Cosby <----> Braxton

[MomsMobley]

lest we forget... from http://www.tv.com/shows/the-cosby-show/theo-and-the-joint-6811/

THEO AND THE JOINT, season 1, episode 17, airdate 7 February 1985

I'd seen interviews with AB where he recalls this less than pleasantly but I admit, I'd not thought to look it up before. Impossible, of course, it was a "coincidence."

Clair accidentally knocks one of Theo's books off the kitchen table and discovers a joint. Clair initially jumps to the conclusion that Theo is a drug addict and that all of his friends are dangerous criminals. Cliff tries to calm her down. They confront Theo, who adamantly declares that the joint is not his and that he has never done drugs. Cliff and Clair insist that they believe him, but Theo is furious that he was subjected to accusations because of someone else's actions. He discovers that the joint belongs to classmate Anthony Braxton, who shoved it into the book to hide it from a teacher. Theo is prepared to fight the much larger Braxton to convince him to come to the Huxtable house and confess. He tells Cliff the truth and agrees to consider counseling. Cliff assures Theo that he did not need to put himself in danger, as he did believe his denial. Braxton seems impressed by the level of trust between father and son, and joins the other neighborhood kids in their touch football game. Meanwhile, gossip Vanessa annoys Cliff and Theo with her constant pathetic attempts to pry information about Theo's situation.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, I remember that one - it's a pretty harsh toke.

[erwbol]

Chickens coming home to roost for Bill ...

[AllenLowe]

I do recall that; yes, what goes around......

next episode of Ripper: Lead Suspect; Bill Crosby

[erwbol]

next episode of Ripper: Lead Suspect; Bill Crosby

http://youtu.be/Nx6KAd_Su3I

Spanish Fly

This aphrodisiac does exist, but it only makes gentlemen (physically) hot. And it would also probably kill them.

[clifford_thornton]

Badfoot Brown is good...

[papsrus]

When I see these stories about successful dudes who are accused of this sort of thing, I think: "You're successful, reasonably attractive to the opposite sex, presumably, and more than likely well capable of arranging any sort of mutually agreeable tryst you want -- so wtf?

But, I suppose, it's all part of a pathology that goes hand in hand with over-inflated ego, a sense of entitlement, coupled with no sense of responsibility at all for one's actions, plus the allure of "risky" behavior. (High risk, high reward -- something like that?)

I can just hear the little voices inside these guys' heads: "Hey, there's an attractive women. I'd really like to get to know her better. I know! I'll drug her, assault her, and kick her to the curb with a few grand hush money. Perfect evening."

[xybert]

Never been sure what to make of the Cosby/Braxton thing. Seems like a really weird way to take a jab at a guy: "Hey i'm Bill Cosby, star of the Cosby Show... what's on the agenda today... let's see, i dislike this Anthony Braxton musician guy... looks like we got a 'very special episode' of the Cosby Show coming up where we find a joint on Theo... i know, let's call Theo's classmate, who gave him the joint, ANTHONY BRAXTON! ROFL oh that'll show him."

Really?

Regarding the recent allegations against Cosby, yeah that sucks. I really liked him as a kid, he reminded me of my uncle. One of those things where it's not until later on that you find out that he's considered to be uncool, and now, if the allegations are true, that he's a total scumbag.

[B. Clugston]

This is from the Braxton Yahoo group recounting a lunch talk Braxton gave in 2007:

"He (Braxton) told how Bill Cosby, one of the gatekeepers, had emailed his agent
to ask him to participate as a session musician in a band Cosby had
organized for the Playboy Jazz Festival). He described how bitter he
was towards Cosby's use of his name in his TV show. He said that on
the show, the son Teo, was looking for drugs and the pusher was named
Anthony Braxton. He (like anyone else) took great offense to this."

[sonnyhill]

This is from the Braxton Yahoo group recounting a lunch talk Braxton gave in 2007:

"He (Braxton) told how Bill Cosby, one of the gatekeepers, had emailed his agent

to ask him to participate as a session musician in a band Cosby had

organized for the Playboy Jazz Festival). He described how bitter he

was towards Cosby's use of his name in his TV show. He said that on

the show, the son Teo, was looking for drugs and the pusher was named

Anthony Braxton. He (like anyone else) took great offense to this."

Thanks for the link. Very, very, interesting reading. I didn't have any Braxton in my collection outside of Woody Shaw's Iron Men. I rectified that recently with a purchase of his recent trio New Haven. Does anyone know if the Graham Lock book Forces in Motion is any good? One more question, which would be a better start to explore Braxton's music the Mosaic or the Black Saint set? Thanks.

[ejp626]

Never been sure what to make of the Cosby/Braxton thing. Seems like a really weird way to take a jab at a guy: "Hey i'm Bill Cosby, star of the Cosby Show... what's on the agenda today... let's see, i dislike this Anthony Braxton musician guy... looks like we got a 'very special episode' of the Cosby Show coming up where we find a joint on Theo... i know, let's call Theo's classmate, who gave him the joint, ANTHONY BRAXTON! ROFL oh that'll show him."

Really?

See the thing was it was supposed to be Anthony Blackman, but some producer got nervous, and they changed the script on me. {Joking.}

It's more bizarre when you think it could have been written in a way to only use a first name, n'est pas?

[xybert]

Never been sure what to make of the Cosby/Braxton thing. Seems like a really weird way to take a jab at a guy: "Hey i'm Bill Cosby, star of the Cosby Show... what's on the agenda today... let's see, i dislike this Anthony Braxton musician guy... looks like we got a 'very special episode' of the Cosby Show coming up where we find a joint on Theo... i know, let's call Theo's classmate, who gave him the joint, ANTHONY BRAXTON! ROFL oh that'll show him."

Really?

See the thing was it was supposed to be Anthony Blackman, but some producer got nervous, and they changed the script on me. {Joking.}

It's more bizarre when you think it could have been written in a way to only use a first name, n'est pas?

Good point. Still, a really strange, petty way to insult someone.

[B. Clugston]

Does anyone know if the Graham Lock book Forces in Motion is any good? One more question, which would be a better start to explore Braxton's music the Mosaic or the Black Saint set? Thanks.

Forces in Motion is an excellent book and a great way to learn about Braxton's music and where he is coming from. Regarding the box sets, both are great, but I'd give the edge to the Mosaic.

[xybert]

This is from the Braxton Yahoo group recounting a lunch talk Braxton gave in 2007:

"He (Braxton) told how Bill Cosby, one of the gatekeepers, had emailed his agent

to ask him to participate as a session musician in a band Cosby had

organized for the Playboy Jazz Festival). He described how bitter he

was towards Cosby's use of his name in his TV show. He said that on

the show, the son Teo, was looking for drugs and the pusher was named

Anthony Braxton. He (like anyone else) took great offense to this."

Thanks for the link. Very, very, interesting reading. I didn't have any Braxton in my collection outside of Woody Shaw's Iron Men. I rectified that recently with a purchase of his recent trio New Haven. Does anyone know if the Graham Lock book Forces in Motion is any good? One more question, which would be a better start to explore Braxton's music the Mosaic or the Black Saint set? Thanks.

Forces in Motion is a great read, i'm sure anyone here will agree. I always thought it would be an interesting read even for non-fans. Overall i like the Mosaic better and it arguably has the more essential material (and again i'm sure most would agree) but the Black Saint set is also excellent IMO.

[papsrus]

Agree with those endorsing "Forces in Motion."

Also worth getting some (or all) of the associated CDs

Coventry

Birmingham

and London.

Edited November 24, 2014 by papsrus

[colinmce]

I'm going to go all-in and say that Forces In Motion is without question the greatest book ever written about a living musician. I re-read it yearly. It's an incredibly inspiring work, a labor of love and inquisition on Graham Lock's part. You will come away from reading it a better person. It's also funny as hell.

[jlhoots]

Everybody's correct.

[7/4]

• Forces in Motion, yes
• Arista Mosaic box, yes

[Steve Reynolds]

Dortmund Quartet 1976

Among many many others - but this one is the "jazz" Braxton record for me

[Homefromtheforest]

Yes Dortmund 1976 is incredible and I would also put "five pieces 1975" at the top of the pile.

I must admit I have a soft spot for Braxton's small group work in the 70s...

[Chuck Nessa]

from that era, Elements of Surprise is my pic.

[JSngry]

Forces In Motion is one of the great music books, period.

Suggestion - read the Postscripts first, then join the show, already in progress.

As for Mosaic v. Black Saint, that's easy - both.

Seriously.

[colinmce]

I'll go ahead and be the naysayer: I think Braxton's 70s work, as wonderful as it is, takes up way to much space in conversations like this. To me, his music of the 80s and early 90s represents an absolute peak in his playing and composing; his work after that time is also quite strong and the last 20 years have provided us with many wonderful records. And so to this degree, I think the Mosaic is a wee bit overrated. As great as the 70s quartet is, there's nothing like the group with Hemingway, Dresser, and Crispell; as grand as Creative Orchestra Music 1976 is, the '78 and '89 Orchestra outings blow way past it. And, as an aside, Mosaic's non-use of album art and notes is simply egregious in this case. I say get the vinyl if you can. But it's not like it's not worth it, it is. But I sold mine and don't miss it. I do get more out of the Black Saint box. I don't want to bypass your question and list my favorite Braxton albums, but I do feel the need to speak up for looking beyond the 70s material.

I have similar feelings about Steve Lacy's music. To me, he really started kicking in at the turn of the 80s. Ditto Cecil Taylor. I guess I'm just not a 70s soul!

THAT said, I'm reeeeally splitting hairs here.

[clifford_thornton]

next episode of Ripper: Lead Suspect; Bill Crosby

http://youtu.be/Nx6KAd_Su3I

So his creep factor goes back quite far... ugh.

[JSngry]

I'll go ahead and be the naysayer: I think Braxton's 70s work, as wonderful as it is, takes up way to much space in conversations like this. To me, his music of the 80s and early 90s represents an absolute peak in his playing and composing; his work after that time is also quite strong and the last 20 years have provided us with many wonderful records. And so to this degree, I think the Mosaic is a wee bit overrated. As great as the 70s quartet is, there's nothing like the group with Hemingway, Dresser, and Crispell; as grand as Creative Orchestra Music 1976 is, the '78 and '89 Orchestra outings blow way past it. And, as an aside, Mosaic's non-use of album art and notes is simply egregious in this case. I say get the vinyl if you can. But it's not like it's not worth it, it is. But I sold mine and don't miss it. I do get more out of the Black Saint box. I don't want to bypass your question and list my favorite Braxton albums, but I do feel the need to speak up for looking beyond the 70s material.

I have similar feelings about Steve Lacy's music. To me, he really started kicking in at the turn of the 80s. Ditto Cecil Taylor. I guess I'm just not a 70s soul!

THAT said, I'm reeeeally splitting hairs here.

Musically, no argument.

But in terms of "collecting" or even just simply acquiring, Braxton, Cecil, and especially Lacy...it's like all those labels, all that product, if you're not there in real time, it can be a bitch of a retro-fit, and even if you are/were, there's only so much money at any given time.

Say what you will about the 70s, but shit, motherfuckers had contracts, deals. Easy collation for historical reissues...if I tell you that I'm bygod thankful for so many the BS/SN boxes becuase at last I'm getting to replace my oldass cassette dubs, can you feel my painful joy? Because I don't mean high-end Maxell CrO2 blanks, I'm talking generic ass K-Mart store brand blanks, because that was all I could afford to get all I desperately wanted to hear from the 1-2 people I knew who could get it where Iw as at that time.

You think that retro-collecting Sonny Stitts or Lee Konitz can lead you down some dark alleys, try collecting Steve Lacy or Braxton or Cecil. And then try finding time to listen ot it all and digest it all AND eat three balanced meals a day, with or without dessert!

Shit was a lot easier when there were cutout bins, too, I'll tell you that right now!

People should buy all the Hat stuff they think they might even someday sorta like, becuase right now, it's still semi-plentiful. But that's an exception, a supremely Carpe Diem exception.