Why Did Mingus Record Only Two Albums for Columbia?

[medjuck]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Who?

[JSngry]

Archie Bleyer.

[Chuck Nessa]

25 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Archie Bleyer.

Married to a Chordette.

[paul secor]

Also, father-in-law (for a while) of Phil Everly.

[JSngry]

And also the guy who "started" Candid.

[Gheorghe]

Right now while I read this I almost had forgotten Mingus had two periods with Columbia. Imagine, I had forgotten that the 1959 sides also was Columbia.

It seems that I was only aware of two CBS albums that was "Let My Children Hear Music" and "Mingus and Friends in Concert".

Somewhere I have read that the people from Columbia dropped Mingus "like a hot potatoe". Anyway, Columbia or CBS had that reissue boom during the late 70´s where they issued some albums under the name "Contemporary Masters" and one of it was Mingus´ "Nostalgia at Time Square - his immortal 1959 sessions" with some stuff from the original albums, some restored soloes that had been edited......

I think CBS had become such a big thing in music business they could "afford" to have some "difficult" artists that would might sell harder. Don´t forget they even got Ornette under contract, above all "Skies of America".....

[bertrand]

On 3/3/2018 at 9:24 AM, sidewinder said:

Also the recording at Ronnie Scotts which was planned as a 2LP set by UK CBS and never put out. Around the same time.

 

Did not know about this. It could still come out, right?

Edited March 5, 2018 by bertrand

[sidewinder]

58 minutes ago, bertrand said:

Did not know about this. It could still come out, right?

There were rumours at one stage that it was going to be put out on CD (BGO?) but nothing as yet.

[kh1958]

If only Mingus had been married to Laurie Pepper.

[felser]

10 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Somewhere I have read that the people from Columbia dropped Mingus "like a hot potatoe". Anyway, Columbia or CBS had that reissue boom during the late 70´s where they issued some albums under the name "Contemporary Masters" and one of it was Mingus´ "Nostalgia at Time Square - his immortal 1959 sessions" with some stuff from the original albums, some restored soloes that had been edited......

Wouldn't the edited solos have been a possible point of contention?  Can't imagine Mingus being too pleased about that.

@JSngry - Archie Bleyer started Cadence Records, Nat Hentoff (I believe) started Candid Records.

Edited March 5, 2018 by felser

[JSngry]

Nope. Candid was part of Cadence. Nat Hentoff was A&R.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candid_Records

[felser]

24 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Nope. Candid was part of Cadence. Nat Hentoff was A&R.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candid_Records

I stand corrected!

[paul secor]

2 hours ago, felser said:

Wouldn't the edited solos have been a possible point of contention?  Can't imagine Mingus being too pleased about that.

 

Mingus used editing on several of his records, and definitely on some of the tracks on the two early Columbia records. Reading the booklet of the Mosaic box, it's unclear whether Mingus was involved in the editing of those, but it's implied that he was. At least that's my take.

Edited March 5, 2018 by paul secor

[JSngry]

Mingus was a very proactive recordist.

[felser]

43 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Mingus was a very proactive recordist.

Was "Black Saint and Sinner Lady" a heavily edited album?  Can't imagine it getting played verbatim as well as it comes off.

[paul secor]

2 minutes ago, felser said:

Was "Black Saint and Sinner Lady" a heavily edited album?  Can't imagine it getting played verbatim as well as it comes off.

I believe that it was.

[JSngry]

Very heavily edited, actually. Or spliced together, depending on how you want to look at it. Not "editing" as in shortening, but putting sections together so they worked once assembled. Sort of a pre-cursor to Miles/Teo in that regard. But geez, look at Massey Hall, bass overdubbed non-stop. There's other examples in the Debut era as well. Mingus was not one to reject recording technology as a "compositional tool", ever, not that I can tell.

[medjuck]

I believe that there only a couple of complete takes done for Tijuana Moods.  Most cuts were put together via editing.  Not sure how involved Mingus was. 

[JSngry]

Sort of a pre-cursor to Miles/Teo in that regard.

Well, duh. Teo was into that kind of thing already, electronic music, etc, that was his home turf, sorta, maybe more than jazz, "modern classical".

Easy to forget how there was a "different" prior to the Cafe Bohemia recordings, in there. If he had died in, say, 1954 (which of course he didn't), look at what he would have left behind as a legacy...Teo, John LaPorta all those Debut things, not a holler or a stomp anywhere in sight.

[mikeweil]

Pre-Bird on Mercury was heavily edited. The CD reissue had index marks for each razorblade edit. Very revealing. Mingus sort of re-constructed/re-composed a Yusef Lateef solo cadenza note for note with half a dozen edits or so. I find that kind of abusive.

Anyway - for perfectionist Mingus, editing obviously was another means/extension of the compositional process.

Edited March 5, 2018 by mikeweil

[JSngry]

5 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

 Mingus sort of re-constructed/re-composed a Yusef Lateef solo cadenza note for note with half a dozen edits or so.

Bill Evans (sax) said that Teo would routinely do the same thing to his solos.

[Chuck Nessa]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Bill Evans (sax) said that Teo would routinely do the same thing to his solos.

Did he think this was a bad thing?

[JSngry]

Teo, obviously not. Bill Evans (sax) seemed to be, at best, ambiguous about it. Me, I don't care. Those records...Teo knew what he was doing and why he was doing it.

My respect for Teo grows as time passes. I think he was probably a, uh..."difficult" person in many ways in many times, but oh well. Time will sort out all that.

[Teasing the Korean]

Edits made so a recording can fit a format are one thing.  Deliberately recording more music than you plan to use is quite another. 

[Chuck Nessa]

18 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Edits made so a recording can fit a format are one thing.  Deliberately recording more music than you plan to use is quite another. 

not necessarily the way it works.