hopkins Posted August 7, 2022 Report Share Posted August 7, 2022 (edited) I'm an audiophile! But I'm not obsessed with getting the best versions of albums, especially considering how costly it would be. When I have the choice I avoid purchasing bad quality versions issued by "dodgy" labels - if I can find one from a known "respectable" label at a reasonable price. I'll spend more for Mosaic box sets, and have quite a few, but it's really about the music offered (and the liner notes). I don't really care how the "manufacturing process" works, and I'm happy with CDs, I don't care whether it's digital or analog. In fact, I just received yesterday Mosaic's latest But if you purchase one of these MOFi albums, then you are really paying for the quality of the manufacturing process only, not for the music or liner notes. From an economic standpoint, I'd rather see money spend on preserving music, issuing unreleased material, and generally contributing to our knowledge of the music, than see people spend large amounts of money on one more version of "Kind of Blue". So I guess I don't have much sympathy for either side in this MOFi fiasco. Edited August 7, 2022 by hopkins grammar & spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted August 7, 2022 Report Share Posted August 7, 2022 I've been reading about this over on the Hoffman forums and I've tried to hold back on posting about it because I'm afraid my attitude might upset a few posters. I think this is awesome. It finally shut up all of the golden eared music listeners who claimed that only AAA can sound good and that they can "hear" analog. I've been saying for years that analog in and of itself does not guarantee great sound but nothing I've said has had any effect on most of them and the Hoffman forums' rules preclude anyone from calling them out on it. Mobile Fidelity finally showed them that the emperor has no clothes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 7, 2022 Report Share Posted August 7, 2022 I too had thought of that exact same Emperor’s New Clothes analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam_44 Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 10 hours ago, Brad said: That’s when I started watching him then too. I agree with you about Fremer. When Mike said he had a conflict of interest because he received free product from ERC he claimed that had nothing to do with anything. Although Mike is a retailer he still strikes me as a straight shooter. Do you ever watch 45 RPM Audiophile’s channel. It can be interesting although there is a certain sameness to it after awhile. However, he has developed a name and does have good guests. I haven’t watched any 45 RPM Audiophile videos. I’ll check it out. I only watch about a third of Espositos videos. They only channel I consistently watch is Channel 33 RPM because I really like Frank and they are short. I follow Noble Records but never watch it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted August 12, 2022 Report Share Posted August 12, 2022 On 8/7/2022 at 7:39 AM, jcam_44 said: Esposito’s YouTube is a good watch most of the time and he does irritate a lot of people. I started watching him when he was dragging ERC for their quality. He made a good argument. The beef with him and Fremer was hilarious. Fremer is a tool imo. He’s the quintessential audiophile dork. I just can’t believe Esposito is only 37… I would have guessed much older. I know right? I'm 41 and look way younger than Mike Esposito, most people think I'm in my early 30's and transitioning to female and being on hormones, the youthfulness really comes out more, but I have good genes. I've been following this shitshow and my friend and I just make fun of Fremer and co. any chance we get. The fact Fremer wanted Geoff Edgers to revise his article because he was "misrepresented" shows he has really thin skin and a huge ego. He hasn't learned the ego is an illusion, a shell. I subscribe to Esposito's channel, 45 RPM Audiophile and Ken Micallef's but refuse to for Fremer because a) I don't deal with vinyl, b) it's too impractical for me and c) he's an asshat. I do have my issues with Micallef because he tends to always argue the superiority of original BN pressings (or Liberty and UA era) over Tone Poet's etc. I've heard many TP's sound spectacular. The other issue I have with Micallef (I have to respect he's done far more interviews than I have but I know how it works) he often looks very stupid because he does poor research at times, and has gotten embarrassed in certain interviewers. His beef with the Miles estate and him crapping on Miles with Jazz Sheppard (another buffoon) is ridiculous. I happen to be friends with Vince Wilburn, we are in Lenny White's Zoom chats most weeks, after the fire he checked on me several times to see if I was cool. The business side is one thing, the personal quite another, he's a nice guy. Lenny is great fun too, sometimes I'll just call him and chat. I think Jazz Sheppard (not the place for this) has white guilt and for some reason Miles is a threat to him... someone dead for over 30 years threatens you that much? You need help! On 8/7/2022 at 3:50 PM, bresna said: I've been reading about this over on the Hoffman forums and I've tried to hold back on posting about it because I'm afraid my attitude might upset a few posters. I think this is awesome. It finally shut up all of the golden eared music listeners who claimed that only AAA can sound good and that they can "hear" analog. I've been saying for years that analog in and of itself does not guarantee great sound but nothing I've said has had any effect on most of them and the Hoffman forums' rules preclude anyone from calling them out on it. Mobile Fidelity finally showed them that the emperor has no clothes. Michael Fremer would never concede embarassment, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted August 12, 2022 Report Share Posted August 12, 2022 On 8/7/2022 at 11:01 AM, hopkins said: I'm an audiophile! But I'm not obsessed with getting the best versions of albums, especially considering how costly it would be. When I have the choice I avoid purchasing bad quality versions issued by "dodgy" labels - if I can find one from a known "respectable" label at a reasonable price. I'll spend more for Mosaic box sets, and have quite a few, but it's really about the music offered (and the liner notes). I don't really care how the "manufacturing process" works, and I'm happy with CDs, I don't care whether it's digital or analog. In fact, I just received yesterday Mosaic's latest But if you purchase one of these MOFi albums, then you are really paying for the quality of the manufacturing process only, not for the music or liner notes. From an economic standpoint, I'd rather see money spend on preserving music, issuing unreleased material, and generally contributing to our knowledge of the music, than see people spend large amounts of money on one more version of "Kind of Blue". So I guess I don't have much sympathy for either side in this MOFi fiasco. I'm with you on this. I like to get the best versions when I can, thankfully after the fire when I rebuilt my system and collection, my friend's dad gave me a bunch of OOP Japanese CD's, SACD'S and I'm very happy with. I have about 60 ish SACD and dig it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted August 14, 2022 Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 On 8/7/2022 at 3:50 PM, bresna said: I've been reading about this over on the Hoffman forums and I've tried to hold back on posting about it because I'm afraid my attitude might upset a few posters. I think this is awesome. It finally shut up all of the golden eared music listeners who claimed that only AAA can sound good and that they can "hear" analog. I've been saying for years that analog in and of itself does not guarantee great sound but nothing I've said has had any effect on most of them and the Hoffman forums' rules preclude anyone from calling them out on it. Mobile Fidelity finally showed them that the emperor has no clothes. What rules are you referring to? The mods over there will ban you at the drop of a hat so you do have to be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted August 14, 2022 Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 It's funny how different our ears are. I've known audiophiles who don't notice if an instrument is out of tune. You can be very sensitive to acoustics and room characteristics, but you can't tell the difference between a major and minor chord. On the other hand, I've known musicians with huge ears who would listen to scratchy records on cheap Pansonic bedroom stereos and be perfectly happy. Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted August 15, 2022 Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 23 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said: It's funny how different our ears are. I've known audiophiles who don't notice if an instrument is out of tune. You can be very sensitive to acoustics and room characteristics, but you can't tell the difference between a major and minor chord. On the other hand, I've known musicians with huge ears who would listen to scratchy records on cheap Pansonic bedroom stereos and be perfectly happy. Strange. Many audiophiles listen to their system more than the music itself, and many end up playing only well recorded music that will sound good on their systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted August 15, 2022 Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, hopkins said: Many audiophiles listen to their system more than the music itself, and many end up playing only well recorded music that will sound good on their systems. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted August 15, 2022 Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 On 8/14/2022 at 8:52 AM, Brad said: What rules are you referring to? The mods over there will ban you at the drop of a hat so you do have to be careful. There are posters over in that thread that should be called for their asinine statements about "hearing digital" but you just can't do that over there. Over there, "I hear this" is irrefutable, even if you can point out that they said differently in the past. It gets so tiring over there, especially now that many of the posters on that thread bashing MoFi and digital audio in general are the same ones who were raving about these pressings for years - YEARS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted August 15, 2022 Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 8 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said: Exactly. Hence a lot of the tired same ol same ol titles I see on the SACD lovers group on FB. I listen to music on my system because I love it, it just so happens I have many albums that are reference material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Many years ago I became friends with a guy who "loved jazz" and our tastes seemed to intersect. I soon discovered he was one of those audiophile dudes who constantly wanted to "A/B" new to old versions of CDs (pre-vinyl craze). Although I am not immune to "upgrading" because something "sounds better" (maybe/sometimes), the A/B thing was definitely not for me. I have also nosed around the Hoffman board and find some of those discussions depressing. Nasty, snarky and pretty self-absorbed. And endless. Hundreds of pages of getting the last word in Maybe coming of age in the 70s, with cassettes 8-tracks and Radio Shack stereos, has made me easy to please, but I have found I can assemble an amazing system for a couple thousand bucks. Edited August 17, 2022 by Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 11 hours ago, Eric said: ...but I have found I can assemble an amazing system for a couple bucks. It's like wine. Most of us can taste the difference between an $8 bottle and a $25 bottle, but many of us may not be able to taste the difference between, say, a $50 bottle and a $100 bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 and some us don't drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 On 8/15/2022 at 10:06 AM, bresna said: There are posters over in that thread that should be called for their asinine statements about "hearing digital" but you just can't do that over there. Over there, "I hear this" is irrefutable, even if you can point out that they said differently in the past. It gets so tiring over there, especially now that many of the posters on that thread bashing MoFi and digital audio in general are the same ones who were raving about these pressings for years - YEARS. True. I never get involved in those discussions as I find they have little to offer, especially the Tone Poet thread. The Listening to Jazz thread has very little of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Brad said: True. I never get involved in those discussions as I find they have little to offer, especially the Tone Poet thread. The Listening to Jazz thread has very little of that. The Tone Poet thread reads to me like a bunch of guys discovering Blue Note LPs for the first time and going into communal ecstasy over it, with ‘n’ positive feedback loops hard-wired in. Maybe I could relate to it 40 years ago but now it is a bore. All those pics with their TP ‘platter du jour’ cover propped up in display holder next to turntable - snore.... The thread is useful to find out what is coming up on the release schedule though. Edited August 21, 2022 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 50 minutes ago, sidewinder said: The Tone Poet thread reads to me like a bunch of guys discovering Blue Note LPs for the first time and going into communal ecstasy over it, with ‘n’ positive feedback loops hard-wired in. Maybe I could relate to it 40 years ago but now it is a bore. All those pics with their TP ‘platter du jour’ cover propped up in display holder next to turntable - snore.... The thread is useful to find out what is coming up on the release schedule though. The thing that bothers me about that Tone Poet thread is that they talk like every Tone Poet LP is the greatest Jazz recording ever made. You can't really even argue with them about it or you get shut down, particularly if Scotti likes it. They're over there raving about fringe Blue Note dates that didn't sell back in Blue Note's heyday and didn't sell on CD, like sessions from George Braith or Don Wilkerson (to name a couple). Now they are suddenly classic Blue Note records that must be in everyone's collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 The Don Wilkerson album that must be in everyone's collection is The Texas Twister. and for George Braith, it's Musart. Laughing Soul as well if there's room for two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 21, 2022 Report Share Posted August 21, 2022 41 minutes ago, JSngry said: The Don Wilkerson album that must be in everyone's collection is The Texas Twister. Amen to that!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam_44 Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 the Hoffman board had surpassed 1000 pages on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 1 hour ago, jcam_44 said: the Hoffman board had surpassed 1000 pages on this topic. All pithy comments I’m sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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