Paul Chambers--Whims of Chambers

[Milestones]

This is nice early record with Coltrane and Donald Byrd on some tracks.

But I have been mystified by Coltrane being credited as the composer on two tracks and not playing on either one: "Nita" and "Just for the Love."  Byrd offers a fine solo on the latter. 

Speaking of Byrd, he wrote the opener: "Omicron."  How is that for being prophetic!!!!

 

 

[Mark Stryker]

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

This is nice early record with Coltrane and Donald Byrd on some tracks.

But I have been mystified by Coltrane being credited as the composer on two tracks and not playing on either one: "Nita" and "Just for the Love."  Byrd offers a fine solo on the latter. 

Speaking of Byrd, he wrote the opener: "Omicron."  How is that for being prophetic!!!!

 

 

FWIW, there's a discussion of Trane's compositions "Nita" and "Just for the Love" on pages 115-117 in Lewis Porter's Coltrane biography. Both are unique songs -- the former has an unusual f3-bar form A-A-A-B, with some key centers shifting in 3rds that suggest a step toward "Giant Steps." That later is a 12-bar blues form with harmonically rich substitute changes. 

Donald Byrd plays his ass on on that date, especially on "Omicron" -- "Woody n You" changes, 6/8 intro and coda.

[Gheorghe]

I bought the then available BN LA double album "Paul Chambers-John Coltrane" which has much of the "Whims" on it, then the whole session from LA with Kenny Drew, and those Transition side with Curtis Fuller on it. 
Whims of Chambers is one of the best hard bop BN albums, I mean, Philly J.J., wow, an allstar thing. I love it. The other stuff I bought later as a very expensive japanese CD I think it is called "Message from the East". Stablemates is my favourite track on it. 

[Daniel A]

On 2022-01-28 at 4:57 AM, Milestones said:

This is nice early record with Coltrane and Donald Byrd on some tracks.

But I have been mystified by Coltrane being credited as the composer on two tracks and not playing on either one: "Nita" and "Just for the Love."  Byrd offers a fine solo on the latter. 

Speaking of Byrd, he wrote the opener: "Omicron."  How is that for being prophetic!!!!

 

 

But Coltrane *is* playing on these tracks, right? 

[Mark Stryker]

38 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

But Coltrane *is* playing on these tracks, right? 

Actually, Trane solos on both tracks. Milestones is mistaken. He plays first on "Just for the Love," and on "Nita" he plays third, after the trumpet and guitar solos. 

 

[jlhoots]

Have it, like it.

[Milestones]

I have to look into this.  My versions do NOT feature Coltrane.  The YouTube version of "Nita" is quite a bit longer in running time than my version.   

Edited January 29, 2022 by Milestones

[JSngry]

What label is yours on?

[Milestones]

Ok, that was just weird.  The titles were all wrong; I don't think anything matched up among the seven tracks.  And I couldn't tell, since these are all obscure pieces by band members.  The Coltrane thing just didn't make sense.  So actually it is Trane on his two originals: tracks 3 & 7.

Life in the world of downloads!

 

 

[Gheorghe]

On 29.1.2022 at 3:53 PM, Mark Stryker said:

Actually, Trane solos on both tracks. Milestones is mistaken. He plays first on "Just for the Love," and on "Nita" he plays third, after the trumpet and guitar solos. 

 

That´s the album cover I also have. Really, I like Whims of Chambers most of all three, because it´s the best personnel for a typical hard bop album. 
Beautiful photo, beautiful quiet and romantic street, where may this have been ? And, I didn´t know Chambers was so skinny, I saw other photos where I see only his face and it was more the kind of a very round "baby face". 
But yes, he was the greatest bass player of the 50´s and early 60´s. But I think, after 1961 or so he recording activities got less intense. The last recording I heard of him was on the quite obscure "Rajah" from Lee Morgan, which was issued long time after Morgan´s death, and somehow Chambers doesn´t have that sure and fat sound he once had....

[Mark Stryker]

11 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

That´s the album cover I also have. Really, I like Whims of Chambers most of all three, because it´s the best personnel for a typical hard bop album. 
Beautiful photo, beautiful quiet and romantic street, where may this have been ? And, I didn´t know Chambers was so skinny, I saw other photos where I see only his face and it was more the kind of a very round "baby face". 
But yes, he was the greatest bass player of the 50´s and early 60´s. But I think, after 1961 or so he recording activities got less intense. The last recording I heard of him was on the quite obscure "Rajah" from Lee Morgan, which was issued long time after Morgan´s death, and somehow Chambers doesn´t have that sure and fat sound he once had....

I always assumed that photo was taken in suburban Englewood Cliff's on a street somewhere near Rudy's studio.

The Tom Lord discography list 354 separate recording sessions (not individual LPs) for Chambers. The vast majority of them -- more than 300 -- come between 1954 and the end of 1962. There are only 45 or so listings between 1962 and November 1968. He died in January 1969. The cumulative impact of drugs (early) and alcohol (later) caught up to him and his body gave out. He died of tuberculous. He was 33. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

Dissipation is a motherfucker.

[Chuck Nessa]

1 minute ago, Mark Stryker said:

I always assume that photo was taken in suburban Englewood Cliff's on a street somewhere near Rudy's studio.

 

Rudy was still recording in Hackensack at the time.

[bertrand]

1 hour ago, Mark Stryker said:

I always assume that photo was taken in suburban Englewood Cliff's on a street somewhere near Rudy's studio.

The Tom Lord discography list 354 separate recording sessions (not individual LPs) for Chambers. The vast majority of them -- more than 300 -- come between 1954 and the end of 1962. There are only 45 or so listings between 1962 and November 1968. He died in January 1969. The cumulative impact of drugs (early) and alcohol (later) caught up to him and his body gave out. He died of tuberculous. He was 33. 

PC played at Left Bank after the last date listed in Lord. If that was recorded, it would be his last date. I will dig up details later.

[clifford_thornton]

1 hour ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Rudy was still recording in Hackensack at the time.

yeah, I recall it being discussed somewhere that this was shot in front of the Hackensack house.

[Mark Stryker]

2 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Rudy was still recording in Hackensack at the time.

Yes, thanks for pointing this out. I misspoke. It would have been Hackensack. Still assume the photo was shot in the vicinity of the house/studio.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I don't think that is around the Hackensack studio. Not enough trees around there:

[Gheorghe]

But what a beautiful surrounding for making a record. You can take a break and sit on the meadow or under a tree. 

When I recorded when I was younger, it  was an ugly street without trees.....

[mhatta]

On 2022/1/28 at 0:57 PM, Milestones said:

Speaking of Byrd, he wrote the opener: "Omicron."  How is that for being prophetic!!!!

 

 

I didn't know "Omicron" is a Donald Byrd tune.  For some reason Bud Powell played it with Barney Wilen (sans Byrd).

 

[Gheorghe]

43 minutes ago, mhatta said:

I didn't know "Omicron" is a Donald Byrd tune.  For some reason Bud Powell played it with Barney Wilen (sans Byrd).

 

I saw the Barney Wilen-Bud-Pierre-Klook thing on a video and I think it is also on the Mythic Discs....

But they play it without that great intro. Just the tune, which anyway is the chords of "Woody´n You", so it was easy stuff for Bud (about whom I heard that in his last years he had difficulties to learn new tunes . 

But Bud with Paul Chambers was Heaven on Earth (Scene Changes) and the 1957 with Byrd and Phil Woods.... 

I heard that BN had planned a recordings session of Bud with Chambers and Roy Haynes while he played at Birdland in 1964, but it didn´t happen or was rejected. And Chambers visited Bud at his hotel..... too sad they didn´t work together again. John Ore was okay, but sometimes his solos sounded more like "exercises" that the horn like bass solos Paul did......., from hearing some of Bud returning to Birdland, I mean the good nights, I often wondered why they couldn´t give him the strenght and will to make a record with let´s say Donald Byrd, Jackie McLean, Chambers and Roy Haynes........ (not only trio there is too much trio and Bud was much more inspired on dates with a good horn player added....

[bertrand]

PC's last date shown in Tom Lord is a Wynton Kelly trio date on 8/4/68. He played Left Bank with Blue Mitchell on 9/15/68. The rest of the band was Sonny Red, Bobby Timmons and Lennie McBrowne. He died on 1/4/69.

Based on a secret list I have, a tape existed 20 years ago. Not sure if John Fowler still has it, but PC's very last recording may still be out there and I am sure it is better than the Wynton Kelly date. Not sexy enough for Zev Feldman, I guess.

Bertrand.

PS: It is also one of the last Bobby Timmons dates. He was at Left Bank with Dexter Gordon on 5/4/69, and that seems to be his last recording.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by bertrand

[Gheorghe]

Somehow "last dates"  depress me a bit. 
The "last" I have is that Lee Morgan "Rajah" and Chambers sounds weaker than usual and even the bass doesn´t sound the same. Maybe he lost or selled a good instrument and got a cheaper one ? 

All those "last dates".
I have some but don´t listen any more to them: 
Bird´s Cole Porter Songbook
Diz´ early 1992 with 2 or 3 other trumpetists added
Mingus with Hamp
Bud´s "Up´s n´Downs"
Ike Quebek´s "Soul Samba"
Lester Young in Paris a few days before he died
 

But Paul Chambers set a standard, and he had a sound that recorded well. Some of his contempraries on record still have a kind of "tinny" sound, but Pauls bass is a beautiful fat sound. It was the first "jazz" I heard (the tune Milestones from the same album). I had heard that, had heard the walking bass and this tune and sound started a live-long love affair with jazz).....

[Peter Friedman]

A lot of discussion about Paul Chambers. I first saw Chambers at  sessions in Detroit at a place called The World Stage.

This was in the 1950's before he left for New York.

Though I like Paul Chambers playing, I actually prefer another Detroit bass player  - Doug Watkins - who I also saw at that same venue.

When I think back to how fortunate I was  to see all the marvelous "local" musicians in Detroit in the 1950's and early to mid 1960's. That includes Kenny Burrell, Tommy Flanagan, Barry Harris, Pepper Adams, Curtis Fuller,  Terry Pollard, Elvin Jones, Frank Gant, Kirk Lightsey, Charles McPherson, Lonnie Hillyer, Sonny Red, Yusef Lateef, Hugh Lawson, Paul Chambers, Doug Watkins, Ray McKinney , Harold Mckinney, Abe Woodley, George Bohanon, Bernard McKinney, and others whose names I don"t recall right now. 

 

[clifford_thornton]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:36 PM, bresna said:

I don't think that is around the Hackensack studio. Not enough trees around there:

Interesting. Maybe a street over? Or perhaps by the time it was issued Rudy had moved to Englewood Cliffs. 

[Chuck Nessa]

34 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

Interesting. Maybe a street over? Or perhaps by the time it was issued Rudy had moved to Englewood Cliffs. 

Whims of Chambers was released in 1957. Rudy opened the Englewood Cliffs studio in August of 1959.