WTF? Why was the "Elvis Thread" locked?

[Peter Johnson]

That thread was one of the most interesting, educational, and enlightening (as to the music discussed and to the perspectives of fellow members) I've seen around here in years. One of the moderators thought "everything to be said had been said" [paraphrase mine]? Bullshit. It was a DISCUSSION.

This moderation is getting out of hand.

[AllenLowe]

I agree - incredibly stupid thing

maybe we should start another

[Big Beat Steve]

Touchy souls, you know, Peter ....

But you know, why not just enjoy the music you LIKE to enjoy for WHAT IT IS WORTH TO YOU and for WHAT IT SET OUT TO BE, not for what one would like to project into it (with the benefit - or curse? - of hindsight)?

That would be a healthy attitude throughout, IMHO.

Bye for now ...

[Peter Johnson]

Please do, for my edification. But in the right category--which this, in my blind indignation, is not (apologies to the MODERATORS).

[Dan Gould]

I completely agree with Peter and was tempted, when Hans posted that message, that it was an example of what I have long thought is his tendency to be heavy-handed, or to step in where there is no reason to at all. I didn't post that message because I kept in mind that Hans hadn't locked the thread.

Seeing that it is locked, without even an explanation, is very disappointing.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Dan Gould

[Peter Johnson]

Agree, Steve--and that was one of the best, coolest things about that thread--is that your point--nay, the "moral" of the thread--was just that. Like what you like! There wasn't one element devoid of "live and let live" present. There didn't use to be anything wrong with strong opinions here.

I assume a thread can be "unlocked"--so Hans, I'd suggest you either a) post an explanation of why you locked the "elvis thread", or b) unlock it (and if you do the latter, I'll vaporize this one if you can include Steve's comment in the "elvis thread").

[AllenLowe]

I think that thread was working, though I gotta admit I was feeling the need to back away so as to avoid saying what I really thought. Funny thing was, because I was worried that some things sound better in memory, I pulled out my Elvis in Memphis and The Louisiana Hayrides, and found I liked them even better than I used to. So sometimes growing up means the opposite of what we assume it to mean,

[Big Beat Steve]

I think that thread was working, though I gotta admit I was feeling the need to back away so as to avoid saying what I really thought.

Yes, I had a feeling that's what you did. I realize I got myself out on a limb (somewhat...) with some of my statements too and did hesitate about posting some of them but then I figured if you cannot even speak your mind and make your point in no uncertain terms if you feel things have been blown up beyond all reasonable proportions then why engage in any discussion at all on what is supposed to be a discussion board after all?

[Matthew]

Thread seems to be open now. I agree it was an unjust decision if it was locked -- blame it on the "gort influence" of the Hoffman board, where any show of emotion or passion makes the moderator uncomfortable...

[Peter Johnson]

Excellent! Still curious why it was locked in the first place...but happy to see cooler heads prevail.

[JSngry]

I said nothing I didn't "really think", and nothing I won't repeat/expound on should the opportunity arise again. Elvis was not a "great artist", although allowances for him being a "freak talent" will be made in the spirit of Christmas, as The King would have wanted us to all honor the Little Baby Jesus, the OTHER King, that way.

Elvis was also a negative social force. Even though his "right place, right time" "happy accident" triggered the Rock Industry, it would have eventually happened any way, and quite possibly better. At any rate, the failure of Elvis to take ownership, at any point, in any way, of the power that was his, musically or otherwise, has had no positive outcomes, only negative. If Elvis was alive today, he'd be Sarah Palin. Or at least married to her. He certainly did nothing to elevate "his people" in any meaningful way. And no, he's not the only one. But in an Elvis thread, let's talk about Elvis.

Also, the repeated notion that me finding Elvis repulsive is rooted in some "envy" of others not getting adequate credit or success puts Big Beat Steve on a strikeout/hit ration about 35% ahead of Dave Kingman. Even more idiotic is the notion that I'm suffering from "white guilt" about Elvis for some reason...I come from redneck country. I know rednecks, I love many rednecks (in spite of themselves), and even have a few as family members. So I know the whole White Southern thing from the inside out faaaaaar better than many, many people who posted in that thread. Believe me, the only "white guilt" that should be felt by anybody about Elvis is by his mother that the other twin died and not Elvis.

Elvis is THE Lie.

But enjoy the music, please! Elvis will thank you.

[Rooster_Ties]

Believe me, the only "white guilt" that should be felt by anybody about Elvis is by his mother that the other twin died and not Elvis.

You had me until this statement, Jim.

[JSngry]

Sorry. Sometimes you gotta use impact to get through the noise. Bad taste, I know, but bad taste and Elvis are not exactly stranges to each ohter.

Nevertheless...ok. My bad on that one.

[Big Beat Steve]

Believe me, the only "white guilt" that should be felt by anybody about Elvis is by his mother that the other twin died and not Elvis.

You had me until this statement, Jim.

Suggested further reading:

Nick Tosches, Unsung Heroes of Rock'n'Roll, DaCapo 1999, p. 176 - ESAU SMITH. ^_^

[Rooster_Ties]

Sorry. Sometimes you gotta use impact to get through the noise. Bad taste, I know, but bad taste and Elvis are not exactly stranges to each ohter.

Nevertheless...ok. My bad on that one.

Thanks.

[jazzbo]

Glad the thread in question is now open. My thoughts on seeing it locked were also "WTF". . . seemed unwarranted and capricious.

I thought the dialog was surprisingly civil.

Me, I like Elvis, in nice small doses.

[J.A.W.]

I decided to post a short explanation as to why I locked the thread, without going into the various individual posts above. I intended to post this in the Elvis thread, but events (like this thread) overtook that intention.

I watched the direction the Elvis thread was taking with growing concern, in particular when I read the Elvis/Wagner/concentration camp analogy that was posted in another thread and the reactions it provoked in the Elvis thread. In my view that analogy was way over the line and uncalled-for, and to prevent the thread from going down that line any further I locked it. However, having thought about it and realizing that some of the reactions in the Elvis thread were civil, balanced and thoughtful, I re-opened it.

As this is another clash between the way I am moderating this board and the opposition it seems to generate, I decided to take time off for personal reasons. So it's goodbye for now.

[Jim Alfredson]

Why is this in the Mosaic/Boxsets forum?

And why does every single moderation action have to be over-analyzed by this group? You guys take it personally when any of your posts are moderated in any way.

If you have an issue with something, send me or the other mods a PM before posting yet another "Why was my post blah blah blah".

Comparing this place to the Hoffman Forum is absolutely ludicrous. Let's at least try to put things into perspective.

[Jim Alfredson]

BTW, I just read through the thread and there is some really ugly, personal stuff in there. I can see where Hans was coming from. But if that's what you guys want this board to be, a bunch of ugly, cloaked personal attacks on each other, then so be it. Have fun.

[JSngry]

Why is this in the Mosaic/Boxsets forum?

Because the original thread originated as a press release/news article about a new Elvis mega-box set that was on the way.

[papsrus]

I decided to post a short explanation as to why I locked the thread, without going into the various individual posts above. I intended to post this in the Elvis thread, but events (like this thread) overtook that intention.

I watched the direction the Elvis thread was taking with growing concern, in particular when I read the Elvis/Wagner/concentration camp analogy that was posted in another thread and the reactions it provoked in the Elvis thread. In my view that analogy was way over the line and uncalled-for, and to prevent the thread from going down that line any further I locked it. However, having thought about it and realizing that some of the reactions in the Elvis thread were civil, balanced and thoughtful, I re-opened it.

As this is another clash between the way I am moderating this board and the opposition it seems to generate, I decided to take time off for personal reasons. So it's goodbye for now.

From my point of view, your intentions are good and you have without question a difficult task, but there has to be some weight given to the interest a particular thread is generating. Weight should also be given to the individual writing styles of the participants. The comment you deemed offensive I found more curious than distasteful.

Even Moms' more direct comments in the Elvis thread have to be taken with a grain of salt. Shaking people up is a good thing sometimes, yes? Passion as well, a good thing.

Ultimately, I think that the inclination to lock any thread should always be weighed against the benefit of allowing the discussion to run its course.

Anyways, I don't mean to pile on. As I said, you have a difficult task and no decision is going to find perfect agreement. I appreciate your largely even-handed efforts and hope you'll continue on.

[JSngry]

Thread-locking is really not a problem for me. The very structure of the software allows for the conversation to be resumed at will.

Thread (and post) deletion is a bit more problematic, but under no circumstances will a moderator please everybody all the time.

HAns, I served as a moderator for about a week and got sick of it. You've done better than me, and for longer. If you should reconsider your decision to resign, know that you'll get no complaints from me.

[paul secor]

I hope that Hans will reconsider. He had a difficult job and did it as fairly and honestly as he could - at least imo.

[Bright Moments]

i propose a 3 moderator review panel to review complaints of a moderator's over-exuberance in locking a thread or deleting a post.

[Rooster_Ties]

Comparing this place to the Hoffman Forum is absolutely ludicrous. Let's at least try to put things into perspective.

This is Jim's house, and he can run it anyway he chooses. We've got more freedom here than almost any board I've been on (save for the old BNBB when literally nobody was minding the store).

Thank you, Jim, for hosting this space for all of us.