Barry Bonds quest for HR record

[Dan Gould]

How ironic that you use the word "rectify" considering that it is you who has inserted his head rectally on every salient point in discussion.

I don't think that word means what you think it means...

I know - but the similarity was hard to resist.

[catesta]

With all due respect here Guys....you are confusing brut force with timing and bodily motion required to generate speed.

Just taking a guess here, but I think it is a little easier to generate speed while swinging a long thin tubular piece of lightweight metal that flexes with your arms entended than a bat made of wood hanging over your shoulders.

I don't think you can compare the two games so directly.

Like it was said before, Bonds has the skills to hit, no doubt, but the question remains whether or not he would have been able to hit so many so far without the bulk up juice.

[catesta]

(& NO public financing of ANY professional sports stadium either.)

But, but..., they said it's a win win for all of us!

[Guy Berger]

(& NO public financing of ANY professional sports stadium either.)

Amen!

Guy

[Noj]

In the immortal words of John McEnroe...

[Aggie87]

Bonds not on the Baseball Top 50 MVP list

[J Larsen]

who among you decried the insanely corrupt Yankee stadium deal? i don't know who roots for who here but i'm assuming there are SOME Yankee fans. shit could NOT be more bald & hinky (they're building it on PARKLAND, also, in poorest congressional district) & what was reaction?

[Dan Gould]

Dan-- this is actually easy but it gets into details & posting of obscure public documents, etc. In a nutshell, however, the $$$ amounts as announced were lies, lots of temporarily hidden items that CLEARLY transfer public money to George, who was you know doesn't need it.

The parkland thing is even funnier. The city-- most, if not all city council + Mayor & National Parks Service surrendered but what was open space w/grass, trees, dirt etc will be replaced w/ ...

articifical turn ON TOP OF A PARKGING GARAGE-- i'm NOT making that up. that's not all there is, of course. square feet (or acres) or walkways to/from parking to new stadium ALSO count as parkland

temporary new parks construction, amazingly!!, hadn't started (MONTHS behind schedule) last i checked. (i need to look into again since i've been down south.)

regardless of one's political affiliation-- & in fact, these stadium deals are one area where true left & right people are in agreement, likewise eminent domain abuse-- this was an outrageous fix, pushed thru bc 1) Bloomberg failed to get a Westside football stadium for the Jets & 2) the Olympics

the MYTH of NYC is that it's a liberal city; mind you, this passed a city council where 48 out of 51 members are Democrats, so that Bloomberg is nominally Republican & Giuliani before him... it's hardly all their fault.

even if we could argue Yankees ** NEEDED ** new stadium w/more luxe boxes, etc. there's no place at all, truly, for public financing. They lie & wheedle, call it "capital improvement" but that $$$ isn't invented, they come from somewhere & SOMEONE/thing is getting less as a result. (& repeat, there are all sorts of hidden budgets/items that have ** nothing ** to do w/so-called capital improvement.)

you remember the whole Brooklyn Dodgers thing, right? as crazy as Robert Moses was, he had is own weird sort of rectitude & refused to give in to O'Malley's desire for a cheap land deal bc he didn't believe pro sport was a legitimate "public good." we can argue whether it woulda been worth it or not but for the RICHE$$$T team in American sport to be given money to further enrich themsleves in the city's poorest neighborhood-- it's laughable.

if curious, I can document all this stuff-- it's come out slowly but steadily, much of it by Neil DeMause in the Voice. (DeMause is a baseball fanatic, btw, so he has no anti-sport agenda but he's also hardcore reporter when it comes to these hinky deals.)

edc

ozona, fla

quick start--

Yankees deal

Yankees & Mets deals

Clem,

Thanks for the links. I'd forgotten about the part where they put the park over the new underground parking garages - but I wouldn't have imagined that they're putting artificial turf over them. I figured it was dirt and grass and sports fields and a few trees. Unfortunately, I'm too young to know about the Dodgers thing ...

[Dan Gould]

With all due respect here Guys....you are confusing brut force with timing and bodily motion required to generate speed.

Just taking a guess here, but I think it is a little easier to generate speed while swinging a long thin tubular piece of lightweight metal that flexes with your arms entended than a bat made of wood hanging over your shoulders.

I don't think you can compare the two games so directly.

Beyond that, there's also the fact of massive technological improvements in golf club construction, all designed to allow anyone, large or small, to 'grip it and rip it' 250-300 yards.

It is a completely false argument from someone who specializes in them.

[Tim McG]

GoodSpeak, it would be nice of you would concede that you were incorrect about the Bonds poll earlier.

Guy

Done.

I screwed up the numbers...it's fixed now.

It's the first mistake I've made all year

[Tim McG]

With all due respect here Guys....you are confusing brut force with timing and bodily motion required to generate speed.

Just taking a guess here, but I think it is a little easier to generate speed while swinging a long thin tubular piece of lightweight metal that flexes with your arms entended than a bat made of wood hanging over your shoulders.

I don't think you can compare the two games so directly.

Beyond that, there's also the fact of massive technological improvements in golf club construction, all designed to allow anyone, large or small, to 'grip it and rip it' 250-300 yards.

It is a completely false argument from someone who specializes in them.

Same can be said for the baseball equipment.

Dude....you still have to swing the bat/club. You play golf? Ever hit a curve or a splitter?

Why can't you concede a simple fact of relative motion and physics?

You simply cannot just hand a person a golf club, address the ball and have him hit the thing 300 yards....and I do not care how big he is.

Edited May 8, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[sheldonm]

Anyone who thinks that McGuire, Sosa and Bonds (and others putting up crazy power numbers) sudden shattering of HR records that stood for 50 odd years has nothing to do with the fact that they miraculously gained 30 pounds of pure muscle is kidding themselves. Lots of players have fast bats, but you don't see 5' 10" 180 pound shortstops with fast bats hitting 40, 50 HR's a year. You need strength AS WELL as bat speed. Bonds always had one of the fastest bats in the game. But it wasn’t until his mid-thirties and his steroid use that he started hitting 60 and 70 a year.

I have nothing against the guy personally. I actually used to admire him in many ways. But I for one hope he does not break the record. That’s all the game needs is another asterisks next to one its most important records.

...at least McGwire was s home run hitter from the git go....49 as a rookie when he was slim and trim...~

[Dan Gould]

With all due respect here Guys....you are confusing brut force with timing and bodily motion required to generate speed.

Just taking a guess here, but I think it is a little easier to generate speed while swinging a long thin tubular piece of lightweight metal that flexes with your arms entended than a bat made of wood hanging over your shoulders.

I don't think you can compare the two games so directly.

Beyond that, there's also the fact of massive technological improvements in golf club construction, all designed to allow anyone, large or small, to 'grip it and rip it' 250-300 yards.

It is a completely false argument from someone who specializes in them.

Same can be said for the baseball equipment.

WHAT????

Nothing of any significance whatsoever has changed in the manufacture of wood bats.

There is no question whatsoever that golf clubs have changed dramatically in the past 10-15 years.

[Aggie87]

I shouldn't even have to say this, but golf is a completely different game than baseball. Hitting a golfball is simply not equivalent to hitting a baseball, no matter how much you like to believe it is, goodspeak.

There is substantial mass and density in the head of a golf club, and merely swinging it is going to create force against a non-moving ball. Hitting a golf ball is more equivalent to playing t-ball than playing baseball. My son is playing t-ball this year again (the kids range from 4-6 years old), and every kid on our team has hit the ball successfully. The kids who are older, larger, and clearly stronger hit the ball further, consistently.

In baseball, the ball is flying towards the batter at 80-100 mph. A weak hitter isn't going to hit that out of the infield, assuming he/she has the vision and eye-hand coordination required to make contact in the first place. A strong hitter with good vision and coordination is going to smack the ball, and a strong hitter with great muscle mass is going to hit the ball with even greater force. The power with which the bat hits the ball is directly related to the speed AND force the batter commands.

[Aggie87]

Curt Schilling's talking out.

Schilling says Bonds cheated on wife, taxes, baseball

BOSTON (Ticker) -- Barry Bonds never has admitted to using steroids. Apparently, Curt Schilling believes he has.

The outspoken pitcher of the Boston Red Sox on Tuesday took some verbal shots at Bonds, who needs 12 homers to break Hank Aaron's all-time home run record.

Bonds has been at the center of baseball's ongoing steroids controversy, but never has admitted to knowingly taking steroids.

Schilling must have thought otherwise during an interview with WEEI on Tuesday.

"He [bonds] admitted he used steroids. There's no gray area," Schilling said on WEEI. "He [bonds] admitted cheating on his wife, cheating on taxes and cheating on the game."

On Dec. 4, 2003, Bonds was one of several athletes forced to testify as part of the BALCO case, which centered around the San Francisco-area lab, its founder Victor Conte, and Greg Anderson -- Bonds' personal trainer and longtime friend.

Anderson was indicted for illegal distribution of steroids. Bonds told the grand jury that he believed Anderson had given him flaxseed oil and arthritic balm, a substance that turned out to contain steroids.

A book released in 2006 by San Francisco Chronicle reporters Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, Game of Shadows alleges Bonds engaged in persistent doping, taking four different kinds of steroids as well as insulin and human growth hormone during 2001 alone, when he hit 73 homers to break Mark McGwire's single-season record.

The accusations have clouded Bonds' pursuit of Aaron's record of 755 homers. Aaron has said he will not be in attendance when Bonds attempts to break the record.

"Hank Aaron not being there, the commissioner [bud Selig] not knowing where he's going to be, it's sad," Schilling told WEEI. "I don't care if he's black, green, purple or yellow or whatever. It's just unfortunate there's good people and bad people."

A seven-time National League MVP, Bonds has 10 homers this season, raising his career total to 744.

Bonds, 43, reportedly failed an amphetamines test last season, and the New York Daily News reported that Bonds attributed the positive test results to a substance he took from the locker of teammate Mark Sweeney.

Bonds later absolved Sweeney of any involvement but never commented on whether or not he took amphetamines.

[donald byrd 4 EVA]

Is this the same Schilling who was on the 1993 Phillies team?

[Quincy]

Case in point: Jose Canseco., aka, Jose CanStrikeOut. The guy is as big as a house and couldn't hit his hat size let alone jack the ball out of the park 755 times.

No, but he averaged 40 per 162 games. 20th lifetime in HR per AB. His 462 is 30th on the total HR list. Hardly an example that helps your case.

[Dan Gould]

Case in point: Jose Canseco., aka, Jose CanStrikeOut. The guy is as big as a house and couldn't hit his hat size let alone jack the ball out of the park 755 times.

No, but he averaged 40 per 162 games. 20th lifetime in HR per AB. His 462 is 30th on the total HR list. Hardly an example that helps your case.

Not only is it a poor example for his "case" (which is nonexistent) but Canseco is the poster boy for how, in a no testing system, steroids can keep you in the league for 17 seasons. With a .266 career batting average and a severe defensive liability, only Canseco's steroid-fueled ability to hit taters made him a major leaguer.

[connoisseur series500]

Man, lots of hate for Barry Bonds. I guess his personality was hardly endearing, but steroids or no steroids--hitting all those homers is still a feat. He's got to go down in history as one of the best power hitters in the game.

[Guy Berger]

Man, lots of hate for Barry Bonds. I guess his personality was hardly endearing, but steroids or no steroids--hitting all those homers is still a feat. He's got to go down in history as one of the best power hitters in the game.

Nah, I don't hate him. As long as what he does helps the Giants win games and he's aware of the consequences to his health...

Guy

Edited May 9, 2007 by Guy

[Soulstation1]

745

[Jazzmoose]

Case in point: Jose Canseco., aka, Jose CanStrikeOut. The guy is as big as a house and couldn't hit his hat size let alone jack the ball out of the park 755 times.

No, but he averaged 40 per 162 games. 20th lifetime in HR per AB. His 462 is 30th on the total HR list. Hardly an example that helps your case.

Not only is it a poor example for his "case" (which is nonexistent) but Canseco is the poster boy for how, in a no testing system, steroids can keep you in the league for 17 seasons. With a .266 career batting average and a severe defensive liability, only Canseco's steroid-fueled ability to hit taters made him a major leaguer.

Hey, if Dave Kingman could hang around as long as he did in the pre-steroid era, I don't see where this is much of an argument...

[Dan Gould]

Case in point: Jose Canseco., aka, Jose CanStrikeOut. The guy is as big as a house and couldn't hit his hat size let alone jack the ball out of the park 755 times.

No, but he averaged 40 per 162 games. 20th lifetime in HR per AB. His 462 is 30th on the total HR list. Hardly an example that helps your case.

Not only is it a poor example for his "case" (which is nonexistent) but Canseco is the poster boy for how, in a no testing system, steroids can keep you in the league for 17 seasons. With a .266 career batting average and a severe defensive liability, only Canseco's steroid-fueled ability to hit taters made him a major leaguer.

Hey, if Dave Kingman could hang around as long as he did in the pre-steroid era, I don't see where this is much of an argument...

No, the argument is exactly the same. An ability to hit homers = a job in the majors. Kingman did it with a big uppercut swing; Canseco, by his very own admission, did it through use of steroids.

[Soulstation1]

when did schilling become the voice of MLB??

STFU and just pitch every 5 days

Edited May 9, 2007 by Soulstation1

[J Larsen]

Schilling has never liked bonds. He has publicly mocked him several times.