A fine date from '58

[Larry Kart]

"The Other Side of Benny Golson" -- with Curtis Fuller, Barry Harris, Jymie Merritt,  Philly Joe Jones, Re-encounteriong this one on an AVID Golson 4-fer after many years -- bought it when it came out, then it went away somewhere  -- I was delighted by how fine it is.

Interestingly this package includes four albums from a short span of time and lets us witness a welcome development in Golson's playing.

The first two albums -- "The Modern Touch" and "Benny Golson's New York Scene" -- do have their virtues (among them the first recording of "Whisper Not," but after a while one notices on both those 1957 albums  that Golson ends many choruses and even just phrases with the same seemingly compulsive cluster of three notes: Buh-Dee-Dot." Given all the attractive aspects of fluent Golson's soloing, one can't but help find this recurrent  little "tic" a bit annoying.

 On "The Other Side of Benny Golson," though it's nowhere to. be found; nor IIRC does it crop on the final album from the AVID collection, the excellent "Benny Golson and the Philadelphians" from Nov. '58, with Lee Morgan, Percy Heath, Ray Bryant, and Philly Joe. (Lee Morgan's brilliant solo there on "You're Not the Kind" must be heard.) 

But back to "The Other Side of Benny Golson." I think is the first of many pairings of Golson and Fuller -- and what a good pairing it is in phrasing, timbre, and temperament -- Fuller fairly cool and laid back rhythmically with a warm, cloudy tone that blends perfectly with Golson's  urgent honey-bee flow. Add the fact that Barry Harris and Philly Joe are in top form and that Golson contributes several compositional gems -- My favorite is "Are You Real?," later IIRC done by the Messengers after Golson arrived there, but "Strut Time" and "Cry a Blue Tear" are choice as well. One suspects that this was a happy date, and it makes me happy too. 

[Peter Friedman]

These 4 are all goods ones.

As happens to some musicians, Golson's sound and approach changes a bit in his later recordings. In his early albums I hear a Lucky Thompson type of sound. That seems to have disappeared in his later sessions and he sounds a bit more aggressive. 

 

[Joe]

THE OTHER SIDE has always been my favorite from Golson's Riverside tenure. Agree; it's both tight and loose in all the right ways, and the tenor-trombone coloration just works here.

[jlhoots]

He's good on Modern Art too IMHO.

[JSngry]

Kudos as well for that badass cover, lest we be remiss 

[Big Beat Steve]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:23 AM, Larry Kart said:

"The Other Side of Benny Golson" -- with Curtis Fuller, Barry Harris, Jymie Merritt,  Philly Joe Jones, Re-encountering this one on an AVID Golson 4-fer after many years -- bought it when it came out, then it went away somewhere  -- I was delighted by how fine it is.

Interestingly this package includes four albums from a short span of time and lets us witness a welcome development in Golson's playing.

 

Ha ... nice to see a plug for one of these PD compilation packages after all that saves you the hassle of having to hunt down affordable copies in other formats or packages piecemeal. 😉 (And can go into the car CD player once you DID track the vinyls down, for example )

As I so far had hardly any Benny Golson beyond some of the Art Farmer/Jazztet collaboration, around the turn of the year I picked up a copy of the Real Gone Jazz box set when a nicely priced copy showed up in our local #1 record store (this set, in addition ot the 4 you mention, includes "Gone With Golson", "Gettin' With It", "Groovin' With Golson" and "Take a Number form 1 to 10"). And I was very pleased with the contents, particlularly with the "Other Side" or in general the 4 you mention. When I re-listen next I will pay closer attention to that "tic" you metioned.

[Brad]

Avid is one of those pd labels that doesn’t have a good reputation. I’d avoid them. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Brad

[Big Beat Steve]

A matter of perspective. They are among those that cover ground where others just don't tread (and no - it's not a matter of the P.D. laws; the point of what is OK by European P.D. laws for a European-based release - which is the case both for Avid and Real Gone Jazz (RGJ) a.o. - has been made often enough so that's settled).
So far I own only two Avids - Lem Winchester and Sauter Finegan (four albums/2 CDs reach). Now show me ANY US-based "legit" (?) reissue labal that would do a PACKAGE CD reissue on these artists ...
And believe me - I had searched high and low for an affordable copy of "Sons of Sauter-Finegan" but drew a blank (this was largely before the Fresh Sound CD reissue of which I only became aware very recently anyway). So I was pleased to pick up the Avid, though I already owned vinyls of two of the other LPs on the set, particularly in hindsight as it provided good fidelity and decent liner notes (Avid here admittedly is a notch or two above Real Gone Jazz) at half the price of the Fresh Sound single reissue.

So these labels often are good (and, above all, affordable) introductions to an artist's work. (The Benny Golson set definitely was an ear-opener for me)
Like the owner of the record shop (where I bought several of these P.D. RGJ sets some months ago) said when he saw the Jackie McLean and Lee Morgan sets in my stack at the counter: "Just imagine the insane amount of money one would have to shell out for vinyls of each of these - even if they're not original pressings - compared to what these sets include and go for!"
Nuff said ... and like I said before ... they can always go into the car player if you round up the vinyls or other more "collectible" reissue formats later on.

[Larry Kart]

11 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Ha ... nice to see a plug for one of these PD compilation packages after all that saves you the hassle of having to hunt down affordable copies in other formats or packages piecemeal. 😉 (And can go into the car CD player once you DID track the vinyls down, for example )

As I so far had hardly any Benny Golson beyond some of the Art Farmer/Jazztet collaboration, around the turn of the year I picked up a copy of the Real Gone Jazz box set when a nicely priced copy showed up in our local #1 record store (this set, in addition ot the 4 you mention, includes "Gone With Golson", "Gettin' With It", "Groovin' With Golson" and "Take a Number form 1 to 10"). And I was very pleased with the contents, particlularly with the "Other Side" or in general the 4 you mention. When I re-listen next I will pay closer attention to that "tic" you metioned.

Don't know if I captured that "tic" perfectly, there's a little hiccup on the first two notes; you can't miss it. 

[Mark Stryker]

On 4/4/2023 at 8:23 PM, Larry Kart said:

"The Other Side of Benny Golson" -- with Curtis Fuller, Barry Harris, Jymie Merritt,  Philly Joe Jones, Re-encounteriong this one on an AVID Golson 4-fer after many years -- bought it when it came out, then it went away somewhere  -- I was delighted by how fine it is.

Interestingly this package includes four albums from a short span of time and lets us witness a welcome development in Golson's playing.

The first two albums -- "The Modern Touch" and "Benny Golson's New York Scene" -- do have their virtues (among them the first recording of "Whisper Not," but after a while one notices on both those 1957 albums  that Golson ends many choruses and even just phrases with the same seemingly compulsive cluster of three notes: Buh-Dee-Dot." Given all the attractive aspects of fluent Golson's soloing, one can't but help find this recurrent  little "tic" a bit annoying.

 On "The Other Side of Benny Golson," though it's nowhere to. be found; nor IIRC does it crop on the final album from the AVID collection, the excellent "Benny Golson and the Philadelphians" from Nov. '58, with Lee Morgan, Percy Heath, Ray Bryant, and Philly Joe. (Lee Morgan's brilliant solo there on "You're Not the Kind" must be heard.) 

But back to "The Other Side of Benny Golson." I think is the first of many pairings of Golson and Fuller -- and what a good pairing it is in phrasing, timbre, and temperament -- Fuller fairly cool and laid back rhythmically with a warm, cloudy tone that blends perfectly with Golson's  urgent honey-bee flow. Add the fact that Barry Harris and Philly Joe are in top form and that Golson contributes several compositional gems -- My favorite is "Are You Real?," later IIRC done by the Messengers after Golson arrived there, but "Strut Time" and "Cry a Blue Tear" are choice as well. One suspects that this was a happy date, and it makes me happy too. 

Thanks for this.

For the record, these are the 10 records issued under either Golson or Fuller's name that feature both of them in a tenor/trombone front line. All of these are Golson-led except for the two "Blues-ette" dates and "Legend of Jazz Club," which appears to be co-led.  Of course, there are many other recordings where others join them on the front line. 

"The Other Side of Benny Golson" (11/58)

"Blues-ette" (5/59)

"Gone with Golson" (6/59)

"Groovin' with Golson" (8/59)

"Gettin' with It" (12/59)

"Are You Real" (8/77)

"One More Mem'ry" (8/81)

"Domingo" (11/91)

"Blues-ette Part 2" (1/93)

"Legend of Jazz Club" (9/98)

Edited April 7, 2023 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

Are there any other fine dates from '58?

[Dan Gould]

Pretty sure I could listen to dates from 1958 and be perfectly happy for a good long time.  But I am not going to go look them up.

[Larry Kart]

Thanks, Mark. I have a fair number of those Golson/Fuller albums.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On 4/6/2023 at 8:51 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

Now show me ANY US-based "legit" (?) reissue labal that would do a PACKAGE CD reissue on these artists ...

No legitimate company would do this box set because they'd actually have to pay for the right to release. You seem to act like crooks selling you stuff is great since it's something you want.

Back in my college days, I was once offered a high-end stereo system new-in-box for $200. Yeah it was stolen, but there was no other way I could afford this stereo system. I guess I should have just bought it since no legit store would sell it to me for that price.

[Big Beat Steve]

You seem to forget the legality angle in accordance with EUROPEAN P.D. laws. Like it or not, they ARE indeed legit in Europe, i.e. because they are being manufactured in Europe and are marketed on THIS continent. If you really want to go the "crook" route, then you would have to search for the "crooks" where these sets are being sold and bought OUTSIDE the actual area of applicability of EUROPEAN P.D. laws. 
But you are getting OT anyway. Not least of all because this point (about the areas of applicability of laws) has been made often enough.

What remains is that Mr Kart's recommendation of this particular record was a good one IMO, and its availability on the box sets mentioned does help to spread the musical message, everything considered. Particularly since Concord as the holder of the Fantasy catalog (i.e. including Riverside) has shown singularly little interest in putting that catalog back in print at all (let alone keeping it in print). And trying to sneak CD-Rs onto the buying public (something that Avid or RGJ cannot be accused of at any rate) doesn't help either.

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Big Beat Steve

[sidewinder]

Can’t say I’ve ever been tempted with any of these Avid reissues, no matter what the price. It’s a shame that there are no better options for this music but I guess that over here at least, they are ‘legal’.

Ironic that they use the name ‘Avid’ as I usually associate it with very high end German turntables costing megabucks.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:20 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

You seem to forget the legality angle in accordance with EUROPEAN P.D. laws. Like it or not, they ARE indeed legit in Europe, i.e. because they are being manufactured in Europe and are marketed on THIS continent.

But you specifically mentioned "US-based" in your post. I replied accordingly.

And editing to add...

Post-Brexit, the UK reverted back to their old music copyright laws, which is now set at "70 years from when it’s first published" (https://www.gov.uk/copyright/how-long-copyright-lasts). Avid is still in the UK the last I looked. Therefore, PD is currently 1953 or earlier in the UK. These Avid CD sets ARE NOT legit in the UK.

Edited April 10, 2023 by bresna

[Big Beat Steve]

I hope Larry Kart will bear with me for adding another layer to this OT part of the subject of this topic ...
There just may be a little misunderstanding of the copyright extension described in your above link. I was wondering whether the change of the UK laws (i.e. the copyright protection period extension from 50 to 70 years) was retroactively applicable or not (remember the change that became effective in the EU in 2012 remained NON-retroactive).
It just might be the gov.uk link above only refers to the laws applicable to recordings not yet in the public domain.
On searching the web I found several statements to this effect:

"UK copyright law changed in November 2013. Term of copyright in sound recordings has been extended non-retroactively from 50 to 70 years. Under this new law recordings made from 1963 onwards will remain under copyright control until at least 2034. Recordings made in 1962 or earlier remain in the public domain.
Of course the Tories are planning to throw all EU related laws away at the end of this year which would include this one, so that may have been an impetus behind releasing it now. "

This particular quote comes from a current discussion re- a Beatles reissue on the Steve Hoffman forum.

I have not yet been able to find any unequivocal statement on the retroactive applicability of the new 70-year term in in the UK. If anything were indeed retroactively applicable in the UK by now then UK-based labels like not only Avid but also Jasmine (that all do a LOT of reissues the contents of which - wonder of wonders - end in 1962 ) would really be going out on a limb and getting themselves into hot water ... Is this that likely?

So what I was referring to were European public-domain reissues that comply with the 50-year cutoff date applicable when the new (EU) laws were passed in 2012.

As for US labels I was referring to, obviously this has no bearing on what European labels do for the European market (these labels being sold to the US as well is another matter but is of no concern to European customers) but rather was a matter of wondering whether there were any US labels that would step in to cover this kind of artists at all. And if - as it evidently is the case - not even a US label that does not even have pay for licensing because it OWNS the rights (Concord!) can't be bothered, then this is getting treacherously close to "use it or lose it" - in those parts of the world where copyright laws okay this practice anyway.
 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Big Beat Steve

[Brad]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:47 AM, sidewinder said:

Can’t say I’ve ever been tempted with any of these Avid reissues, no matter what the price. It’s a shame that there are no better options for this music but I guess that over here at least, they are ‘legal’.

Ironic that they use the name ‘Avid’ as I usually associate it with very high end German turntables costing megabucks.

In this case legal and inexpensive doesn’t mean good.

I expect we will now have another long post about copyright law in the EU. 

[JSngry]

[T.D.]

40 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yowzah.

But in hindsight, that could have been the apex of Anna Rawson's golf career...2010 was the last of her 3 seasons on the LPGA tour, and that season was practically over by the time the "Fall 2010" issue hit the streets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Rawson

[Courtesy of Google. 😉 I don't follow golf, but the name rang no bells so I just had to inquire.]

Edited April 10, 2023 by T.D.

[JSngry]

I wonder if she went the half-ass PD route. That would explain her subsequent lack of professionality.