone" period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 My "hormone period"? Dude, I hope I never have a time that's not my hormone period in some form or fashion! The neutered life is not for me, thanks anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werf Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 I love it when Pete Cosey fucking FREAKS on that Strat, that gigantic mo-fo knows his feedback FREAKOUT!! It makes ripples of electric happiness wriggle and crackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) rooster-if you consider george duke part of the miles family (well he had ndugu drum a lot who drummer for miles and uh, he played with john scofield like miles did and billy cobham who played with miles and also with airto and he played with sonny rollins and joe henderson as well)-well here is the guy who really, IMO, plugged in in the early 70s and was truly the best technician, moreso than herbie or corea or zawinul or whoever else-at rocking the electric keyboards. george duke was the master. Where best to find examples of this work?? Thanks Edited October 18, 2006 by Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 My "hormone period"? Dude, I hope I never have a time that's not my hormone period in some form or fashion! The neutered life is not for me, thanks anyway. Despite your protestations, you be much jumpier at 13-17. Music encountered during this period "imprints" and it is up to the recipient to allocate importance. I have youthful weaknesses for Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley and even Timi Yuro. Never started a thread about this stuff 'cuz I know (and accept) what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werf Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have youthful weaknesses for Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley and even Timi Yuro. Never started a thread about this stuff 'cuz I know (and accept) what it is. CHUCK ROCKS n' ROLLS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 rooster-if you consider george duke part of the miles family (well he had ndugu drum a lot who drummer for miles and uh, he played with john scofield like miles did and billy cobham who played with miles and also with airto and he played with sonny rollins and joe henderson as well)-well here is the guy who really, IMO, plugged in in the early 70s and was truly the best technician, moreso than herbie or corea or zawinul or whoever else-at rocking the electric keyboards. george duke was the master. George Duke went on to play with Miles Davis a couple of times in the mid-1980s, including some of the Warners sessions plus a Montreux cameo. Wrong decade to meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 From his website (I was guessing I would not find any of these at Best Buy): The first quarter of 2007 will see the release of a George Duke MPS albums Box set. So far, except for my website, it will only be available in Europe. Individual albums and songs will be available as a digital download from iTunes and other legitimate digital download services. The box set will include: Faces In Reflection, Feel, The Aura Will Prevail, I Love The Blues, She Heard My Cry, Liberated Fantasies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 wow, that's awesome. i didn't know that. i always rip on MPS for only reissuing hans koller and especially oscar peterson, but this would go a long way towards changing my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 towards the end of the MPS run the music isn't as good, BTW. a lot of singing and less jazz and more tight production "songs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 The Byrds, who were undoubtedly inf. by Brits but synthesized that w/Am. folk, a genius songwriter in Gene Clark, a truly inspired eccentric in David Crosby, an intermittently balls-out 'Trane inspired guitarist in Jim (Roger) McGuinn AND Gary Usher behind the board... this is gonna prob piss everyone off but I rate the highest Byrds as innovative as Miles in that '65-'66 period. (Byrds fell off HARD, as is the general pop/rock wont, Miles peaked high a # of times after). I'm with you on the Byrds. The seemingly unlimited potential of Rock peaked at "Eight Miles High" and "I See You". THAT's a group who was so far ahead of their time, no one has caught up yet 40 years later, and no one even dares take up the quest. They were never the same group after Gene Clark left. There was magic in the McGuinn/Clark/Crosby trio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Who else notably went "electric" in arguably substantive ways during the 70's?? By "substabative" – I mean ways that partially transformed their musical vision – in ways that weren't just about "selling out" – or trying to be more "popular". Lee Morgan on his last album. Chick Corea on 'Return to Forever' and 'Light as a Feather' and 'Where Have I Known You Before' (the sell-out came later, and he has intermittently bought back in when he feels like it). Freddie Hubbard on 'Red Clay' and some of the other CTI's (the sell out came on Columbia). Stanley Turrentine on 'Sugar' (the sell out came on Fantasy). Les McCann on 'Invitation to Openness' and 'Layers'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Who else notably went "electric" in arguably substantive ways during the 70's?? By "substabative" – I mean ways that partially transformed their musical vision – in ways that weren't just about "selling out" – or trying to be more "popular". Freddie Hubbard on 'Red Clay' and some of the other CTI's (the sell out came on Columbia). Stanley Turrentine on 'Sugar' (the sell out came on Fantasy). Felser -- what makes you think that either of these guys went "electric in arguably substantive ways that partially transformed their musical vision" on these albums? Sugar and Red Clay are basically "jazz with a few electric instruments", not so different from what was done before. Maybe we just disagree on the meaning of "substantive" or "transformed". Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 jf-also you didn't mention the RTF album with bill connors prior to where have i known you before. hymn for the seventh galaxy or whatever. it is decent and probably even less of a sellout than the where have i known you...i like it a bit. i agree with guy about those CTI sides. hubbard did go more electric on a few albums (which is the one with with the stevie wonder cover from '74ish). but still, the CTI albums to me felt more like it was creed taylor and bob james deciding what instruments were on what album and not the musician on the cover. les mccann definitly on layers and invitation to openess was exploring the milesian world. layer is a very underrated album, i think thought the other one drags a bit. no one has mentioned tony williams! have they? he definitely plugged in. i woud say believe it is one of the greatest jazz rock fusion albums ever, though one has to accept it for what it is. and larry young, in the sense he got more and more electric from his late 60s BN sides to the arista dates (i really like spaceball!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 no one has mentioned tony williams! have they? he definitely plugged in. i woud say believe it is one of the greatest jazz rock fusion albums ever, though one has to accept it for what it is. and larry young, in the sense he got more and more electric from his late 60s BN sides to the arista dates (i really like spaceball!). Tony Williams was plugged in before the '70s and most of the musicians mentioned. Lifetime was ahead of the pack. Another one to mention is Sun Ra. Sure he went electric in the 1950s, but he went really, really electric in the 1970s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) I'd argue that late-70's Sun Ra stuff like Sleeping Beauty and Lanquidity is about as sonically/technologically reactionary as any one of the founding fathers of free jazz got without losing a sense of edge. For my money, both Prime Time and the disco-Ra sides are mindf'in brilliant, but so long as we're talking catering to (or in, or with) the times, might as well bring that up. Edited October 18, 2006 by ep1str0phy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Who else notably went "electric" in arguably substantive ways during the 70's?? By "substabative" – I mean ways that partially transformed their musical vision – in ways that weren't just about "selling out" – or trying to be more "popular". Freddie Hubbard on 'Red Clay' and some of the other CTI's (the sell out came on Columbia). Stanley Turrentine on 'Sugar' (the sell out came on Fantasy). Felser -- what makes you think that either of these guys went "electric in arguably substantive ways that partially transformed their musical vision" on these albums? Sugar and Red Clay are basically "jazz with a few electric instruments", not so different from what was done before. Maybe we just disagree on the meaning of "substantive" or "transformed". Guy Fair enough comments on the CTI stuff, though I think the rhythms also changed compared to what they did on Blue Note and Atlantic previously, but they weren't massive departures. Altohough it should probably be remembered that 70's Miles was an evolution starting all the way back at 'Nefertiti' and 'Miles in the Sky' rather than a sudden shift. Adam's comments on 'Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy' is also correct, I just overlooked that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 the original Lifetime sorta does tho' it follows avant- rock moves of the time. Are setting those three dudes on LOUD & letting the tape roll enough to grant 'em a new 'concept'? I think so. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 (Gulp) I own no Lifetime recordings. What I've heard, though, I've liked. So ... if you (we) all were to guess, what Miles Davis release (minus remixes and/or best-ofs) do you think we'll see next? A 2-disc set of the Juan les Pins stuff? Something else? (Bill Evans' recorded ruminations driving home in his car after the KoB session?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) I have to wonder if this isn't just Miles's heirs trying to extend their copyright control. If they release "Kind of Blue" with some digitally mixed in crap, the copyright, set to expire in 2061, would now expire 70 years from the death of whoever adds the crap. They could do this with every recording Miles ever did and extend the copyright ad infinitum. From the US government's website (http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hlc): "A work that was created (fixed in tangible form for the first time) on or after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its creation and is ordinarily given a term enduring for the author’s life plus an additional 70 years after the author’s death. In the case of “a joint work prepared by two or more authors who did not work for hire,” the term lasts for 70 years after the last surviving author’s death." Belden himself got burned by this. He made a Jazz version of Puccini's "Turandot" for Blue Note, figuring it would be out of copyright since Puccini died in 1924. It turns out that "Turandot" was finished by Franco Alfano, who died in 1954. So Puccini's estate (why Puccini's estate and not Alfano's estate?) controls "Turandot" until 2029. Kevin Edited October 18, 2006 by Kevin Bresnahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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