Jazz Vinyl Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I recently read a post where the user claimed to own every major Miles Davis recording. Intrigued I looked at the user profile and determined his age was 22, he had been collecting CD's since he was 19. When I was 22 (pre-CD, MP3,etc), owning every Miles Davis recording would have been quite a feat requiring not only money but deep dedication, endless hours, much gas and timely luck...just to be in the right place at the right time with the right money. Pre-CD, when you saw a shelf of Miles spines you knew a serious committed collector was on the other end who likely spent decades crafting his collection. The owner could likely spin tales of piecing together the collection and could lament about great once-in-a-life time purchasing opportunities that got away. Now a kid with dad's Amazon account number can order up the Miles Davis complete catalog and be a completist with 1 click shopping. I guess any Miles completist is a good thing, but curious, do you really value owning CD's? Can you really strut around a party crowing you own John Coltrane's Giant Steps on CD? Does format matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I guess any Miles completist is a good thing, but curious, do you really value owning CD's? Yes. Though these days I prefer downloads. Can you really strut around a party crowing you own John Coltrane's Giant Steps on CD? No more than I'd strut around a party crowing about owning Giant Steps on vinyl (or cylinder disc!). Does format matter? It might as a matter of individual preference. But most arguments I read for one over another tend to stack up the evidence on the side of the favoured format, discounting the equal claims of the rival formats. I find downloads easier to access and good quality; I still buy CDs where I can't get a download. I gave up on vinyl a long time ago. As for having the complete works of Miles by the age of 22...well, that would take some absorbing! I bought my first Miles at 21 and am still far from complete at 55. I'm glad I was able to take it in over that timescale - much of the el;ectric years made no sense for the first 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Owning is easy. Listening to, learning about, and coming to know music will take a lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) Something's gained and something's lost in the easy availability today (of recordings and of discographical info). I remember the anticipation of getting my paycheck and going to Third Street Jazz twice a month back in the 70's, looking to see what treasures I never knew had existed, either because they were new releases, or because Jerry Gordon had again performed his magic and found another stash of some long-discontinued title in a warehouse somewhere on the east coast. I'd head home with my three or four new titles and be thrilled. Today, the amount of music coming in and out of my house can be numbing. I have a job where I can listen to music most of the day, so I can process it and keep learning. Will need to have a massive sell-off if I ever get to retire, because I'll never have time to listen like this again. Edited June 25, 2010 by felser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Owning is easy. Listening to, learning about, and coming to know music will take a lifetime. That is the primary reason why writing about music is so difficult. The written word isn't "gone, in the air" but thoughts about the musical experience will change over time. Another topic, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Owning is easy. Listening to, learning about, and coming to know music will take a lifetime. Wise man. Not many time ago I looked at my collection and suddenly realized I'll not have enough time to really 'know' all that music, unless I'll die at 150 year old or later. I gave up my compulsive habits, (well some of them, I still drink wine, drive fast motorbike and gaze at women, not when I'm driving...) Now and then malaria's fever get me, so I spent some bucks on quinine, vinyl-pack, and that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Damn, I'm going to have to learn how not to look at beautiful women when I'm driving. As for the question at hand. . . format doesn't matter to me, I've dedicated myself to cds BECAUSE of the insane availability of titles over hte last two decades and more. I have way too many recordings and won't apologize for it. It makes me happy, I learn a lot and enjoy. It is what it is. As for bragging rights? I don't brag about my collection. I don't apologize for it. A handful of people KNOW about it really, have seen it in person. I'm not sure exactly how they look at me because of it. I think they'd probably tell YOU I'm a little crazy. Me, they might say "Cool!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Christensen Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I agree completly with Lon, just my felings, even if I am retired and have so much that I just can't find time to listen to, and I am still buying. My collection is not so big as some of your guys is, but big enough (2150 CD's and 400 LP's) Just my 2 cents. Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) Damn, I'm going to have to learn how not to look at beautiful women when I'm driving. Well I can assure you that when you destroyed a brand new BMW R80 GS on a rear of a car, like I did, because of a charming brunette, along the coast drive, you definitely learn it. Edited June 25, 2010 by porcy62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rostasi Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 ...I guess any Miles completist is a good thing, but curious, do you really value owning CD's? Can you really strut around a party crowing you own John Coltrane's Giant Steps on CD? Does format matter? I can agree with much of what you're saying, but I think the premise is strangely skewed. A young guy owning Miles, or Trane in one fell swoop is easy these days because these musicians are relegated to "classic" status and therefore recordings are boxed and released. So using Miles or Trane as examples has little bearing on the inherent question. Do we have jazz artists around today who can get a guy in high school, for instance, so excited that he's anxiously waiting for that next release to come out - buying it in whatever form he chooses? ...and then just continues until, one day, he realizes that he has 50 releases from this particular artist and now he's been branded as a collector? For me, and for some people that I hang around with, the interest in collecting is no longer LP vs CD vs some other format, but rather the limited edition item usually with some kind of special packaging. Kinda been this way for a long time: even the early 80's when your formats were mostly just singles, LPs and K7s. I don't see this special packaging very often with new jazz releases - maybe some special European labels - but more with experimental music releases. For a good number of people, there's a definite move away from - even a near avoidance of - major label product in favor of the specialty item no matter what format it comes in, so I think the format idea is much less valid these days (unless you're into DJing and you want to work the tables with wax). Now, it's possible to buy a hybrid CD which you can flip over and play on your turntable. It has grooves on the other side and it's essentially a 5" single. Can't say how long that will last, but that's on someone's list of collectible items without resorting to complete collections of anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 Owning is easy. Listening to, learning about, and coming to know music will take a lifetime. That's a great point. When I find things I have an interest in, or have been curious about, and they're at a great price, I snap them up, even if they're then relegated to the tall stack of things I haven't yet listened to. If I have them, I know I can. And with iTunes shuffle, I may indeed listen to a track or two at a time, sometimes with interesting juxtapositions. As for the 22 year old with the complete Miles, 1) There was no complete Miles when I was 22. Many titles, even on Columbia, were unavailable. 2) Yes, he may have the money (or his parents' money, or maybe it was an Xmas gift). But it would cost far far far less money than when I was 22, even accounting for inflation. I'm assuming he's referring to the Complete Columbia Album Collection. It's currently $328.49 on Amazon, and it's 71 discs. That's $4.62 per disc. Even with the occasional Kind of Blue Nice Price @ $3.99, on the whole that collection would've cost a lot more on vinyl. And he probably does boast about it at parties. Whether anyone's impressed is another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 Forget the Miles albums you had and the ones you were missing: What about the artists for whom it was a huge challenge to even know who they were, let alone own all of their music? The mystery and challenge of the hunt is gone. You see a Youtube video of the Wallace Collection, you go on Amazon, order a used copy of their album for $6.72, all in a matter of minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rostasi Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 But isn't hunting all tied in with ownership? Is it not enough to rejoice in actually being able to hear a release that you'd been searching for and finally found - rather quickly - online? If you're wanting to hear a new artist that people you respect are raving about, I can't see the good in spending precious years of your life trying to hunt it down and then get all warm and cushy cause you've scored a big one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nelson Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 The Hunt and The Search are about the process of scratching and crate-digging. While the Holy Grail might take years to acquire, along the way there's too many tangential, sideways artists to be discovered. These aren't names you were handed to type into a database -- they just appeared in a crate. And now you've got to read liner notes -- and suss 'em out before buying at the register. It forces you to STRETCH and use your instincts. As far as I'm concerned, I don't HAVE TO GET that Holy Grail. It's more fun finding stuff unexpectedly, accidentally, and serendipitously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 A few things here - When I was 22, owning the complete Miles would have meant owning Jazz Track. and...good luck on that one. Even today, good luck on finding that one. The album, not the music.When I was 22, it was 1977, and a big bunch of the complete Miles hadn't even been recorded yet. So you'd have had to wait. The curse of an early birth.Hell, in 1977, nobody knew if there would be any more Miles or not.However, in 1977, other than Jazz Track, I can't think of any actual Miles albums that were hard to find. Some of the early Columbia sideman/project dates, yeah, those were tough. But actual albums, they were all out and in print. Captiol, BN, Prestige (once the 24000 series started, before that, not so much) & Columbia. So you could have the complete Miles up to that point, and...a few people did, people did, and it wasn't that big a deal, although the Prestige date w/Al Cohn...most people didn't feel particularly compelled to pick up on that one, especially with that ugly-ass yellow cover it was in back then. But truthfully, the only shit that most people cared about was the stuff w/Trane & the stuff w/Tony & George. And the electric stuff, for those who dug it. Everything else was like "eh, who cares now?" for a lot of people I knew in 1977.Bragging about owning Giant Steps? When I was 22, and where I was when I was 22, you'd be ashamed not to own it. I know guys who bought it just to not be ashamed. Seriously. Motherfuckers would own Buddy Rich and Return To Forever Records out the ass, but the one "real jazz" record they would own would be Giant Steps. And they'd let you know they had it, too, just so you'd not get the wrong idea! When I was 22, I used to walk to school in a bicycle tire through six feet of pouring weeds. And I didn't dare complain about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 Owning is easy. Listening to, learning about, and coming to know music will take a lifetime. As for the 22 year old with the complete Miles, 1) There was no complete Miles when I was 22. Many titles, even on Columbia, were unavailable. There was no complete Miles when I was 22 because he still had another ten years of record making ahead of him! I like the relatively easy availability of so much music - I can investigate it when I'm ready, not when a record company chooses to issue it. I agree with those above who suggest that hunting for the performers you don't know (or don't yet know you don't know) can be just as thrilling as tracking down the 'classic' album. What is more, to my ears, there is still plenty of excellent new music being made (not just jazz) so the joys of new discovery are still there. As for our 22 year old Miles completist - a bit sad at that early an age he'd become obsessed with collrecting the music of the past. Here's hoping he has contemporary curiosity too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 I'm a committed CD personage. I held them at bay for the first 10 years, but since then, I'm with Jazzbo: The sheer joy of finding stuff I've never heard or just plain never heard of, plus catching up on old favourites from various times from my back pages - it's great! I harbour no competitive or resentful feelings towards vinyl freaks and fans - good luck to them! But still, the very premise of this thread - "Collecting......records vs CDs" is in itself an absurdity. All said with the usual "IMHO" proviso. CDs ARE records. Newspapers are records. Photo albums are records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 (edited) A few things here - [*]When I was 22, owning the complete Miles would have meant owning Jazz Track. and...good luck on that one. Never saw a copy of that one in the UK until the last few years. It was one of the more recent Miles LPs I got - a 2-eye pressing. Back in the 70s Miles albums were always around but you were pretty well limited to his more recent releases, the RCA 24000 series twofers and Italian imports of some of the 60s CBS titles. 'Birth Of The Cool' was always available on UK Capitol though. The material with Trane was always pretty well available - and popular. 'On The Corner' was a total pariah. Then Prestige came out with that big 'Chronicle' box (which put to rest the Miles/Al Cohn completists ) and CBS (Teo) put out nice material on the 'Directions' and 'Circle In The Round' sets and those 'Water Babies' and 'Jazz at the Plaza' LPs. I snapped them up eagerly when they came out. The Sony 71CD + DVD big box would have been a total wet dream fetish back then Did this 22 year old collector have the French issue of 'Isle of Wight' or a quadraphonic 'Bitches Brew'? Edited June 26, 2010 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 A few things here - When I was 22, owning the complete Miles would have meant owning Jazz Track. and...good luck on that one. Even today, good luck on finding that one. The album, not the music.When I was 22, it was 1977, and a big bunch of the complete Miles hadn't even been recorded yet. So you'd have had to wait. The curse of an early birth.Hell, in 1977, nobody knew if there would be any more Miles or not.However, in 1977, other than Jazz Track, I can't think of any actual Miles albums that were hard to find. Some of the early Columbia sideman/project dates, yeah, those were tough. But actual albums, they were all out and in print. Captiol, BN, Prestige (once the 24000 series started, before that, not so much) & Columbia. So you could have the complete Miles up to that point, and...a few people did, people did, and it wasn't that big a deal, although the Prestige date w/Al Cohn...most people didn't feel particularly compelled to pick up on that one, especially with that ugly-ass yellow cover it was in back then. But truthfully, the only shit that most people cared about was the stuff w/Trane & the stuff w/Tony & George. And the electric stuff, for those who dug it. Everything else was like "eh, who cares now?" for a lot of people I knew in 1977.Bragging about owning Giant Steps? When I was 22, and where I was when I was 22, you'd be ashamed not to own it. I know guys who bought it just to not be ashamed. Seriously. Motherfuckers would own Buddy Rich and Return To Forever Records out the ass, but the one "real jazz" record they would own would be Giant Steps. And they'd let you know they had it, too, just so you'd not get the wrong idea! When I was 22, I used to walk to school in a bicycle tire through six feet of pouring weeds. And I didn't dare complain about it. They say that if you can remember the 70s (or is it the 60s?) then you weren't there . Me, I have trouble remembering yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 (edited) Back in the 70s Miles albums were always around but you were pretty well limited to his more recent releases, the RCA 24000 series twofers and Italian imports of some of the 60s CBS titles. 'Birth Of The Cool' was always available on UK Capitol though. The material with Trane was always pretty well available - and popular. 'On The Corner' was a total pariah. Then Prestige came out with that big 'Chronicle' box (which put to rest the Miles/Al Cohn completists ) and CBS (Teo) put out nice material on the 'Directions' and 'Circle In The Round' sets and those 'Water Babies' and 'Jazz at the Plaza' LPs. I snapped them up eagerly when they came out. I recall seeing the 70s albums emerge though I had little jazz interest then - 'On the Corner' I do remember seeing. By the time I got interested (1976+) Miles was in his hiatus. Things like 'Kind of Blue', 'Sketches' etc were around but most of the 60s stuff had vanished as domnestic UK releases. I bought things like 'Miles Smiles', 'My Funny Valentine' and 'Someday My Prince Will Come' on import copies from Mole. The Blackhawk records I bought in Belgium! There always seemed to be far more jazz available on the continent. One series I do recall having a big impact were those Prestige/Riverside twofers (pre-Fantasyland!). I had the ones that put together most of the first Quintet and some of the early/mid 50s records at a modest price. Loved those - lots of music, detailed liner notes etc. Edited June 26, 2010 by Bev Stapleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 (edited) One series I do recall having a big impact were those Prestige/Riverside twofers (pre-Fantasyland!). I had the ones that put together most of the first Quintet and some of the early/mid 50s records at a modest price. Loved those - lots of music, detailed liner notes etc. Still got plenty of those - they sound damn good. With their 'Specially Priced 2LP set - £2.99' stickers on the front. They were a good deal, even back then. The first Sonny Rollins twofer was the first one I received (as a gift - and what a GREAT gift). Yes, the liner notes were very good - by the likes of Ira Gitler and Dan Morgenstern. State-of-the-art, pre Mosaic booklet. Edited June 26, 2010 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 26, 2010 Report Share Posted June 26, 2010 Did this 22 year old collector have the French issue of 'Isle of Wight' or a quadraphonic 'Bitches Brew'? Was there such a thing? The only US version of it was as a short snippet on a compilations of various performances from the festival. Never did quad, but actually, BB was the first Miles album I owned, bought it in the fall of 1972 after hearing it that summer at the home of one of my dad's army buddies in Louisville, Kentucky, whom we were visiting. The guy didn't have it, his sons did. On 8-track! In the basement_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
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