Kenny Burrell - On View At The Five Spot Cafe (Complete?)

[david weiss]

2 hours ago, jazzbo said:

Rather than these I'd like to see the first 15 years or so of the label reissued with the current technology to digital (Redbook, SACD). Not going to happen but what I would prefer to see as a project.

I liked that for the Van Gelder series, they went back to the original master tapes for the early 1500 (1500-1511) series releases so there was no added reverb like all the subsequent releases of this material after the original issue. The problem was I didn't like Van Gelder's remastering of the material but still listened because it still sounded so superior to the versions with added reverb. I assume some of these releases have been remastered from the original analog tapes for vinyl in the last couple of years.

23 hours ago, JSngry said:

This Bud's for you!

 

Absolutely!

[felser]

49 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Besides, he's doing good work now.

I sincerely hadn't noticed, tuned out years ago, as guys like Robert Glasper didn't do it for me.   Who should I be hearing from their recent catalog?

[david weiss]

On 4/29/2025 at 8:06 PM, felser said:

Understood on David's comments, and agreed.  We didn't learn anything new from Just Coolin' (it was OK, but really just product), and I can 't imagine we will from the extra cuts here.  Thankfully, in some cases, like the Elvin and the Tyner/Henderson, we do learn something new by hearing them.  There's other stuff in (and out of) the BN vaults I'd rather see released.  Give me Burrell's mysterious 'Freedom' album, which I've never heard.  Give me some of the infamous rejected albums, like the Wayne and the Train Wreck.  I'll pay to hear them no matter how flawed they are.  Give me some of the overlooked 70's albums that have rarely or never seen CD release, like the New Heritage Keyboard Quartet.  Give me more along the lines of the Donald Byrd Black Byrd-era Montreux set, which was eye-opening. 

Part of the issue here is that we are not in the CD era anymore. I discovered this for sure when we did the Just Coolin' release. I listened to all the alternate takes and picked 4 worthy of inclusion in the set but were nixed because the vinyl release took precedent over the CD release and they wanted a single LP so no bonus tracks were included (they were pretty good, maybe even on par with the master takes on one or two occasions). The Tyrone Washington material was pitched as bonus material to a Natural Essence reissue but again, the LP rules so the bonus material route doesn't exist anymore. I guess they could put them up on streaming sites if they chose to.

The fate of the Wayne Shorter date is a mystery. Wayne listened to tons of live material of his current band to find material to release over the next few years (up to 5 albums worth I've heard) but no mention of this date.

The Jackie McLean session with Norman Conners is nowhere to be found anymore.....

Edited yesterday at 01:42 AM by david weiss

[JSngry]

You can stream most all of it and then decide for yourself. I've decided that that's how I enjoy it most.

Lon seems to be really, seriously enjoying some of it so check out his posts.

But the Glasper thing is kinda like...old news by now.

8 minutes ago, felser said:

I sincerely hadn't noticed, tuned out years ago, as guys like Robert Glasper didn't do it for me.   Who should I be hearing from their recent catalog?

 

[david weiss]

7 minutes ago, felser said:

I sincerely hadn't noticed, tuned out years ago, as guys like Robert Glasper didn't do it for me.   Who should I be hearing from their recent catalog?

I really couldn't tell you about the albums they have made but Joel Ross and Immanuel Wilkins are excellent musicians and certainly have the potential to make compelling music. Artemis is a really good band and if you like Branford Marsalis....

[felser]

21 minutes ago, david weiss said:

Part of the issue here is that we are not in the CD era anymore. I discovered this for sure when we did the Just Coolin' release. I listened to all the alternate takes and picked 4 worthy of inclusion in the set but were nixed because the vinyl release took precedent over the CD release and they wanted a single LP so no bonus tracks were included (they were pretty good, maybe even on par with the master takes on one or two occasions). The Tyrone Washington material was pitched as bonus material to a Natural Essence reissue but again, the LP rules again so the bonus material route doesn't exist anymore. I guess they could put them up on streaming sites if they chose to.

The fate of the Wayne Shorter date is a mystery. Wayne listened to tons of live material of his current band to find material to release over the next few years (up to 5 albums worth I've heard) but no mention of this date.

Thanks David, heartbreaking to hear, as I am still very much in my own CD era (as are many of us here).  I have started breaking down and paying for downloads at times for stuff of special interest to me that likely won't be seeing CD release, but even downloads aren't available for a lot of desired material which is vinyl-only.  The Nathan Davis ORTF release comes immediately to mind in that regard.

22 minutes ago, david weiss said:

I really couldn't tell you about the albums they have made but Joel Ross and Immanuel Wilkins are excellent musicians and certainly have the potential to make compelling music. Artemis is a really good band and if you like Branford Marsalis....

Thanks, I'll give Ross, Wilkins, and Artemis a listen.  I've always been OK with Branford, think he's gotten a bad rap through the decades due to his infamous brother.

27 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Lon seems to be really, seriously enjoying some of it so check out his posts.

Good idea, thanks.

[bertrand]

The Melissa Aldana records are great as well. And my friend, trumpeter Brandon Woody just got signed.

[mjazzg]

11 hours ago, felser said:

Thanks David, heartbreaking to hear, as I am still very much in my own CD era (as are many of us here).  I have started breaking down and paying for downloads at times for stuff of special interest to me that likely won't be seeing CD release, but even downloads aren't available for a lot of desired material which is vinyl-only.  The Nathan Davis ORTF release comes immediately to mind in that regard.

Thanks, I'll give Ross, Wilkins, and Artemis a listen.  

Seconded on Wilkins and Ross, good players, ambitious writers. I sometimes feel they're ploughing a narrow furrow but they're both relatively young still and have bags of potential.

If you approach without thinking you're going to hear Jackie Mac or Bobby H but a very contemporary, as it should be, take on the music then there's lots to like. Hard bop heaven it ain't...

When it comes to Wilkins maybe start with 'The 7th Hand' rather than the more recent 'Blues Blood's which is more vocal heavy, very good notwithstanding that

 

Edited yesterday at 12:37 PM by mjazzg

[Niko]

Wanted to write the same earlier today, start with 7th Hand and not Blues Blood... Actually also for Aldana and Ross, I would recommend their previous BN albums, 12 Stars and Parable of the Poet, but that preference is less strong... Another recent BN album I liked a lot is the most recent Nduduzo Makathini album - but you do need to accept the chanting to appreciate it... Anyway, in terms of new releases by young or middle-aged artists, BN has been doing pretty well in recent years imho

[jazzbo]

13 hours ago, david weiss said:

I liked that for the Van Gelder series, they went back to the original master tapes for the early 1500 (1500-1511) series releases so there was no added reverb like all the subsequent releases of this material after the original issue. The problem was I didn't like Van Gelder's remastering of the material but still listened because it still sounded so superior to the versions with added reverb. I assume some of these releases have been remastered from the original analog tapes for vinyl in the last couple of years.

Absolutely!

I totally enjoy those mono RVG Edition releases. I just wish they would do the 1939 to 1952 or so recordings that have not been remastered this century.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

15 hours ago, david weiss said:

The fate of the Wayne Shorter date is a mystery. Wayne listened to tons of live material of his current band to find material to release over the next few years (up to 5 albums worth I've heard) but no mention of this date.

The Jackie McLean session with Norman Conners is nowhere to be found anymore.....

Didn't Michael Cuscuna say that he gave the masters for that Shorter session back to Wayne? I know he did that with Horace Silver's "Live at Pep's" tapes.

I'm surprised to hear that the Jackie McLean session is gone as I could've sworn I knew someone who had it years ago... maybe I'm thinking of another date?

[jazzbo]

I've collected everything I can of Immanuel Wilkins and Joel Ross, as leaders or sideman on and off Blue Note. To me, they are masterful musicians and writers and represent one course the future of jazz can embody.

[mjazzg]

3 hours ago, Niko said:

Wanted to write the same earlier today, start with 7th Hand and not Blues Blood... Actually also for Aldana and Ross, I would recommend their previous BN albums, 12 Stars and Parable of the Poet, but that preference is less strong... Another recent BN album I liked a lot is the most recent Nduduzo Makathini album - but you do need to accept the chanting to appreciate it... Anyway, in terms of new releases by young or middle-aged artists, BN has been doing pretty well in recent years imho

The Makathini is a good call and I'd hazard a guess that @felserwouldn't find the chanting offputting

18 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

I've collected everything I can of Immanuel Wilkins and Joel Ross, as leaders or sideman on and off Blue Note. To me, they are masterful musicians and writers and represent one course the future of jazz can embody.

It was your championing of them the hooked me in, thank you. I'm hoping Wilkins in particular plays London soon

[bertrand]

8 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Didn't Michael Cuscuna say that he gave the masters for that Shorter session back to Wayne? I know he did that with Horace Silver's "Live at Pep's" tapes.

I'm surprised to hear that the Jackie McLean session is gone as I could've sworn I knew someone who had it years ago... maybe I'm thinking of another date?

I had never heard about Michael giving the tapes back to Wayne. When I was working on the list of compositions for Michelle Mercer's book, I asked about the composers for the 5 compositions on that record. Wayne said he did not remember the session at all, which is of course inconsistent with the previous story that Wayne hated the session and blamed its failure on Duke Pearson. But there is a third story: a guy I knew got a copy of the date and told Wayne. Wayne said: 'is that the one where Miroslav does all that bowing?' This does not seem like 'not remembering' to me. Can't blame that on Pearson. No producer would go up to a sideman in mid-session and tell him he was bowing too much. That would have to have been a conversation between Wayne and Miroslav.

Anyway, I gave composer credit to everyone in the band as if everything had purely been improvised in the studio. Highly unlikely, but no alternative was offered. Cryptically, Duke Pearson's session notes say 'Universe' at the top.

In any case, I have never heard of Wayne asking for the tape back. It is true of Horace and it may be several dates.

I asked Michael when I last saw him in 2014 about the McLean date. He did say the tape was lost.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by bertrand

[Rooster_Ties]

9 minutes ago, bertrand said:

I asked Michael when I last saw him in 2014 about the McLean date. He did say the tape was lost.

Not sure if the results of your 2014 inquiry was the first time I’d heard that — but I do know I’ve heard that date was ‘lost’ for years (and years).

In fact, now that I’m typing this, I’m remembering that I (crazily) pitched an idea for a Tyrone ‘Select’ — with Natural Essence, the so-called ‘Trainwreck’, the unreleased Jackie McLean session(s) w/ Tyrone, and I forget what else I suggested including (maybe what Tyrone recorded with Larry Young — what all would fit on 3cd’s would have been dependent on how long the McLean material was).

And I also think(?) Michael told me the McLean date was lost too. This was via an email exchange, and before I moved to DC (so it would have been in 2010 or before — maybe between 2005-2010).

But I think(?) even that wasn’t the first time I’d heard it was lost.

[bertrand]

Yes, that has been the story for years.

[david weiss]

12 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Didn't Michael Cuscuna say that he gave the masters for that Shorter session back to Wayne? I know he did that with Horace Silver's "Live at Pep's" tapes.

I'm surprised to hear that the Jackie McLean session is gone as I could've sworn I knew someone who had it years ago... maybe I'm thinking of another date?

Cuscuna did not give those tapes back to Wayne. 

The only tapes that I'm aware of that ever were given back to an artist were to Horace Silver.

At this point, I don't think I'm out of line to tell this story. Michael invited Horace to Capitol Studios to listen to all unreleased Horace material in the vaults to see if any of it was suitable for release. Horace chose a number of tunes that became the album "Sterling Silver" that was released in the 1979. Horace did not want any of the other material to ever see the light of day so he made a deal with United Artists and took all tapes of the material he never wanted released home with him where they still sit in the closet of his former home today (well, as of two years ago at least). I've heard the Tentet session and the Live at Pep's material and it is mostly not worthy of release. Michael was correct in saying that Carmel Jones was having a bad day or a bad week and it's mostly unusable. I talked to Horace about the Tentet session years ago and he talked about how the ensemble sections were not executed as well as he would have liked and he said he regretted not taking Alfred's advice to use some of his session guys for the date.

A while back, I was talking to Michael about the Shorter date and I said in the context of Wayne's output up to 1972, perhaps this session was not up to snuff but in the context of the past 20 years of Wayne's current band, perhaps one could look at this date as a precursor to his current quartet. Michael asked me to send him a copy so he could have it handy and check it out and I think he bought it up to Don at some point but that part of it, I can't talk about. 

[Holy Ghost]

On 4/29/2025 at 4:12 PM, Dan Gould said:

Just received the CD and truly a WTF moment when I turned it over.

No writing credits, no track times, courtesy of Don How Was it done before? Who cares!

That's f-ing bullshit.

Yeah, weird oversight. Didn't even notice.  But BN quality is not the cornerstone of the BN CD era, especially when it comes to the Connoisseurs and RVG's. The Kicker (among many others) is the flagship of who the hell is not looking in the quality control dept before it goes to the pressing plant.

On 4/29/2025 at 11:21 AM, JSngry said:

Michael was  Don is.

Now that's funny 😆