Alexander's Marriage Woes

[Alexander]

Well, my wife dropped the bomb today. She's filing for a separation. Not quite sure where to go from here. At the moment, I'm out of work (budget cuts in my discrict), so obviously I'm not going to be able to move out for a while. She and I have been down this road a couple of times before, but she's adamant that she means it this time (and I believe her). Any advice from more experienced folks on this matter? What's the best way to handle this? How can we best protect our daughter from any negative fallout? I don't think that this will be a particularly nasty separation/divorce. I still love Stacy and I respect her feelings. I understand that the problem is me and that a separation may well be the best thing for us (I have asked that we try some counciling during the intervening period before I move out, if only so that we may learn the best way to deal with this as a family). The fact is that, marriage licence or no, we will ALWAYS be a family, just a different kind of family. When we were contemplating divorce about a year ago, we broke the news to my daughter who was just distraught. We've agreed that we're not going to discuss it with her again until the plans are firm.

Any advice from someone who's been there?

[marcello]

Sad news, Alexander.

My advice is to do what's best for your daughter, no matter how much crow you have to eat.

You'll be a better man and father for it, and I know it will be hard, but always keep that in mind before you so or say anything.

[jazzbo]

I'll echo Marcello's sound words. I don't have any direct experience to offer. . . . Hope all goes as well as it can.

[papsrus]

Well, my wife dropped the bomb today. She's filing for a separation. Not quite sure where to go from here. At the moment, I'm out of work (budget cuts in my discrict), so obviously I'm not going to be able to move out for a while. She and I have been down this road a couple of times before, but she's adamant that she means it this time (and I believe her). Any advice from more experienced folks on this matter? What's the best way to handle this? How can we best protect our daughter from any negative fallout? I don't think that this will be a particularly nasty separation/divorce. I still love Stacy and I respect her feelings. I understand that the problem is me and that a separation may well be the best thing for us (I have asked that we try some counciling during the intervening period before I move out, if only so that we may learn the best way to deal with this as a family). The fact is that, marriage licence or no, we will ALWAYS be a family, just a different kind of family. When we were contemplating divorce about a year ago, we broke the news to my daughter who was just distraught. We've agreed that we're not going to discuss it with her again until the plans are firm.

Any advice from someone who's been there?

First off, I'm sorry. I just went through a divorce but no children involved. (I'm much, much happier now. There is an upside).

Secondly, it is not your fault. People grow apart. There's a million reasons why. Only you know your reasons.

I have read a bit about children in divorces (for another reason) and one of the main things is that children often feel responsible in some way for the divorce. You have to make sure that they realize they aren't responsible. That you and your wife will always be their father and mother, etc. ... There's a book on amazon, FWIW, titled "Helping Your Kids Cope With Divorce the Sandcastle Way" that is supposed to be a good resource for dealing with children in divorce. I haven't read it but everyone else in the country seems to have. Might want to check it out.

Lastly, don't go to match.com right away, it'll only make you extremely depressed.

You'll work your way through it and come out the other side OK. Better off, in many ways.

Good that you're talking it out here, anyways.

[catesta]

Move out as soon as you can and speed the divorce process along as fast as you can.

Otherwise, it will drag on, get emotional (and not in a good way), and the healing process will take all that much longer.

It is possible to remain friends and continue to share parts of your life together, it just takes some work and it's never the same.

This is of course only my opinion.

Children were not part of my divorce so I didn't have that to deal with.

[BERIGAN]

Sorry to hear about this Alexander! Don't have any experience in this sort of matter, but I wish you and your family the best. Your thoughts about counciling are interesting.....seems it could be a help if or if not you two stay together.

[Christiern]

There were no children involved in my divorce, which actually turned out to be more successful than our marriage. As for the child's perspective, I was a child for two of my mother's 3 divorces and the first one (my father) was no problem (I was too young), the second one was tough (I was 10), but I was more upset with my mother than I was with her husband (we kept in touch). The third divorce was actually applauded by me (I was a teenager).

I get the impression that you and your wife are handling this in a very mature, sensible manner. That should make it a lot easier on your daughter and I think it is extremely important that you all maintain a bond. Eventually, it will be easier when new people enter the situation. Just my 2¢, this sort of thing is always unpleasant, but an attitude of reason can make it less so.

[Chuck Nessa]

All the best. I really hope involved parties survive with minimal damage. You need to work on that without denying yourself. Not an easy thing to do.

[Tim McG]

I am very sorry to hear this, Alexander.

Having been divorced myself and the guy who filed, I don't know what to offer you in the way of sage advice other than you'll get through this.

And as was said before, do right by your daughter....at this point, she is all what really matters.

Go easy my friend.

[Aggie87]

Agree with Paps' and catesta's advice.

If you do go ahead with the divorce, it's important for your daughter to understand that she's not the cause or at fault in any way. When we got our divorce four years ago, I talked with both of my kids about it quite a bit (as did their mother). My daughter was 6 at the time, and had a difficult time at first. My son was much younger (3), so it didn't seem to affect him as much.

We have 50/50 custody, where the kids live with me for a week, then their mother, and back and forth. Luckily we live close enough to make that feasible with schooling, activities, etc. If you're able to do something like that, I strongly urge you to consider it. Your daughter will get to spend an equal amount of time with both of you, and will realize that you both do love her. My kids understand our situation better now, and are accepting of their situation. They are able to have the same friends come over to either home, and have alot of friends with divorced parents as well, which I think makes it easier to deal with for them.

Catesta is right that if you are going to ultimately get divorced, it's probably better to go forward and not drag things out. You will be happy again, whether that's something you can see now or not.

Take care.

[J.A.W.]

Move out as soon as you can and speed the divorce process along as fast as you can.

Good advice, and I'm speaking from personal experience - we weren't married, but my girlfriend and I "officially" lived together; once we had signed the separation papers and she had moved out, things improved fast.

Take care.

Edited August 25, 2008 by J.A.W.

[Neal Pomea]

Bummer! Good luck with this!

[Dan Gould]

Alexander, I'm sorry to hear this and hope that whatever happens ends up for the best for all concerned.

But I'm a little confused as to the point of "filing for separation" if you are unable at this point to move out and afford your own place. What changes, legally, after this is done?

As to the seemingly popular advice of treating your marriage like its a band-aid and that it should be ripped off as quickly as possible, I'd recommend the opposite. Don't make decisions rashly, and don't assume the final outcome. I think the most important thing is getting into therapy and finding out for sure what the state of your relationship is and whether the marriage can be salvaged.

[kenny weir]

Been there, done that - with a kid involved, too.

My first advice is to ditch this kind of crap thinking:

I understand that the problem is me

That's not to say I presume you're without your faults in terms of your relationship.

And yes, you will remain a family of a kind. For me it's working OK.

But I reckon it's fair to say that in the early days/months/years, you will be in a kind of war.

Not a war for child custody or over material goods, but a war for whose interpretation of reality is going hold sway.

In my case, a few years down the road apiece, my ex's most firmly, angrily held beliefs about MY total culpability have proven to be an illusion, if not delusional.

No doubt we're all three of us better off for the split, but the given rationals for her initiating it look pretty lame these days - something with which, on her more candid days, she concurs.

In short, for her getting rid of Kenny was NOT a fast-track to nirvana.

Sure, do whatever you need to make it a smooth ride, especially for your daughter.

But don't take too much crap - or let HER version of how it is become The Reality. Letting her do so could lead to all sorts of unhealthy ramifications for all and sundry, health-wise in a spiritual, physical and emotional sense.

Without knowing the details of your situation - and not wanting to! - I know enough to presume there's plenty of blame to go around.

Finally, talk - to buddys, counsellors, whatever. And I know it's frowned upon, but getting hammered a time or two can be a fine release. Just don't go TOO far down that road. Like maybe a block ... just saying.

[Aggie87]

As to the seemingly popular advice of treating your marriage like its a band-aid and that it should be ripped off as quickly as possible, I'd recommend the opposite. Don't make decisions rashly

By all means, don't make rash decisions. I don't think anybody in this thread has recommended doing so.

My point was once you've made a decision to get a divorce, don't dawdle. Our decision to get divorced occurred in late 2002 or early 2003 while living in Germany. We didn't return to Texas until Nov 2003 (for a couple of reasons), and the divorce wasn't final until May 2004.

In our case that was too long to remain together under one roof, and things happened to make our relationship worse than it already was during that time, not by my doing.

[J.A.W.]

As to the seemingly popular advice of treating your marriage like its a band-aid and that it should be ripped off as quickly as possible, I'd recommend the opposite. Don't make decisions rashly

By all means, don't make rash decisions. I don't think anybody in this thread has recommended doing so.

My point was once you've made a decision to get a divorce, don't dawdle.

Exactly; I totally agree.

Edited August 25, 2008 by J.A.W.

[sjarrell]

Sorry to hear. I hope it's as painless as possible for everyone.

[Alexander]

Thank you all SO much for your comments. As you can well imagine, it feels a little lonely over in Alexander-land right now.

I know that it's not ALL me. But it is ME that my wife is currently having a difficult time living with. Not that I'm evil or malicious, but rather that my formerly adorable quirks don't seem too adorable at the moment. Or, as my wife put it today, "The things you know and understand, you're a GENIUS at. The things you don't know or understand, you're HOPELESS with." Of course, this is nothing new, but (as somebody mentioned earlier in the thread) people grow apart. The things that are important to me aren't so important to her, and the things that are important to her aren't as important to me (not to say that I have NO interest, but - for example - I'm the kind of guy who could live quite happily his whole life and never buy a house. My wife wants a house very badly. I would never actively try to discourage buying a house (not that we can even afford one right now), but the fact that I'm not burning with the same desire to own one that she is bothers her. A lot). In the final analysis, what I want is for everybody to be happy, or at least content. I know I'm not going to be happy without her, but I also know that in time I will be able to be content again. I know that my daughter won't be happy, but if I make sure that I stay in her life, she'll eventually adapt. If Stacy isn't happy with me, I can't ask her to make herself happy. The best I can hope for is an eventual outcome that will cause the least damage and pain to all three of us.

And finally, I don't get the whole "legally separated and still living together thing," either. I've asked her to put if off until I move out (although that may take some time), but I think she's afraid that if she doesn't do it NOW she'll get cold feet and not do it later on down the line.

It's tough though, you know? The last time I was single, I was eighteen-years-old. Now I'm almost thirty-eight. That's twenty years, man. I've been with Stacy for longer than I was alive WITHOUT her!

[kenny weir]

The best I can hope for is an eventual outcome that will cause the least damage and pain to all three of us.

In my (vivid) experience: Two relatively content homes are far superior to a single unhappy one.

Man, I hear you on the house stuff - that was part of our deal, too. A house is not a home - but I bet there's absolutely no telling her THAT right about now

[Dan Gould]

It seems to me that ideally, the things you are hopeless with are the things she handles - makes for a strong team. Kind of like my wife and her mechanical aptitude. I also wonder about the whole "you don't care if we buy a house" difference. That to me is the kind of the thing that you compromise on if it becomes financially feasible to purchase. I wasn't gung ho about buying a house and was used to apartment living; my wife wanted a house and then out of the blue her aunt gave us $10000 towards a down payment, and before I knew it, we were officially house-hunting, and about two months later we had a contract. Growing apart is one thing, but if you are being honest that you wouldn't actively discourage buying a home, what is the problem? Why is this such a big thing to her, if its not even feasible, and you aren't drawing a line in the sand over it anyway? There must be other things going on, deeper conflicts or differences.

[RDK]

Sorry to hear this, Alexander. Can't offer any practical help other than that mentioned above; just my support and sympathy. At least it sounds like the acrimony is at a minimum.

[JSngry]

First of all, I too am very sorry to hear about this & hope that whatever the eventual resoluiton is, it is as clean as possible for all concened.

Now, as far as the house thing, and what the implications might be...

Never, never underestimate the power of the "nesting instinct" in many women. This is not an attempt at sexism or rigid role definitions either. It's simply a realization of the yin-yang balances in life. There's a reason why we've evolved into the "nuclear family", and it's not because of any dominant male impulse for stability of home & mate, dig?

Brenda & I went round & round with this "domesticity" issue more than a few times, sometimes quite seriously so. Now, she's a strong, smart woman who's always had a "good career". But she needs her home to be in order, and there were times when she didn't have the time to make it happen, and when I, not feeling any particular urgency about the matter, didn't really give a rat's ass. When she complained about it, I took the "hey, I'll get it done, chill out" attitude, not realizing that this was not just offensive to her personally, but also a denial of a need that she had that sprung from an impulse deep within. To me, it was just a pile of dirty dishes, some newspapers piled up, and some laundry that needed doing. To her, it was her a profaning of her home, the place where her loved ones lived and were nurtured, and if she couldn't always get it done herself, and if I didn't respect our home and her enough to male at least some token efforts to asist her, then it was like her "nest" was being held captive by predatory forces, not occupied by loved ones. And when I positioned her as simply being anal about it, I was actually denigrating one of her most primal impulses - the impulse to keep her "nest" safe and positive. She felt that her most sacred territory - her nest - was under attack, and that not only could I not be counted on to defend it, I could not be counted on to not be one of the attackers. Once I realized what was really going on here, I felt like a total asshole, idiot, and barbarian, all towards the woman I claimed to be my soulmate. Pretty hard to be more wrong than that...

I'm still nowhere near as focused on domestic order as she'd probably like, but at least now I understand what it really means to her, and I try, really try, to do my best to show her my love and respect by doing things that will show love & respect to her in her "language". It wasn't so much that we had grown apart as it was that we were failing to grow together, learning each other's "language of love" and how to communicate to each other thusly. We had a few "moments of truth" along the way, believe me, one of them particularly terrifying, but we held on and finally saw that it's almost impossible for two to become one if the two never allow themselves to surrender themselves to the other in ways that are at first strange, or maybe even uncomfortable.

It may be that your wife is sending you signals that her "nest" is not feeling particularly safe or secure right now, and that she's feeling the need for more of that. I'm not saying that you should reflexively give in to all that, just that if this is the woman you still feel is your soul mate, and if she still feels the same about you at some level, that there might be some benefit in exploring all this in counseling, and that if it's not impossible at this point, that you both might be able to better understand each other on a more "primal", instinctual level. Trust me when I tell you that even the most open-minded & intelligent people can overlook some pretty key things in this regard.

If it works, great. If not, you gave it your one last, best shot. No shame there. But to sever a bond like the two of you appear to have had is not something to be done w/o both of you digging waaaay deep to find everybody's bottom line.

Good luck, and blessings for all of you. in whatever form you perceive them to come.

Edited August 25, 2008 by JSngry

[connoisseur series500]

Sorry to read about the awful news, Alex. I cannot offer any advice coming from experience as I am still married. We've had our ups and downs, but we've lasted.

I think you are a good guy, so don't beat yourself up over this. We've got a tough economy in this country right now, and I know it takes its toll on marriages. I really believe that financial issues have a major effect on marriage.

I guess just let your wife and daughter know that you support them no matter what happens. What else can we do?

Sorry, sorry, again.

[Jazzmoose]

...my formerly adorable quirks don't seem too adorable at the moment.

Man, that sure sounds familiar!

I'd love to offer advice, but I didn't have the complications of a child, and that most definitely changes everything. The only experience I have in that sort of thing was as the child, and all I can say is that whenever you find someone knew, you better make damned sure they understand that your daughter is going to be part of your life no matter what and they just have to deal with it. Of course, that has nothing to do with your present situation...

I have to wonder about your comment about there being something about this board, though. Are we just a bunch of losers, or is life just like this these days? Sorry...I forgot; I'm supposed to have moved past depression to anger...

[connoisseur series500]

Nothing unusual about the board, Moose. Divorce stats in this country are astronomical. It seems that unsundered marriages are now the exception.