felser Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 27 minutes ago, mjzee said: I own one of those 3 CD boots, and am very happy with it. No desire to buy an LP box set and pay that astronomical price. If the main allure of the LP box (other than improved sound quality) is that it's licensed from the Mingus estate, then just tell me where I can send a $20 bill directly to the estate as royalties for owning the CD set. +1 on all counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 On 2/5/2024 at 2:10 AM, Ken Dryden said: Maybe his son is running it? Which one ? Anyway, hopefully someone who will concentrate not only on early or middle period of Mingus, but later concert or festival appearances...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 On 2/5/2024 at 9:07 AM, gvopedz said: Some of the people who release LPs (or albums) believe that collectors of jazz music have an above-average income. I have always had an average income, and I bought tons of jazz. But I have my limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 we should be complaining about wage stagnation and the cost of housing relative to the cost of our jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvopedz Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Since this topic started with Mingus and is now alluding to political economy, here is a video that shows Mingus at the Jimmy Carter White House: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 On 2/4/2024 at 10:11 PM, david weiss said: I actually don't know specifically. Jazz Workshop had/has a staff and I'm sure Sue left specific instructions about the continuation of the Mingus Estate. The Mingus Big Band is still working as well so I assume it's still pretty much business as usual with a staff that knows what they are doing. Yes, I believe her son Robert Ungaro took over but he works closely with the Mingus organization, I don't think he plays the same role as Sue. I met him briefly at Sue's NEA Jazz Masters induction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 On 2/4/2024 at 9:33 PM, tranemonk said: WTF is it with these vinyl-only releases of stuff that's never been out before?... It's bugging me for those of us who don't want to go back to 1972.... It's about asking horrendous prices .... and creating artificial "collector items" .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 On 2/6/2024 at 10:24 PM, gvopedz said: Since this topic started with Mingus and is now alluding to political economy, here is a video that shows Mingus at the Jimmy Carter White House: Thank you for showing this. So sad, I remember how I cried when I saw that. Due to lack of infos over here in Europe we still thought that Mingus is active and playing. I think "Cumbia" came out right that spring and I recognized to great suite I had witnessed live less than one year before. So the death of Mingus literarly shocked me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 I remember seeing photos of Mingus at the event in Jazz Journal I think. Very sad. Is that Cecil Taylor sat with Mary Lou Williams on the footage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 It is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 On 2/5/2024 at 6:43 AM, Dan Gould said: He didn't define "collectors of jazz" but I've been an obsessive collector for 30+ years and never risen above any definition of 'average' income. So right there your presumption that this belief is accurate fails. And, if jazz is attracting younger people at all you inevitably have a large proportion of less than average means. If younger people only purchase new recordings (or stream them) then perhaps the collectors are all made up of the older, more affluent cohort. But that's not likely. Generalizations can be accurate with individual cases being exceptions. So the presumption doesn't fail based on your one case, same as my individual case (also not being more well-to-do) doesn't disprove the accuracy of the generalization. And I think it is safe to say that most jazz vinyl collectors skew older and more well-to-do. I would hope that that isn't always the case. I think your second point has an embedded really important point. Younger, not-wealthy buyers need to see some less expensive releases in order to buy the vinyl, so that there will be a future for jazz. Here in Los Angeles (big city), there are solid crowds for experimental and improvised music (and very small audiences as well), but I don't know if many of those people are looking at buying jazz from the 1940s-80s, and at $30 or $40 a record, they aren't likely to pick any up on a lark. Limited edition high-cost box sets from New Land (last year's Dorothy Ashby, and now this) aren't really going to be the primary practice of the industry; these are exceptions, and may or may not find enough buyers at that price point. It costs a lot to do all the work for a nice box set - restoration, paying for essays, licensing images & music, pressing records, storage, paying personnel to administer, assembly, shipping etc for a product that will never have mass sales. And their break-even point needs to be somewhere below selling all 1000 copies. I mean, I won't buy it, and they probably won't sell all 1000. Would they sell them all if they priced it at $100? $75? That doesn't seem likely either. Might as well price it high, so they can break even after selling X number (200? 300?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 17 hours ago, JSngry said: It is. Was there more music from that event recorded ! I think once I heard an incredible all star setting, that played "April" and maybe "Caravan" with Diz, Dex, George Benson, Herbie, Ron, Tony Williams ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 5 hours ago, Gheorghe said: Was there more music from that event recorded ! I think once I heard an incredible all star setting, that played "April" and maybe "Caravan" with Diz, Dex, George Benson, Herbie, Ron, Tony Williams ? The whole thing was broadcast live on NPR, so I'm sure that recorded documentation, official and otherwise, exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 On 2/5/2024 at 9:43 AM, Dan Gould said: He didn't define "collectors of jazz" but I've been an obsessive collector for 30+ years and never risen above any definition of 'average' income. So right there your presumption that this belief is accurate fails. And, if jazz is attracting younger people at all you inevitably have a large proportion of less than average means. If younger people only purchase new recordings (or stream them) then perhaps the collectors are all made up of the older, more affluent cohort. But that's not likely. There are a fair amount of younger people who also don't fool around with physical media in the traditional sense (digital objects being physical in another sense). $150 LP boxed sets are nothing new, but it seems like there should be a cheaper option. I also do not have a better-than-average income and have been collecting for over 25 years. Then again, there are a lot more millionaires now than there were when I started collecting, and a lot more poor people who don't have time to think about $150 Mingus boxed sets as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted February 9 Author Report Share Posted February 9 One also wonders whether, given the limited edition and high cost, it's really aimed at speculators, which is especially ironic given that the music originated in over-the-air broadcasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 yeah, the grip-and-flip secondary market for limited edition new releases is a bummer. That happened big time with the Resonance Ayler box, though I was lucky to get one no problem on RSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Interestingly, or not, the Special Thanks in the booklet starts with Sue Mingus so maybe she was involved with the project 1 minute ago, clifford_thornton said: yeah, the grip-and-flip secondary market for limited edition new releases is a bummer. That happened big time with the Resonance Ayler box, though I was lucky to get one no problem on RSD. And there's plenty available these days and not at mad prices the last I looked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 ha, the speculators' market must've cooled then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 4 hours ago, clifford_thornton said: ha, the speculators' market must've cooled then. There have been discussions on the board about how Mosaic secondary market prices have normalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 On 2/6/2024 at 4:24 PM, gvopedz said: Since this topic started with Mingus and is now alluding to political economy, here is a video that shows Mingus at the Jimmy Carter White House: It was one of the high points of the Carter administration, along with the performance of Vladimir Horowitz, which was also broadcast live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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