JohnBlutarski Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 these replies make me very curious about Medina, now... JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHill Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Simply, if you can find it for cheap, you'll not be disappointed. I have not seen if for sale used since it went out of print, but be patient, it will show up some day. Try not to pay $50+ for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcd74 Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I'd like to thank everybody for their opinion on Medina/Spiral. But you guys have really got me interested in the Total Eclipse album. That should be on the short list for an RVG and it seems that Hutcherson must be a popular seller for Blue Note because they keep releasing his stuff (RVG of Happenings, the Mosaic Select, etc...). It's funny that Components (one of the original Connoisseurs from 1994) is still available. Whereas some of his Connoisseurs released since then are now all oop (Medina/Spiral, Patterns, and The Kicker). Now since Stick Up is still available as a Connoisseur I think we'll have to wait for a while if it's RVG'd as well. Anyways I'm still looking for Medina/Spiral and now hoping for an RVG of Total Eclipse. I know there's another thread on the board that gives recommendations for RVG's and/or Connoisseurs. I guess I'll add this title to the wish list. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Try not to pay $50+ for it. Good advice for just about any decent album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I was lucky enough to pick up Patterns off of Ebay a couple of weeks ago for $25 but haven't got it in the mail yet. Really looking forward to it. As for Medina the last one on Ebay went for around $60 plus about a month ago. There hasn't been another one on since. On Amazon Canada the cheapest one is $70. On Amazon US the cheapest one is $50. And Amazon UK is 40 pounds. To get for $15-20 is a great deal. I guess I can dream. Todd Yes, you're starting to make me feel really lucky! I feel really, really lucky, then. I got mine in a cut-out bin at the music store across the street from where I work! I long ago became resigned to the fact that if I found a good album for ten cents somewhere, you'd tell me that you got it for free, and if I found a good album for free, you would then tell me, "Hey, some guy PAYED me to take it off his hands!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcd74 Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) Patterns cd now on ebay, buy it now for $69 US. Guess I got a good deal after all. Todd Edited June 14, 2007 by tcd74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Bought all of them when they came out. I love Hutcherson and Chambers together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Chambers and anyone is dandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeform83 Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) Here are my Bobby Hutcherson ratings: First Tier : Dialogue (65) -- The title track is one of my favorite pieces of recorded music, and Richard Davis' bass solos -- the quasi-Eastern-sounding thing with beautifully eerie backing from Hill -- among of my favorite single recorded moments. Words can't express... Components (65) -- I won't say I like this one better, but I will say it benefits greatly from its schizophrenic personality. Title track features what seems like Spaulding's archetpyical solo, and I love his avant-garde classical-inspired flute on "Movement." However, Hancock's organ interjections on "Air" might be even better! Happenings (66) -- "Bouquet" and "The Omen" are my favorites, but the whole album plays like an ideal piano/vibes quartet, encompassing every mood I could ask for with amazing musicianship all around. Plus a truly fantastic cover. Oblique (67) -- used to think of the above three as the Holy Trinity of 60s Hutcherson, but over the past year I have come to realize that this is so much more than an inferior sequel to Happenings, even if it touches a few of the same bases (advanced post-bop to serene ballads to Latin to modal Hancock cover to avant-garde). And Stinson is fascinating. Head On (71) -- I love this album! I am on the verge of starting a separate thread about it: The whole thing is utterly unlike anything else Bobby ever did, and I always found it ironic that after his initial inroads into more commercial material, he would make a one-shot return to record what is probably the most avant-garde album of his career. For starters, "Many Thousands Gone" includes the best marimba solo I have ever heard. Second Tier: Stick-Up (66) -- This is still very good, but some of the playing strikes me as unengaging compared to his other albums. I don't care as much for Hutch with McCoy Tyner, although I realize I am in the minority there. My favorite part is Henderson on "Verse." Patterns (68) -- Again, a great album, just not up there with what I consider his 5-star masterpieces. Love Spaulding's flute. I just wish the album as a whole pushed a little harder in terms of sheer sound; some tracks are too pleasant. Total Eclipse (68) -- "Pompeian" is another one of my all-time favorite tracks, perhaps my favorite thing he ever did, and also deserves a thread of its own. Perhaps the only reason I can't rate this higher is because none of the other tracks match its inventiveness. But both Hutch and Land are in top form throughout. Agree that it needs RVG treatment. Now! (69) -- Need to listen to this again. I remember being fascinated by some of the more experimental directions as well as the cultural context (remembering Paul Laurence Dunbar in the Civil Rights era), but was never quite sold on the concept. Live at Montreux (73) -- another one I need to hear again, but I do know that I really like Woody Shaw and Hutcherson together and both turn in some great solos. Third Tier: San Francisco (70) -- Too much of this brings to mind words like "cheesy" as the rock/soul/fusion hooks are weak and repetitive. I will say that "Procession" could sit comfortably on some of the previous records (if it's the track I'm thinking of), and there are other moments of interest. I need: The Medina/Spiral CD (69) Natural Illusions (72) -- can't be entirely without interest given its year and the line-up Cirrus (74) -- looks quite promising! Edited June 14, 2007 by freeform83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donald petersen Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 freeform, shalome. i do not necessarily agree with everything you say (have you heard "time for tyner" w. hutcherson? i think it is awesome). but overall, good rankings and commentary. thank you for posting this. i was curious where you would rank "the peace-maker" in this group. i know it is not a BN but it is a hutcherson/land collaboration and from the same time period. i would also rank "oblique" above "happenings" but these are your ratings so what the hell...respect. also you have some more seventies stuff to check out besides "cirrus", etc. "inner glow", "waiting" etc all have some worthwhile music on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) I concur with posts #33 and #34. The Hutcherson/Land quintet is one of the greatest small jazz groups ever. There's also a live date on JMY which is amazing, and some 'private shows' as well which I believe come from that site that can't be named. All great stuff. Bertrand. Edited June 14, 2007 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHill Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) It's funny that Components (one of the original Connoisseurs from 1994) is still available. Whereas some of his Connoisseurs released since then are now all oop (Medina/Spiral, Patterns, and The Kicker). Now since Stick Up is still available as a Connoisseur I think we'll have to wait for a while if it's RVG'd as well. Todd I think The Kicker is still in print. Edited June 14, 2007 by Holy Ghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeform83 Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 i was curious where you would rank "the peace-maker" in this group. i know it is not a BN but it is a hutcherson/land collaboration and from the same time period. i would also rank "oblique" above "happenings" but these are your ratings so what the hell...respect. also you have some more seventies stuff to check out besides "cirrus", etc. "inner glow", "waiting" etc all have some worthwhile music on them. Cool, what's your favorite track or part of OBLIQUE? I think HAPPENINGS and OBLIQUE are about equal. Makes me wish I were a producer who could reunite Hancock and Hutcherson and Chambers for one last quartet album that features both straightahead and avant-garde playing. I don't have THE PEACEMAKER , but I really want it. One other record I could throw in is Stanley Cowell's BRILLIANT CIRCLES, featuring both Hutch and Chambers pushing the post-bop boundaries in 1969 fashion. I consider this a classic and like it more than PATTERNS. (I assume MEDINA/SPIRAL is closer in tone to PATTERNS than BRILLIANT CIRCLES.) Other favorite sideman appearances: Grachan Moncur III's EVOLUTION (63) -- especially love his solo on the title track, where he hits the same note repeatedly and then goes out from there, while Tony Williams stops playing for a while Tony Williams' LIFE TIME (64) -- "Memory" anticipates aspects of "The Omen" but with greater restraint the Archie Shepp side of NEW THING AT NEWPORT (65) -- listen to how he changes his musical personality depending on the song THE NEW WAVE IN JAZZ (65) -- worth it to hear Grachan and Bobby on the 24-minute "The Intellect," which I love, although the drums can feel a little intrusive LET 'EM ROLL (65) by Big John Patton -- my favorite of his more straightforward, swinging-but-still-intelligent side, and it's great to hear him with organ What 70s album would you recommend most by Hutcherson? One reason I thought CIRRUS would be best is because it has both Woody Shaw and Harold Land (and a cover that looks a lot like HEAD ON). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:.impossible Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I like Medina/Spiral a lot. I like your list, haven't heard Head On. I'd put Medina/Spiral at the top of my list actually. It is a very straight up late-60s hard bop style date, as straight up as can be expected from Land, Hutch, Cowell, Chambers anyway... everyone really digs into the tunes. All in all, the two albums make a great two-fer because of the evenness of the sessions . The band maintains a certain level of intensity throughout that I don't hear on many of the sessions listed above. For the record, I am a huge admirer of Hutch's music during this era, but I feel like he had many near misses with regard to perfect album status. Almost there... when I first heard Medina/Spiral, I felt like this was the one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Blue Note Gods, please reissue Patterns and Total Eclipse. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 freeform, where would you put The Kicker? One of my favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Very nice Hutcherson site, note the album by album commentary: http://www.musicweb-international.com/jazz...erson/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeform83 Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) BruceH: I don't have THE KICKER yet and I must admit that I often forget it. I tend to think of DIALOGUE as Hutcherson's debut as a leader. Eric: Thanks for the link! I was unaware of that site and even found some things I didn't know about. I REALLY want to hear the 1970 Festival tracks mentioned in the discography, with Hutcherson credited for vibes, marimba, and percussion (I'm guessing maybe bells like he used on "Pompeiian" and "Prints Tie"?). if anyone has heard these compilation-only tracks, please comment. Next on my list is any late 60s/early 70s Harold Land I can find. (I have always found it strange that Hutcherson and Land appeared in the movie THEY SHOOT HORSES, DON'T THEY? in that they don't seem like obvious candidates for early 30s dance orchestra.) I cannot believe I left out what is probably the greatest (or at least my favorite) of Hutcherson's sideman appearances: Prince Lasha and Sonny Simmons' FIREBIRDS (67). As good as his solos are, his accompaniment may be even better -- an intriguing return to the EVOLUTION/OUT TO LUNCH piano-less approach. Edited June 14, 2007 by freeform83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHill Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I cannot believe I left out what is probably the greatest (or at least my favorite) of Hutcherson's sideman appearances: Prince Lasha and Sonny Simmons' FIREBIRDS (67). As good as his solos are, his accompaniment may be even better -- an intriguing return to the EVOLUTION/OUT TO LUNCH piano-less approach. I like your sideman list too, and agree that I like Hutch on all of the disks that you've mention. Have you checked out Hutch with McLean? Destination...Out! and One Step Beyond are killer disks. These are Jackie's pianoless albums w/ GM III on board as well. Action! recorded a year or so later is another favorite. Love the first two tracks. Out of these, One Step Beyond will be the hard one to track down, but its well worth it. Don't know if we'll ever see an RVG of this one, at least domestically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Have you checked out Hutch with McLean? Destination...Out! and One Step Beyond are killer disks. These are Jackie's pianoless albums w/ GM III on board as well. Action! recorded a year or so later is another favorite. Love the first two tracks. Out of these, One Step Beyond will be the hard one to track down, but its well worth it. Don't know if we'll ever see an RVG of this one, at least domestically. One reason to pick up the Grachan Moncur III Mosaic Select set. Albums included: ONE STEP BEYOND DESTINATION OUT EVOLUTION SOME OTHER STUFF HIPNOSIS 'BOUT SOUL ... of course Bobby is on 1/2 of these. BTW, "Action!" is in the (long OOP) Jackie McLean Mosaic box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I cannot believe I left out what is probably the greatest (or at least my favorite) of Hutcherson's sideman appearances: Prince Lasha and Sonny Simmons' FIREBIRDS (67). As good as his solos are, his accompaniment may be even better -- an intriguing return to the EVOLUTION/OUT TO LUNCH piano-less approach. I think I agree with you there. Fabulous playing by Hutch - and superbly recorded by Contemporary too. Another one well worth checking out from the late 60s vintage is Archie Shepp's 'On This Night'. More exploratory in style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHill Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Have you checked out Hutch with McLean? Destination...Out! and One Step Beyond are killer disks. These are Jackie's pianoless albums w/ GM III on board as well. Action! recorded a year or so later is another favorite. Love the first two tracks. Out of these, One Step Beyond will be the hard one to track down, but its well worth it. Don't know if we'll ever see an RVG of this one, at least domestically. One reason to pick up the Grachan Moncur III Mosaic Select set. Albums included: ONE STEP BEYOND DESTINATION OUT EVOLUTION SOME OTHER STUFF HIPNOSIS 'BOUT SOUL ... of course Bobby is on 1/2 of these. BTW, "Action!" is in the (long OOP) Jackie McLean Mosaic box. Good call. Hipnosis would be a sweet Conn, then I wouldn't have to buy this set just for that session Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I cannot believe I left out what is probably the greatest (or at least my favorite) of Hutcherson's sideman appearances: Prince Lasha and Sonny Simmons' FIREBIRDS (67). As good as his solos are, his accompaniment may be even better -- an intriguing return to the EVOLUTION/OUT TO LUNCH piano-less approach. This is indeed a classic; if it had been on BN it would be mentioned a lot more often. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHill Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I cannot believe I left out what is probably the greatest (or at least my favorite) of Hutcherson's sideman appearances: Prince Lasha and Sonny Simmons' FIREBIRDS (67). As good as his solos are, his accompaniment may be even better -- an intriguing return to the EVOLUTION/OUT TO LUNCH piano-less approach. This is indeed a classic; if it had been on BN it would be mentioned a lot more often. Guy Well luckily its still available and at mid-price....at least for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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