Atlantic 60th Anniversary Japanese Reissues

[Late]

I understand that some or most of these recordings are not remastered from the original tapes due to the warehouse fire, but damn! This reissue series is a small revelation. So far, I've listened to Oh Yeah (sounds very good) and The Jimmy Giuffre 3 (sounds amazing). For almost all of last year, I was upgrade-itis free, but this series has me jones-ing to hear some of my all-time favorites in better sound.

Has anyone else here purchased any of the new WPCR mini-LP discs? Which ones, and how are they?

Note: Unlike the original 1998 AMCY series, which also sound good, this series adds bonus tracks where appropriate.

Edited February 16, 2007 by Late

[J.A.W.]

I've only picked up a couple of discs that I didn't already have on CD:

George Wallington - The Prestidigitator

Conte Candoli & Lou Levy - West Coast Wailers

The music's great, and first impressions are that the sound is OK (I've only listened to them once).

I'm not going to get any "sonic upgrades" of stuff I already have on older Atlantic CDs and Rhino/Atlantic CD box sets.

(edited to correct a stupid error...)

Edited February 16, 2007 by J.A.W.

[Chuck Nessa]

Atlantic recordings were not usually "state of the art". They did what they did and I won't pay for "upgrades" either.

Much of the music is great.

edit for typo

Edited February 16, 2007 by Chuck Nessa

[Bluesman]

I have the Giuffre and also Milt Jackson "Plenty Plenty Soul".

I agree the Giuffre sounds great, but the Jackson is a revelation compared to the crappy 80's CD.

[felser]

Atlantic recordings were not usually "state of the art".

It's my understanding that Trane left Atlantic for Impulse! due to dissatisfaction over the sound quality of his Atlantic releases. Have to agree with him. The piano sound on 'Giant Steps', for instance, is unbelievably poor. Chuck, what happened on that one, do you know or can you hazard a guess?

[eeegor]

Is there a comprehensive list of these anywhere, or did they do every 'jazz' album on Atlantic, including stuff like Ti-Ro-Ro?

[Late]

Igor, check here.

I'm in general agreement on the sound of Atlantic issues and reissues. The Giuffre, to single out one example, is, however, a considerable improvement — even over the Mosaic (to my ears). The Mingus set (Oh Yeah) also improves over the "Passions of a Man" box.

I guess I wouldn't necessarily encourage anyone to rush out for these if they already have the music in another form. If any of these are all-time favorites, though, it's worth trying one.

The reason for the thread is simply to enthuse, nothing more. In general, I'm a strong subscriber of placing money toward recordings that are altogether new to a listener.

[Cliff Englewood]

Looks like I'm going to be sending some money to Mr Hiroshi Tanno.

[robert h.]

Actually, they are for the most part a very big sonic upgrade. I was very surprised by this. Recommended to all except those in sonic degrade mode stuck in the "early issues are better" myth.

BUT...generally the pre-1960 stuff - I've tried Pyramid, Fontessa and a few others - doesn't really offer much improvement on the earlier K2 issue.

AND...the Bags & Trane issue has a terrible mastering error truncating the tune Stairway To The Stars by about half a minute - so avoid that one!

Edited February 16, 2007 by robert h.

[Late]

I think it's strange that Atlantic Japan decided not to include the eponymous Warne Marsh date for this batch. That's one of the hardest-to-find titles from the original 1998 AMCY batch. I stumbled across it by chance in 1999 at the Sunset Tower. At the time, I had the Collectables disc containing the same session in my hand. Guess which one didn't make it with me to the cashier!

I really wish they could have slipped Ornette on Tenor into this batch. Just one less MJQ wouldn't hurt things. As it stands, I think the number of reissues for this project is certainly finite.

Whereas the market for Blue Note, Verve, and Impulse! titles in Japan circulates quite frequently (every two to three years), the Atlantic market is much, much more sporadic. Time to grab the Tony Fruscella!

[J.A.W.]

I think it's strange that Atlantic Japan decided not to include the eponymous Warne Marsh date for this batch. That's one of the hardest-to-find titles from the original 1998 AMCY batch. I stumbled across it by chance in 1999 at the Sunset Tower.

I've seen that one quite often, though not recently. I sold mine when I got the Tristano/Konitz/Marsh Mosaic set.

Atlantic Japan should also reissue Worthwhile Konitz on CD, which was released only on Japanese vinyl way back in the 1970s. It's included in the Mosaic set.

Edited February 16, 2007 by J.A.W.

[Bluerein]

Robert H.: please correct your posting because it's not half a minute but only 2 seconds which are missing from the track Stairways to the Stars. Indeed it hears like a mastering error. On the Heavyweight box set it has the correct ending (as I said which is 2 seconds longer).

[Late]

For those that may be interested —

• Coltrane & Cherry: The Avant Garde

The sound's not so good on this one — sounds like a fair amount of compression was used. This session probably never sounded too good to start off with, however. The bass booms on most of the session.

• Tony Fruscella: Tony Fruscella

Excellent sound. Way better, as to be expected, than the Spanish Definitive version. Maybe an earlier (while not the original) tape generation existed for this one? At any rate, the Japanese engineers have worked a small wonder with this one. If you like this session, a sonic upgrade (if those things have meaning for you) is confidently encouraged.

[JohnBlutarski]

check here.

thanks.

20 cd's in total?

(my Japanes ain't what it used to be... )

JB

Edited February 25, 2007 by JohnBlutarski

[Chas]

check here.

thanks.

20 cd's in total?

(my Japanes ain't what it used to be... )

They are being released 20 at a time . 80 titles so far . Click on 'Backnumber' , then use the pull-down menu on the right to see each batch .

Here's hoping the Japanese engineers can work their mojo on George Wallington's Knight Music . Having heard the original wax and the Koch CD , I sincerely doubt it . Not one of Rudy's better recordings ; the music deserved better .

[robert h.]

Robert H.: please correct your posting because it's not half a minute but only 2 seconds which are missing from the track Stairways to the Stars. Indeed it hears like a mastering error. On the Heavyweight box set it has the correct ending (as I said which is 2 seconds longer).

Uuuhhh...no, I don't think I will !!

The track on the new Japanese issue truncates at 3:27 - It is listed on AMG as 3:58...as well as on the box set and online discographies. It's listed on the original LP (and times out) a bit less likely due to some dead air.

It's more than 2 seconds, but anyways, who cares?? IT'S A MASTERING ERROR AND I AM WARNING PEOPLE AWAY FROM IT!!

OK - got it?

ANYONE WHO WANTS TO HEAR A CLIPPED ENDING - buy it.

THOSE WHO DON"T LIKE CLIPPED ENDINGS - avoid.

Simple?

Hmmmmm...now that I think of it - it might actually be 19.5 seconds...or was it a flat 19...or 20.25???

[garthsj]

I have the Giuffre and also Milt Jackson "Plenty Plenty Soul".

I agree the Giuffre sounds great, but the Jackson is a revelation compared to the crappy 80's CD.

For some strange reason "Plenty, Plenty Soul" is a very neglected masterpiece, imo. I have always loved this album, and once even had one of those early weird Atlantic green label stereo versions of this, in which Cannonball sounded as if he was playing in the next room. I assume that this remastered reissue is a mono version of this wonderful album?

I also believe that the stereo takes were different from the mono takes ... I assume that these are not included.

Great Lucky Thompson on the 'B' side ....

Edited February 25, 2007 by garthsj

[Bluesman]

I have the Giuffre and also Milt Jackson "Plenty Plenty Soul".

I agree the Giuffre sounds great, but the Jackson is a revelation compared to the crappy 80's CD.

For some strange reason "Plenty, Plenty Soul" is a very neglected masterpiece, imo. I have always loved this album, and once even had one of those early weird Atlantic green label stereo versions of this, in which Cannonball sounded as if he was playing in the next room. I assume that this remastered reissue is a mono version of this wonderful album?

I also believe that the stereo takes were different from the mono takes ... I assume that these are not included.

Great Lucky Thompson on the 'B' side ....

Stereo takes only, and yes this is a GREAT album.

Cannonball is listed as Ronnie Peters on the facsimile cover. Must have been contractural.

[brownie]

I also believe that the stereo takes were different from the mono takes ... I assume that these are not included.

Great Lucky Thompson on the 'B' side ....

If that's true, I'll be looking for that CD reissue. 'Plenty, Plenty Soul' has been a favorite album since its release. I still have the black label mono original.

Too bad that the sound quality was not a top priority at Atlantic. The label had great music, great covers and much too often no good sound and mastering!

[Clunky]

For those that may be interested —

• Tony Fruscella: Tony Fruscella

Excellent sound. Way better, as to be expected, than the Spanish Definitive version. Maybe an earlier (while not the original) tape generation existed for this one? At any rate, the Japanese engineers have worked a small wonder with this one. If you like this session, a sonic upgrade (if those things have meaning for you) is confidently encouraged.

Is it better than the single CD issue of this date from 1998 ( euro-digipak)

[mikeweil]

I'm a little surprised that the sound of the Atlantics receives so much criticism. They recorded at a rather low level, resulting in a sometimes excessive amount of tape hiss, but the sound of the instrument was always captured beautifully. Maybe the mono masters would sound better, as is often the case with early stereo LPs - the Atlantic LP of Blakey with Monk is a prime example.

I like the sound of most Atlantics I have heard. Remember that those tracks edited from the few tapes surviving the fire sound considerably different from the LP masters used again and again.

Edited February 26, 2007 by mikeweil

[brownie]

Not all the Atlantic albums had sound which was unsatisfactory. For instance, some of the sessions recorded on the West Coast (Shorty Rogers, the early Jimmy Giuffre trio albums in particular) have natural sound. On the East Coast, when Tom Dowd took over the engineering, things improved also but the finished product too often left to be desired.

I just wish Atlantic had maintained the audio quality of their released products to the level reached at the time by Contemporary, BN, Prestige and other labels

[Late]

... the Jackson is a revelation compared to the crappy 80's CD.

I don't have the new Japanese reissue of this one (yet), but, you're right, the 80's edition sounds terrible. I just listened to it, after listening to Bean Bags, which sounds great, and I went from to .

Koch did a really nice job on Atlantic sessions when they were reissuing them. The Lee Konitz and Warne Marsh, for example, sounds especially transparent and rich. I don't know if it truly makes a difference, but Koch's use of HDCD encoding (and consequently my player's ability to read it) added up to some brilliant reissues. Sometimes, though, I think I just like to see the little red HDCD light pop on — so I can say, a la Homer Simpson: HDCD.

[garthsj]

I also believe that the stereo takes were different from the mono takes ... I assume that these are not included.

Great Lucky Thompson on the 'B' side ....

If that's true, I'll be looking for that CD reissue. 'Plenty, Plenty Soul' has been a favorite album since its release. I still have the black label mono original.

Too bad that the sound quality was not a top priority at Atlantic. The label had great music, great covers and much too often no good sound and mastering!

So what are you saying, Brownie .. that if these are the stereo tracks as suggested it would encourage you even more to buy this? I assume that they corrected the balance problem that I alluded to earlier. Also, I do not remember that the 'B' side, with Thompson was ever in stereo ... Can someone who has this album tell me if these cuts are really stereo?

Now ... I wonder if there is ever going to be a reissue of the William (Bill) Russo album, THE WORLD OF ALCINA? I do not think that this has ever been reissued, or at least I have never seen one. (I am a Russo freak).

Edited February 27, 2007 by garthsj

[Bluerein]

Good to know you'll keep making a fool out of yourself Robert!!!! I've LISTENED to the box and the new Japanese remaster and it's really 2 seconds. Don't believe the timings on the net (or even on booklets, etc.) I've had the 2 in my player and saw the timings and listened too. But go ahead and do as you like. The warning is indeed valid.

Edited February 27, 2007 by Bluerein