Solo Saxophone

[soulpope]

Another vote for Steve Lacy ....  his solo Thelonious Monk introspections are treasurous .... btw witnessed with forum member "blacksaint" David Murray solo @ Jazzgalerie Nickelsdorf in the early 1980's, resulting in an unforgettable experience ....

[jcam_44]

My Favorite : 

Vinny Golia - Solo

[mikeweil]

17 hours ago, jazztrain said:

There's a new solo release by James Carter on baritone saxophone:

That should be one for me ....

[Dub Modal]

20 hours ago, colinmce said:

Makoto Kawashima – Homo Sacer are both fascinating

This one is good. Reminds me I need to give it another listen. 

[mhatta]

My favorite is Lee Konitz's Lone-Lee.   Almost 40 min of "The Song Is You" is a small wonder.

st

[clifford_thornton]

That Golia LP is strong, yes. Maury Coles' Solo Saxophone Record on Onari is another good one.

I'm not sure how to categorize overdub fantasias like Mario Schiano and his All-Stars or Rahsaan's Natural Black Inventions: Root Strata, but they are solo records by people who play saxophones!

[mjazzg]

4 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

This one is good. Reminds me I need to give it another listen. 

Me too, need to dig it out

[Big Beat Steve]

On 5/20/2024 at 5:53 PM, JSngry said:

It starts here:

 

And predated by "Hawk's Variations" Pt. 1 and Pt. 2 recorded by Coleman Hawkins as unaccompanied tenor solos for the Baronet label (probably in early 1945, according to some discographers).

[clifford_thornton]

good to know; I had thought Picasso was the first to be released.

[JSngry]

56 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

And predated by "Hawk's Variations" Pt. 1 and Pt. 2 recorded by Coleman Hawkins as unaccompanied tenor solos for the Baronet label (probably in early 1945, according to some discographers).

Actually recorded for the Selmer label?

But yes, I had also forgotten about that one!

[JSngry]

Some old discussion here:

 

[Big Beat Steve]

13 hours ago, JSngry said:

Actually recorded for the Selmer label?

But yes, I had also forgotten about that one!

As for Selmer, I don't know which was first - not even 100% so after reading the old thread from 2004 linked above. I know it was released on the French Selmer label but the Bruyninckx discography lists a Baronet release number first, so I assumed the recording was released in the US first and then adopted by Selmer for release on the French market.
Maybe I'll find a review of this record in my old copies of Jazz Hot that will provide further clues.

[soulpope]

20 hours ago, mhatta said:

My favorite is Lee Konitz's Lone-Lee.   Almost 40 min of "The Song Is You" is a small wonder.

Agreed, forgot about this one ....

[JSngry]

5 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

As for Selmer, I don't know which was first - not even 100% so after reading the old thread from 2004 linked above. I know it was released on the French Selmer label but the Bruyninckx discography lists a Baronet release number first, so I assumed the recording was released in the US first and then adopted by Selmer for release on the French market.
Maybe I'll find a review of this record in my old copies of Jazz Hot that will provide further clues.

It makes sense to me that the Selmer company would produce such a then-unusual record to promote their product. They were top-of-the line, but still had competition. So this was definitely a "prestige" product, the best player playing the best instrument.

Didn't Baronet end up owned by Savoy? Savoy never released it.

It's often described as "the rarest" Hawk item, so...would a Baronet record be that rare?

[Big Beat Steve]

I wouldn't disagree abut Selmer. But it seemed surprising to me that this was first released in France and not in the USA. So I (apparently mistakenly) assumed that the US Baronet release listed in the Bruyninckx discography was the first one.

[JSngry]

I don't think it was released as a commercial record for sale in record stores. It seems to have been a promo tool for Selmer saxophones. The Selmer factory was in Paris.

More details would be welcome, if there are any still around.

[Big Beat Steve]

I am not so sure. The label shown further above with a catalog no. of Y 7129 looks like this number came out of an ongoing series. "Jazz - American Series" reads like this was a release series of masters originally recorded in the USA (there were PLENTY of labels in early post-war France - and certain other European countries - that thrived on such release practices).

Discogs shows these from that "Jazz-American Series" series (and their listing may well be incomplete):

https://www.discogs.com/label/1297501-Jazz-American-Series

And Discogs has this on the Selmer label as such:

https://www.discogs.com/label/391701-Selmer?page=1

I am not sure what "Série Medium" means for this label but it looks like one of several record series released in parallel.

 

BTW, I stand corrected (again ...) for the BARONET release of these tracks: According to Discogs this was a DANISH re-release following the Selmer release (on a label launched by BARON Timme Rosenkrantz - shouldn't we have guessed?):

https://www.discogs.com/release/20436736-Coleman-Hawkins-Hawks-Variations

I'll check my (complete) collection of Jazz Hot from that period to see if there is a review of Y-7129 somewhere but this will take time.

 

Edited May 23, 2024 by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

Parent Label:

Henri Selmer Paris

That's the instrument manufacturer.

[Big Beat Steve]

Of course.
And according to Discogs the Selmer RECORD label was related to Ducretet Thomson (distribution? Some other Selmer 78s had identical catalog numbers on both Selmer and Ducretet Thomson). And the same source says the Hawk Variations record was presed by Pathé Marconi.
 

[clifford_thornton]

Here you go: https://www.discogs.com/label/26613-Ducretet-Thomson?page=1

Ducretet was a scientific instrumentation company (responsible for early phonographs) and eventually partnered with Thomson, a large French communications corporation tied to GE. It appears to me that Ducretet Thomson, Selmer, and Pathé were linked in the production of phonograph discs. The Selmer version of this 78 is very cool-looking!

Edited May 23, 2024 by clifford_thornton
word choice

[JSngry]

I'd love to hear who/how the first jazz solo saxophone recording came to be made. Who had the idea and how did they make it happen?

Surely Hawk was involved in the planning. He was just so ready!

And other than Hawk, there seems to have been no American involvement?

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I'll check my (complete) collection of Jazz Hot from that period to see if there is a review of Y-7129 somewhere but this will take time.

 

Actually it didn't.
Looking for a Selmer ad in these mags with the exact typeface used on the record label (and figuring on the instruments) - their ads from 1946 had a plain sans-serif "SELMER" typeface - I randomly pulled out the September 1950 issue and found the below ad on page 2:

Wondering if this ad might be intended as a plug for a Selmer product inside the mag I looked up the Record Reviews section, and lo and behold, there was the review of "Hawk's Variations"!
FWIW, here is what it says (translated relatively faithfully to stick to the tone of the French scribe - André Clergeat, it seems):

"This is certainly one of the most original records we have had the pleasure of reviewing for a long time. What we have here is an unaccompanied improvisation by Coleman Hawkins. This just about says enough about how this record is bound to unsettle most fans.
Provided our informations are correct, this recording was made by Moe Asch at the same time as the recording published by Norman Granz in his recent "Jazz Scene" album.
Coleman Hawkins had been longing for an opportunity to make an unaccompanied recording for quite some time, and this listening experience certainly is most interesting. The lack of a rhythm section does not detract in any way from the pleasure any admirer of the great saxophonist will derive from listening to this recording where his sumptuous sonority really comes into its own.
His improvisations develop into magnificent arabesques throughout both sides of the disc, and keen listeners will rapidly have imagined by themselves the rhythmic and hamronic accompaniment to go with this performance."

On a side note, this review is followed by a brief review of Selmer Y 7136 (not listed on Discogs; Erroll Garner  - The Man I Love/Don't Blame Me).
 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2024 by Big Beat Steve

[clifford_thornton]

that's very cool!

[JSngry]

Recorded at the same session as Picasso?

Let's question that assertion.

Or maybe Picasso was recorded a few years before release by Granz?

Otherwise, Moe Asch. That makes total sense.

I took the familiarity of the Selmer logi for granted, having played them fo 50+ years. But not everybody has had that exposure LOL!

Another factor - Selmer was at this time really upping the game of saxophone technology. From the Balance Action to the Super Action to the Mark VI, Selmer horns were always developing means for easier, faster fingering and a more easily even tone. They had competition from King, Conn, and Buescher, but Selmer pushed hard and eventually won the game (the King Super 20 was the last real competitor).

Ask anybody who has played other vintage horns - they can sound great and be played fluently, but it takes work. A Selmer (from Balanced Actions on) "solve" those "issues".

Selmer went off tack for a while in the 70s, and today's players have all kinds of options. But at the time under discussion here, Selmer was in a kind of war to prove there superior technology, and they were fighting it to win.

All that to say that if you wanted to position your product as a master horn for a master player, Coleman Hawkins was your guy.

So that particular record on that label totally makes sense.

[Big Beat Steve]

14 hours ago, JSngry said:

Recorded at the same session as Picasso?

Let's question that assertion.

Or maybe Picasso was recorded a few years before release by Granz?

Otherwise, Moe Asch. That makes total sense.

I took the familiarity of the Selmer logi for granted, having played them fo 50+ years. But not everybody has had that exposure LOL!

Another factor - Selmer was at this time really upping the game of saxophone technology. From the Balance Action to the Super Action to the Mark VI, Selmer horns were always developing means for easier, faster fingering and a more easily even tone. They had competition from King, Conn, and Buescher, but Selmer pushed hard and eventually won the game (the King Super 20 was the last real competitor).

Ask anybody who has played other vintage horns - they can sound great and be played fluently, but it takes work. A Selmer (from Balanced Actions on) "solve" those "issues".

Selmer went off tack for a while in the 70s, and today's players have all kinds of options. But at the time under discussion here, Selmer was in a kind of war to prove there superior technology, and they were fighting it to win.

All that to say that if you wanted to position your product as a master horn for a master player, Coleman Hawkins was your guy.

So that particular record on that label totally makes sense.

About the presumed recording date: Remember this was the state of discographical knowledge as of 1950. Superseded long since.

As for the Selmer logo, I am aware the one on the record label is the one used on the instruments. As Selmer used a different (simpler) logo in their magazine ads in 1947/48 (actually using different typefaces here and there), however, these ads are no indicators of when the releases of the records on the Selmer label (using the same Selmer logo) may have started. I have just checked a few more Jazz Hots from that period, and the first one that features the actual Selmer logo in their instrument ads is from March 1949. Now when did releases on the Selmer label actually start and how long after their recording session did "Hawk Variations" stay in the can?

 

Edited May 24, 2024 by Big Beat Steve