Big Beat Steve Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 Brownie, the pleasure was all mine (and I hope we can repat this in due course). As for how much more agreeable this forum was a couple of years ago, I don't know of course (as I dicovered this place not that long ago). But comparing it to other internet places, it does not fare that badly IMHO. Like I said, maybe I haven't read the threads in question (I don't nearly follow all of them around here) but still ... All in all I find Jim Alfredson's stance on this matter quite a healthy one. When things get extremely unpleasant the moderator has to intervene but it IS a thin line between enforcing mutual respect and stifling controversial debates to the point of making it all a bloodless bla-bla affair. And like Jim said, welcome to the world of the internet as far as saying things here you would not say to your "opponent" face to face. However, in this basic debate, please consider this: Have a look around at daily life as it is today: Isn't it a common enough experience to come across people that are ready and willing to screw you in a big way and get out the knife to stab in your back at any moment yet outwardly they are nothing but smiles and politeness - but oh my, behind that phony facade? I realize internet exchanges may be prone to insulting because you are not immediately taken to task but isn't it sometimes better under these circumstances to let off steam and NOT count your words (if only to make it clear to the other one he will NOT get away with his own attitude). Pretending everything is fine and then pulling strings behind the other's back to do him in good (it's all happened and can even happen via the internet) is far, far worse than the occasional direct, confrontational rudeness in the name of clarity. That said .. PEACE for now and why not back to the actual topic for those who still want to elaborate on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 I find that staying out of the ranting in the 'Politics' threads makes this forum a more pleasant place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 That said .. PEACE for now and why not back to the actual topic for those who still want to elaborate on it... Oh yeeeessss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregK Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 I find that staying out of the ranting in the 'Politics' threads makes this forum a more pleasant place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 Ah, but ever so much duller! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 Now, getting back to vinyl, don't tell me that U.S. vinyl production isn't made in China....it is, isn't it? I mean, lead, and all that kind of stuff? Seriously, 35 years ago, when I was ordering vinyl test pressings of 78 rpm discs from Columbia's Pitman plant, the quality was abominable and consistency so lacking that I had to order 3 copies of each side in the hope that one of them was usable. It wasn't the vinyl mix they used as much as a young work force's lack of respect/interest in a medium long since superseded. I wonder if the same might not apply to modern day production of vinyl LPs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 Seriously, 35 years ago, when I was ordering vinyl test pressings of 78 rpm discs from Columbia's Pitman plant, the quality was abominable and consistency so lacking that I had to order 3 copies of each side in the hope that one of them was usable. It wasn't the vinyl mix they used as much as a young work force's lack of respect/interest in a medium long since superseded. I wonder if the same might not apply to modern day production of vinyl LPs? Have I understood that right, Chris? You were making vinyl 78s in the early seventies? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 1, 2007 Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 No, I was producing reissues that were pressed on vinyl. The material originally appeared on 78 rpm discs, so I would order test pressings made from the original 78 rpm metal parts--these one-sided pressings were made on vinyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 (edited) "there actually is a lot of mudslinging and rudeness here, combined with some clinical self-righteousness. The perpetrators are highly valued by the community, however, and so all is deemed good with freedom of expression as a perfect hideout" who's hiding out? I've got my real name here, and would be happy to supply email, phone, cell phone, and address, as well as tax returns from the last 5 years and recent blood test results - it's quite amusing to read what Couw says in regard to this - when one looks at the actual posts, what he is saying is that nastiness is ok as long as he agrees with the side from which it is posted - but if it is done in the name of someone or something he does not like or agree with, than it is unfair and rude. I am assuming that I am one of those to whom he is referring with the above comments - truth is that I do react with anger sometimes, but the key word is REACT - I feel I have to say something when I am called a boob or full of shit, but I will not go there unless I am led there (lemmings have always been my favorite animal. Self destructive, perhaps, but in adherence to a certain inalienable principle) - one needs, as well, to understand the tone of my posts, which I must admit are frequently made with reference, at least tonally, to Lenny Bruce. These are times in which I regularly feel the generation gap. Edited December 3, 2007 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Couw's post did not mention you, but you are "assuming" that you are one of those he is referring to and then proceed to "react" by interpreting his post in a slightly ridiculing manner, which only serves to prove what we already knew: that you don't like couw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 B) I think I'd start a blog about Hoffman and his Gestapo tactics, and make sure my site stayed near the top of search engines. http://stereocentral.tv/phpbb/index.php Lots of really hateful, juvenile stuff here, but also some funny (and warranted) bitching, mostly about the moderators and some of the more zealous sycophants. And no, I don't post there. Personally, I like Steve and his work, but some of his followers are a bit wacky. I wish I knew someone on this Hoffman parody board. There is no way to contact them at all. Weird to have a forum without any way to contact the moderator, even via e-mail. If anyone knows a member there, drop me a pm here. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 That place was fascinating when I first discovered it... Then I realized it was just sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 This will be short. Maybe others can chime in. RTI has not disclosed the fact that they have been using terribly inferior vinyl. Hoffman board deleted a 100 post thread(not my post #101, the whole thread) when I called a spade a spade. They have betrayed my trust. At least in the 70's we were told. These guys did not say shit when they could not get good vinyl, but still charged $30+ an LP!!!!! Another complete thread at Hoffman's deleted when I said RTI was not up front and honest. WOW!! I knew the mods there were whack, but not this bad. LSS...the pressing QC totally butchered the lastest Hoffman re-masterings(which were great) of ZZTOP and James Taylor. So here it is... almost 5 months later and Analogue Productions has shipped the first of 50 Blue Note 45 rpm vinyl titles. Has RTI fixed their problems? Well, not according to the guys over on the Steve Hoffman forums! Scratched, make that gouged, records. Noisy. Labels falling off. Duplicate LPs (two disc 1's). Check out the LP surface in the photo someone took. The price for this high-quality LP? $50! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) Bring back 'Applause' pressings I've had one minor flaw on 4 Music Matters LPs which have so far been sent. MM have already sorted out a replacement for me. Edited March 25, 2008 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 - on the other hand I recently was unhappy to be called a "boob" by Jazzmouse, Glad I missed that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I've had one minor flaw on 4 Music Matters LPs which have so far been sent. MM have already sorted out a replacement for me. I understand that you like these pressings, but clearly that gouge in that picture is not a minor flaw and all of the problems people are having with these $50 pressings is bad for business. RTI has some serious issues that they do not seem willing to fix. If they keep it up, vinyl might disappear again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) Based on the reports on this site, looks to be more of a serious issue with the AP pressings than MM. The problem on one of my disks was a tiny score mark on the last track of one side, sounded for a couple of clicks only. No danger of vinyl disappearing anytime soon. More likely to be CDs.. ( I jest ) In fact just spinning the 'Speakin' My Piece'. A fine pressing, crystal clear (although probably unforgiving if your deck isn't up to it). Hopefully they can get the QC problems sorted out - particularly for the AP series (haven't heard any of these yet and don't subscribe). Edited March 25, 2008 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I've had one minor flaw on 4 Music Matters LPs which have so far been sent. MM have already sorted out a replacement for me. I understand that you like these pressings, but clearly that gouge in that picture is not a minor flaw and all of the problems people are having with these $50 pressings is bad for business. Jee-zus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I've had one minor flaw on 4 Music Matters LPs which have so far been sent. MM have already sorted out a replacement for me. I understand that you like these pressings, but clearly that gouge in that picture is not a minor flaw and all of the problems people are having with these $50 pressings is bad for business. Jee-zus. No kidding! Can you imagine how upset you'd be upon opening up an expensive LP purchase and finding that scratch? It's mind-boggling that RTI allowed that to leave their factory. Who would accept that? One of the worst things is that the buyers live all over the globe. There's someone saying that his Dexter Gordon LP arrived in Australia with scratches. Can you imagine the shipping charges for this screw up? Who "eats" this cost? Probably AP. How long can a little company like AP keep eating these additional costs? Maybe someone can ask the bean counters at Cisco Music. Oh, wait a minute, they exited this business - even though they had great pressings. And of course, the absolute worst thing about this is that it has killed the secondary market for sealed copies. I would only buy one of these from some place that accepts exchanges. I can't be the only person thinking this. This is really bad for the vinyl business. For someone like me who is only just dipping his toes back into the vinyl world, this brings back many horrible memories and reminds why I was in heaven when they introduced the CD. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Bring back 'Applause' pressings I've had one minor flaw on 4 Music Matters LPs which have so far been sent. MM have already sorted out a replacement for me. Listening to those folks, sounds like it's a bum stamper......but what I really don't get is the problem(s) with the gatefolds & glue. In this day & age how can something that basic be subject to error? I decided early on that I'd only spring for a dozen or so of the MM ones.....another week of reading that thread and I'm pulling the plug and cancelling all the pre-orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Agree with the above. I was considering "splurging" on a few of my favorite titles, but this latest debacle has made me even more cautious. I'm truly shocked that some of these examples left RTI. I've toured their facilities and seen first-hand the care they (seem to) take with their product. I understood that they even examined each disc by hand, but they obviously don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASNL77 Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) Based on the reports on this site, looks to be more of a serious issue with the AP pressings than MM. The problem on one of my disks was a tiny score mark on the last track of one side, sounded for a couple of clicks only. No danger of vinyl disappearing anytime soon. More likely to be CDs.. ( I jest ) In fact just spinning the 'Speakin' My Piece'. A fine pressing, crystal clear (although probably unforgiving if your deck isn't up to it). Hopefully they can get the QC problems sorted out - particularly for the AP series (haven't heard any of these yet and don't subscribe). Bob, I received my first two records today and the Jackie McLean has the same problem. (three clicks). Nothing major but a bit annoying for a record that costs $50. Howe were they with you? Did you have to argue the toss to get a replacement or was that done smoothly? Can't face a battle over two clicks... Edited March 25, 2008 by ASNL77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six string Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 This will be short. Maybe others can chime in. RTI has not disclosed the fact that they have been using terribly inferior vinyl. Hoffman board deleted a 100 post thread(not my post #101, the whole thread) when I called a spade a spade. They have betrayed my trust. At least in the 70's we were told. These guys did not say shit when they could not get good vinyl, but still charged $30+ an LP!!!!! Another complete thread at Hoffman's deleted when I said RTI was not up front and honest. WOW!! I knew the mods there were whack, but not this bad. LSS...the pressing QC totally butchered the lastest Hoffman re-masterings(which were great) of ZZTOP and James Taylor. So here it is... almost 5 months later and Analogue Productions has shipped the first of 50 Blue Note 45 rpm vinyl titles. Has RTI fixed their problems? Well, not according to the guys over on the Steve Hoffman forums! Scratched, make that gouged, records. Noisy. Labels falling off. Duplicate LPs (two disc 1's). Check out the LP surface in the photo someone took. The price for this high-quality LP? $50! Kevin With these kinds of issues going on with these reissue companies, I was surprised at the number of people on the Hoffman board that subscribed to the series. I don't have enough faith even if I wanted to buy all of them. So far, they haven't released anything that I have to have and I'm not that interestd in 45 rpm albums even if they do sound a little better than the 33 1/3 versions. I like good sound, but I'm not THAT obsessive about it. I will get Basra when they get around to releasing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) Bob, I received my first two records today and the Jackie McLean has the same problem. (three clicks). Nothing major but a bit annoying for a record that costs $50. Howe were they with you? Did you have to argue the toss to get a replacement or was that done smoothly? Can't face a battle over two clicks... Oh heck, sorry to hear that. Which McLean title is that? - 'Bluesnik' on Music Matters is not due until next month so I guess that must be the 'Capuchin Swing' on AP? I don't have any of the APs so can't comment on them (have a fairly good original of 'Capuchin' so not tempted with that one). The Music Matters titles I have are the Blakey 'Big Beat', 'Parlan, Kenny Drew and Donaldson 'LD + 3'. The only problem has been the flaw on one side of the Drew and Music Matters have said they have put a replacement to one side to send out with my next batch. They were very helpful when I mentioned the problem. There's been a bit of 'ungluing' of one of the covers too but I can live with that, especially with the nice foldout with the Francis Wolff photos in there. What a shame. If these QC issues were picked up at source they would have an exceptional product. Hopefully it will get there. Edited March 26, 2008 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) For someone like me who is only just dipping his toes back into the vinyl world, this brings back many horrible memories and reminds why I was in heaven when they introduced the CD. Kevin Hang on in there with the vinyl. Some 'snap crackle and pop' is a fact of life, although totally agree that gouges are a no-no. The right LP on the right system is nirvana - trust me I've added a powered phono stage this week which raises things to another level and brings out an incredible richness in the sound. To get that on CD (not sure it's possible) would likely cost a King's ransom. Edited March 26, 2008 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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