Teasing the Korean Posted January 20, 2015 Report Posted January 20, 2015 http://www.classicalmusicmagazine.org/2015/01/ward-swingle-1927-2014/ Quote
GA Russell Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) http://www.al.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/01/mobilian_ward_swingle_founder.html RIP. When I first read about The Swingle Singers in the mid-'60s, I thought that their name was some sort of play on the word "swing!" I've never seen much of theirs available on CD. In 1989 I picked up their "Compact Jazz" release/compilation, but haven't seen much else since. About 1996 I got a new album of theirs called "a capella" I think. I enjoyed it very much, but it was very different from their '60s style. Edited January 21, 2015 by GA Russell Quote
danasgoodstuff Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I too always assumed that Swingle was some sort of horrid play on words...and maybe it still was? Quote
T.D. Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) RIP. I suggest the Swingle Singers recording of Berio's Sinfonia, but that's probably very hard to find (maybe the piece isn't to everyone's taste, as well... ). Added: Granted, various later recordings of Sinfonia are generally regarded as better, but the original one with the Swingle Singers is "of historical significance". Edited January 21, 2015 by T.D. Quote
paul secor Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I recall radio stations playing the Swingle Singers doing Bach in the early 1960s. Ward Swingle was part of the Double Six of Paris, who recorded a good album with Dizzy and Bud in 1963. Fun music to listen to. I never realized that he was American and from Mobile. R.I.P., Mr. Swingle. Quote
Hardbopjazz Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I use to have every LP by the original Swingle Singers. I wish I had them still. R.I.P. Ward Swingle. . Quote
Gheorghe Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I´m glad that I´m not the only guy who thought the Swingle Singers had something to do with the word "swing". Yeah that kind of vocal groups was a big seller during the 60s and 70s. Every household had at least one record with the Swingle Singers, or with Manhatten Transfer later..... I still have the old record Diz made with them, where they sing all the boppish big band arrangements. And Bud on piano on some of the tracks.... I like that record, the way they do the original arrangements and I think one of them scattin the original line of a James Moody solo. I read on the album cover that it also got lyrics in french, some kind of abstract fairy-tales I think. Well my french is only a few words, though I love that language, but I couldnt understand the lyrics from the record..... Quote
GA Russell Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 Now that I think of it, I thought that the word "Swingle" was short for "Swinging Single." Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I have strange feelings and reminiscences about them from my very early days of jazz (and interest in music at all). My parents had the odd Swingle Singers LP (I think I have inherited the Swinging Bach LP) as part of what they found "respectable" in jazz when (and only when) merged with classical music (yes, MJQ, Gruntz and Loussier were others among the handful of jazz LPs they ever had - typical 60s European target customers of "Third Stream" )). Not what I considered the CORE and ESSENCE of jazz both older and modern in my formative teen years at all, but oh well ... Generation gap, I guess (though my interest in jazz was in the older forms from Day 1). But the more unsettling listening experience around that time was a late Sunday evening radio broadcast which I think was taken over from Austrian radio (the host was Austrian) called "Schlager für Fortgeschrittene" (something like "pop hits for advanced people") that aired an extremely odd mixture of records that sounded to my - then - ears of a 14 to 15-year old teen as if they had been recorded and pressed along the principles of "Yes they do make records like that in spite of what the listeners out there would buy at all". Actually I now and then tuned in to that program because I found the usual radio hit fare rather boring - but on the other hand, THAT ..??) . I cannot recall the programming in detail; it was made of all sorts of 60s/early 70s sophisticated "adult target audience" singing (and if it had not been for the vocals, the dominating instrumental sound patterns of the records would have been more like "elevator music" - to this teen's ears, anyway), but the Swingle Singers recordings were featured regularly, and at the time I found this kind of singing rather disturbing. Not that I had problems warming up to other vocal groups such as Lambert Hendricks & Ross or the Double Six of Paris or others later on, but the Swingles sure struck an odd chord with me and whenever I listen to them today (not often, admittedly) those times in the 70s come up again .... Edited January 21, 2015 by Big Beat Steve Quote
Teasing the Korean Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Posted January 21, 2015 I have strange feelings and reminiscences about them from my very early days of jazz (and interest in music at all). My parents had the odd Swingle Singers LP (I think I have inherited the Swinging Bach LP) as part of what they found "respectable" in jazz when (and only when) merged with classical music (yes, MJQ, Gruntz and Loussier were others among the handful of jazz LPs they ever had - typical 60s European target customers of "Third Stream" )). Not what I considered the CORE and ESSENCE of jazz both older and modern in my formative teen years at all, but oh well ... Generation gap, I guess (though my interest in jazz was in the older forms from Day 1). It is interesting how culture and location affects your perspective on these things. As a kid in the U.S., the Swingles sounded like an idealized modern Europe, and I loved them for that very reason. Pretty cool that a guy born in Mobile, Alabama was able to pull this off! To this day, I love seeing any record with a Philips label spinning on my turntable. Quote
Gheorghe Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I have strange feelings and reminiscences about them from my very early days of jazz (and interest in music at all). My parents had the odd Swingle Singers LP (I think I have inherited the Swinging Bach LP) as part of what they found "respectable" in jazz when (and only when) merged with classical music (yes, MJQ, Gruntz and Loussier were others among the handful of jazz LPs they ever had - typical 60s European target customers of "Third Stream" )). Not what I considered the CORE and ESSENCE of jazz both older and modern in my formative teen years at all, but oh well ... Generation gap, I guess (though my interest in jazz was in the older forms from Day 1). But the more unsettling listening experience around that time was a late Sunday evening radio broadcast which I think was taken over from Austrian radio (the host was Austrian) called "Schlager für Fortgeschrittene" (something like "pop hits for advanced people") that aired an extremely odd mixture of records that sounded to my - then - ears of a 14 to 15-year old teen as if they had been recorded and pressed along the principles of "Yes they do make records like that in spite of what the listeners out there would buy at all". Actually I now and then tuned in to that program because I found the usual radio hit fare rather boring - but on the other hand, THAT ..??) . I cannot recall the programming in detail; it was made of all sorts of 60s/early 70s sophisticated "adult target audience" singing (and if it had not been for the vocals, the dominating instrumental sound patterns of the records would have been more like "elevator music" - to this teen's ears, anyway), but the Swingle Singers recordings were featured regularly, and at the time I found this kind of singing rather disturbing. Not that I had problems warming up to other vocal groups such as Lambert Hendricks & Ross or the Double Six of Paris or others later on, but the Swingles sure struck an odd chord with me and whenever I listen to them today (not often, admittedly) those times in the 70s come up again .... same with me, we might be about the same generation. Remember that radio "Schlager für Fortgeschrittene", though I didn´t listen to it, I listened to Jazz-Shop with the legendary host Herwig Wurzer, from where I got inspirations what records to buy..... Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 Yes, this early exposure to the Swingle Singers occurred in the mid-70s. I did listen ot a lot of jazz radio shows up until the mid-80s or so (at the time there still were many more interesting jazz programs than there are today) and got many inspirations there too, and lots of the records played were ear-openers (in some cases only fulfilled decades later when I finally tracked down the records). As for the context the Swingle Singers were aired in the above radio show at the time, I did a quick Google search and found the theme of the show actually was a Swingle Singers rendition of a piece by Bach, and one of the host's other often-played artists was Leroy Anderson! Yikes ... what company! So now you have the setting ... Quote
gmonahan Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 I always loved this group. Universal packed their first 11 albums into a cd box set back in 2005. Rather spendy to get today, but some fine music there for those who like that style: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Swingle-Singers/dp/B000BU99I8/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421871006&sr=1-5&keywords=Swingle+Singers+box+set. gregmo Quote
GA Russell Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I see many of their albums available now. I had no idea. Look at the "Customers also bought..." here: http://www.amazon.com/Swinging-The-Classics-Jazz-Club/dp/B002Q4RLGE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1E4WWZWSVBN86CACSVRY Edited January 21, 2015 by GA Russell Quote
BillF Posted January 21, 2015 Report Posted January 21, 2015 This stuff was once so popular that I can remember record stores with the jazz area divided into four sections: Trad, Modern, Progressive (i.e. Kenton, etc) and Jazz Sebastian Bach! Quote
ejp626 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I saw the Swingle Singers in 1988 or 1989. I really can't recall too much of the program, but I think it was far more traditional vocal jazz (Lullaby of Birdland, etc.) than anything pulled from the Bach playbook. But it was a long time ago...Wow - my memory is totally shot. I actually turned up the program on-line - it was Dec. 1987 and there were two short Bach pieces on the program. But rather than being primarily jazz, it was primarily a Christmas themed concert. If interested, it is here: http://media.aadl.org/documents/pdf/ums/programs_19871210e.pdf Edited January 22, 2015 by ejp626 Quote
BillF Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 This stuff was once so popular that I can remember record stores with the jazz area divided into four sections: Trad, Modern, Progressive (i.e. Kenton, etc) and Jazz Sebastian Bach! Correction: memory now tells me that those fourth sections were labelled Jacques Loussier, who was another French purveyor of swingin' Bach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Loussier Quote
Gheorghe Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I think that swingin´Bach-stuff was just a way to get classically trained people to jazz. I must admit I never could get with that. Third stream ist just not my cup of tea, but whoever loves it. Well, I think it was just the times: Typical middle-class families with the traditional musical tastes Mozart, Beethofen, Bach and so on just had one or two so called "Jazz Records" in the shelves, usually that Bach-Swingle Singers, or some Jaques Loussier, or in case they could get away for a minute from the connections to classical music, they usually had one Oscar Peterson-album or Errol Garner album...... Edited January 22, 2015 by Gheorghe Quote
BillF Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah, I think that swingin´Bach-stuff was just a way to get classically trained people to jazz. I must admit I never could get with that. Third stream ist just not my cup of tea, but whoever loves it. Well, I think it was just the times: Typical middle-class families with the traditional musical tastes Mozart, Beethofen, Bach and so on just had one or two so called "Jazz Records" in the shelves, usually that Bach-Swingle Singers, or some Jaques Loussier, or in case they could get away for a minute from the connections to classical music, they usually had one Oscar Peterson-album or Errol Garner album...... Probably the then current bossa nova craze would have suited them, too ... Quote
Gheorghe Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Hello BillF: I´m not so sure. the bossa nova craze was not so bad, you can get some nice music out of it, but I think those folks who normally listened to concert music were not conscious of bossa nova. I think, bossa nova should have some nice percussion on it, and at least I never saw Bossa Nova ( even easy goin´ like Getz Gilberto and so on) in the shelves of the non-"jazz" houses. Oscar Peterson and Errol Garner (though they sure are good musicians), they had that "something" that made non-jazz middle class western people like it more than Diz, Miles or Trane. Anyway I seldom saw "horn players" in non-jazz family living rooms... , maybe Louis Armstrong, but piano "jazz" appealed more to the classical trained ears...... Anyway, if you looked at the album covers, they had title to things those people "knew": ....... Garner plays Gershwin,........ Peterson plays Westside Story (if something like that exists, I dunno.....) , Quote
Teasing the Korean Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah, I think that swingin´Bach-stuff was just a way to get classically trained people to jazz. That is an over-simplification. There was something about Bach's music that resonated with 1960s sensibilities. There were the Swingles, Jacques Loussier, Walter Carlos, plus lots of baroque influences in rock/pop music, film scores, etc. The baroque sound was everywhere. There was also a healthy irreverence to "classical" music during that period, and these records were a way of saying both that the music endures, but nothing is sacred. I would also argue that, from my experience in the US, the Swingles were a gateway into classical music just as much as they may have been a gateway out. Quote
paul secor Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah, I think that swingin´Bach-stuff was just a way to get classically trained people to jazz. That is an over-simplification. There was something about Bach's music that resonated with 1960s sensibilities. There were the Swingles, Jacques Loussier, Walter Carlos, plus lots of baroque influences in rock/pop music, film scores, etc. The baroque sound was everywhere. There was also a healthy irreverence to "classical" music during that period, and these records were a way of saying both that the music endures, but nothing is sacred. I would also argue that, from my experience in the US, the Swingles were a gateway into classical music just as much as they may have been a gateway out. I agree with the last sentence. It didn't work for me, but I think that it may have been the case for others. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Got to confess I never liked the Swingle Singers, and the most irritating (to me) record in my collection is the Dizzy Gillespie with the Double Six. I got it on the Diz Mosaic box and I've played it exactly twice before deciding that was enough for one lifetime Still, I've got to admit, that stuff WAS well liked and also, in its way, important. There are LOTS more important musicians than important jazz musicians and it's always interesting to listen to a bit of their music, even if one doesn't like it all that much.RIP Mr Swingle.MG Quote
Big Beat Steve Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah, I think that swingin´Bach-stuff was just a way to get classically trained people to jazz. I must admit I never could get with that. Third stream ist just not my cup of tea, but whoever loves it. Well, I think it was just the times: Typical middle-class families with the traditional musical tastes Mozart, Beethofen, Bach and so on just had one or two so called "Jazz Records" in the shelves, usually that Bach-Swingle Singers, or some Jaques Loussier, or in case they could get away for a minute from the connections to classical music, they usually had one Oscar Peterson-album or Errol Garner album...... It may indeed be an oversimplification (as TTK says) but from my own experience (with my parents - as hinted at earlier and also with other people from that generation) I think you nailed it - particularly when thumbing through old volumes of our own German mazz mag JAZZ PODIUM. "Third Stream" in all its facets (starting with the MJQ - I remember my mother enthusing about their "Fontessa" album) and the entire subject of how to obtain "respectability" for jazz got a lot of room there for quite a few years. OTOH, Lionel Hampton's concerts were blasted as if they were the lowest of lowly gateway to juvenile delinquency (not surprisingly ). This entire aspect of classically trained middle-class people somehow trying to get to grips with jazz is a VERY European thing and probably not comparable to the typical "average" U.S. experience. As far as I can see you are right about the non-presence of "horn-led" jazz (and the presence of a token few piano jazz albums) if artists outside of "Third Stream" were purchased too. Just checked up .. the Swingle Singers album I "inherited" from my mother is "Going Baroque", BTW. In the same batch were George Gruntz' "Jazz Goes Baroque" Vol. 1 and 2, Loussier Vol. 1 and the above-named "Fontessa" by the MJQ (I had bought my own copy of that one long ago by then but here came a DG black label U.S. Atlantic pressing, so who am I to complain? ). The tyical fare of classically-eared middle class people from over here who ventured into jazz. At the time this kind of jazz all sounded extremely odd and sometimes downright gutless to me by my swing, oldtime and bop jazz standards. I then got into the MJQ fairly early on but overall I still cannot warm up much to Loussier and the Swingle Singers are an acquired taste (though I do like the Double Six of Paris' Quincy Jones album, for example). As for Bossa Nova, come to think of it, I think Bossa tunes were also heavily featured on that Austiran radio show I mentioned earlier (I remember that seemingly casual, uninvolved, low-key singing struck me as pretty strange too back then, though lately I've warmed up to Bossa Nova as part of those very 60s-ish sounds too ) Quote
Gheorghe Posted January 22, 2015 Report Posted January 22, 2015 Thank you all for that really interesting discussion. TTK sure is right when he says my point of view is an over-simplification, but somehow it was my impression then..... As for the old Jazz Podium, yes, brings memories back, and I had the same experiences with MJQ . In my "wild" years it just wasn´t my kind of stuff, I was focussed on Mingus for example..... but now there are days I can enjoy it. Same with bossa.... Big Steave Beat: your statement about Lionel Hampton - Concerts. You got the point. I remember school-time, we had an old teacher who said in an angry manner "what kind of crap you are listening, youngsters "hey baba ru bap" (sic!) , I think he referred to Hampton. It was amusing, because this was in the earyl 70´s and I don´t think there were so many teenies listening to Hamp...... Quote
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