First Monk recording of Round Midnight?

[medjuck]

httpIs://storyvillerecords.bandcamp.com/album/timmes-treasures

Am  I the only one who didn't know about this record?  (Of course I've now ordered it.) 

[jazzbo]

I'm sure you're not the only one, but I have had it since it's released--not sure where I heard about its release, possibly on the Steve Hoffman forum thread I started.

[JSngry]

7 minutes ago, medjuck said:

(Of course I've now ordered it.) 

Same.

[Ken Dryden]

I’ve had it since it was released thoughI had forgotten what was on it.

[JSngry]

Beaucoup Don Byas!

[kh1958]

Allen Lowe

1.0 out of 5 stars stay away: this label uses terrible mastering and Noise Reduction techniques

Reviewed in the United States on April 16, 2019

Verified Purchase

botched sound. Music is great, but they have destroyed it.

 

According to Mr. Lowe on amazon...

[Big Beat Steve]

I bought my CD copy several years ago (as a welcome adition to the "swing-era reissues that do not duplicate what I already have" corner although in this case it is first issues, of course) and liked it but haven't listened to it in quite a while - so thanks for the reminder of its existence. Time to pull it out again.

I don't think I am qualified enough to comment on Allen Lowe's assessment of the mastering. I trust his judgment but OTOH who knows what fidelity problems the source recordings may have had.

[Gheorghe]

Most be great ! The only early Monk I heard was on some Minton tapes, maybe under the name of Charlie Christian, which has a lot of Monk solos on it. And the early BN-version of Round Midnite where they still didn´t play the intro and the coda, which I think was written by Diz but Monk kept it for the rest of his live. 

I think once I heard also a very early version of "Epistrophy" from the Minton days, I don´t know if it was on a record, there is so many stuff I just heard once and remembered it. 

The Danish Jazz Baron sure was very important and it´s great there is some of his tapes. 

There is an anecdote told by Rosenkrantz that once in the early fifties he wanted to aproach Bud Powell and not knowing how it start conversation he asked Bud what time it is, and Bud didn´t answer. Many many years later, Bud saw Mr. Rosenkrantz and said to him "it´s  (told the time) ´o clock right now, Mr. Baron !" . 

[mikeweil]

3 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

I think once I heard also a very early version of "Epistrophy" from the Minton days, I don´t know if it was on a record, there is so many stuff I just heard once and remembered it. 

If it exists, this new Monk Discography should list it! https://jazzdiscography.com/Artists/thelonious-monk/thelonious-monk-discography.php

[Gheorghe]

Thanks, I saw the Charlie Christian material I have and the trumpet battle at Minton with Joe Guy and Lips, and so on. 

Other labels, like "Moon" I think were short lived bootlegs......, 

Yes, here I see short excerps of "Epistrophy" just as a closer, it is possible that I heard such at some source or place.....

By the way: I love to play "Epistrophy"...... we did it with the great Allan Praskin as . 

[JSngry]

 

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Gheorghe said:

Other labels, like "Moon" I think were short lived bootlegs......,

Moon reissued a couple of the earlier Xanadu and Onyx LPs 1-to-1 on CD, even imitating the cover artwork. I had one or two but don't have them anymore (found the corresponding LPs so stuck with my vinyls).

[JSngry]

Have there been any educated guesses as to further updates to the personnel on this? The cuts with Monk are not yet listed on that online discography, but more than that, the altoist on "Let's Go" is an oddly incompetent yet compelling amalgam of Pete Brown and Bird. In 1944!

And the early 1945 unknown group on the Frank Froeba/Stuff Smith group "I Got Rhythm" starts playing "Dizzy Atmosphere", including the bridge, on their way out. This might have been before it was even recorded, so who are these people already knowing it? How possible is that? 

[medjuck]

On 10/11/2022 at 5:17 PM, JSngry said:

Have there been any educated guesses as to further updates to the personnel on this? The cuts with Monk are not yet listed on that online discography, but more than that, the altoist on "Let's Go" is an oddly incompetent yet compelling amalgam of Pete Brown and Bird. In 1944!

And the early 1945 unknown group on the Frank Froeba/Stuff Smith group "I Got Rhythm" starts playing "Dizzy Atmosphere", including the bridge, on their way out. This might have been before it was even recorded, so who are these people already knowing it? How possible is that? 

Lord lists  Don  Byas and Lucky Thompson both on tenor on "Let's Go"   (I got Rhythm). Losin lists the first Bird and Dizzy recording of  Dizzy Atmosphere  as early 1945. (February 28)   And who knows if it was new then. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by medjuck

[Niko]

The altoist for Let's Go has been listed as possibly Kirtland Bradford, e.g. here

https://attictoys.com/lucky-thompson-discography-1943-1950/

(but that's not where that info comes from). Bradford was lead altoist with Jimmie Lunceford around that time and much later a teacher of Arthur Blythe. Typical Bradford features w Lunceford were not heavy on improvisation, The Jimmies was discussed in another thread earlier, another one is Meditation from a Jubilee show

 

One session where Bradford plays a few jazzier solos is with the Joe Thomas Sextet on Melodisc, (Frontline of Bradford, Thomas and Russell Green on trumpet plus the Lunceford rhythm section)

I am no expert but my hunch would be that it could be him on Let's Go, trying to make sense of stuff he heard the last few nights in New York or so... 

[EKE BBB]

2 hours ago, Niko said:

The altoist for Let's Go has been listed as possibly Kirtland Bradford, e.g. here

https://attictoys.com/lucky-thompson-discography-1943-1950/

(...)

I am no expert but my hunch would be that it could be him on Let's Go, trying to make sense of stuff he heard the last few nights in New York or so... 

Bradford is also listed in Jan Evensmo's solography of Lucky Thompson.

There was a long discussion on this subject at FB a few weeks ago, with many qualified participants (among them, Loren Schoenberg, Nick Rossi, Benny Green, Dan Weinstein or Scott Hamilton).

Apart from Bradford, also Rudy Williams and Herbie Fields were suggested.

[JSngry]

I thought it might be that Horsecollar guy at Mintons that Dizzy talked about who couldn't really play but went all in when he did.

Not sure if that guy was Horsecollar Williams, who certainly could play. 

[Jim Duckworth]

14 hours ago, JSngry said:

Have there been any educated guesses as to further updates to the personnel on this? The cuts with Monk are not yet listed on that online discography, but more than that, the altoist on "Let's Go" is an oddly incompetent yet compelling amalgam of Pete Brown and Bird. In 1944!

And the early 1945 unknown group on the Frank Froeba/Stuff Smith group "I Got Rhythm" starts playing "Dizzy Atmosphere", including the bridge, on their way out. This might have been before it was even recorded, so who are these people already knowing it? How possible is that? 

I've long been fascinated by Sidney De Paris's solo near the end of this record-particularly when he plays Bebop (the Dizzy tune). 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Jim Duckworth