david weiss

The B side is the Montgomery Brothers from the Jazz Workshop.

I have not come across this one.... A lot probably doesn't accurately describe the situation.... We know he led gigs at Slugs and the Left Bank at the very least in the '60s....

But which project was recorded in 1983? I don't think he was on a label then...

Why 1983? I looked at the thread. I did not know this was slated for release at some point. Didn't the Monterey series just die at a certain point? Good idea to pair it with the 1994 trio date. It's a shame that never came out.... Hopefully, it will see the light of day eventually....

They have been where they have always been. It's just a matter of a label licensing it and paying all the costs related to releasing it, It's short though so it probably has to be paired with something else... I've heard the Joe Henderson from the Both/And, it's great. Some of it came out on LP as Jazz Patterns (just like some Freddie Hubbard from the Both/And was bootlegged on LP as well). Ironically, it's from the same tour as the Live at the Lighthouse Joe Henderson recordings. Joe was on Milestone at the time which is now Concord. As for the rest, I don't think a consultant to a label is going to get you the clearance you need. Interesting.... Wonder if I chimed in then.... I've heard the whole thing and it's great. There was speculation of pairing this with another show and I don't think that notion is dead yet. Things move slowly....

Plenty of Blakey

This is a no win situation for me. There is Joe Henderson out there but I can't talk about it except to say that sometimes I wonder how anything ever gets done at these bigger labels. There are also clearance issues on some of the options, no one wants to be Palo Altoed (thanks to whoever coined the term here). Here is a clue.... Are you familiar with this? 3 tracks, 35 minutes or so total. This is the only track that has seen the light of day,...

When digital took over the world, tape manufacturers did stop making tape and I remember having to scramble to clean out someone's stock to finish a recording. People are making tape again and there are, of course, some specialty shops that purport to do it better then ever. On a recent project, we had to buy 24 reels of tape because we were mixing down from analog 4 track recordings and we wanted to keep the whole process analog. I believe it was special ordered but there are options now. Everyone who did analog had to reboot and are still catching up. Pressing plants are overwhelmed and are behind on orders trying to catch up and will soon be overwhelmed again with everyone putting in orders for the next record store day madness...

The Fresh Sound stuff has definitely been confirmed as coming from the Both/And and there is a few more tracks from these shows that were not on the Fresh Sound release. I thought the sound on the 3 CD set was good but I always disagreed with Belden about the sound. He favored a more clean, treble heavy sound and I liked a little more warmth and body. It was his baby. This is just a personal opinion but I think the sound on this upcoming set is much better. I believe the vinyl was done by RTI. I don't know numbers of course but my impression was that the 3 CD set did well and was in print for a decent amount of time. I agree that this music might not be at a Miles/Plugged Nickel or Coltrane/Vanguard level of importance but perhaps it is the closet thing we still have documented? It is a great slice of the era. One of the best working bands of that era in the middle of an extended run clicking on all cylinders. It's exciting stuff. I'm not the one that makes decisions about what to release but I think it is worthy of release and is important stuff in it's own right. It's also well recorded and can really bring you right into the room. I like that personally plus I'm happy with more Lee Morgan. It is also remarkably consistent at a high level throughout.

Record store day is the culprit perhaps. You can sell a ton of product at an inflated price as a limited edition box set on record store day. It's a money maker for a business that doesn't have a ton of these kind of opportunities anymore. Some of them are pretty cool boxes though, I guess if they can make their money this way and then sell all the same music in a reasonably priced CD box set or download, then I guess it's OK. Let the vinyl nuts throw their money around if it keeps the CD box sets at a reasonable price point. None of these have been vinyl only releases, correct? There has always been a CD or digital release as well, no? I have a huge vinyl collection but this stuff is beyond me.... Cassettes are a different animal completely.... For new releases, I prefer to get the CD over the LP. It most likely was recorded in a digital format and if not, mixed or mastered in a digital format so I don't need the vinyl for this. Very few new recordings are analog all the way. I know one label specializes in this now but I think it's a subscription series or something. Hey, if it works for enough people, more power to them but unless it's something very special, I'm not biting....

I remember a discussion about this but don't remember the details unfortunately. Apparently I don't pay attention all the time and this was an area that didn't concern my work. I do remember them saying the CD box was going to have a very reasonable price point. Certainly not a Mosaic like price. Somehow $75 is sticking in my head but don't take that to the bank.... I believe this will be Blue Note's decision.

Not really my point but OK. I was saying the artist made the record he wanted to make, chose the tracks he wanted to use, omitted the ones he didn't and put it in the order he wanted to put it in. He also made the whole concert available to download for those who wanted it hear it that way as well but the point is, he made the record he wanted to make first and that was what was made commercially available. That was the album that was sent out for review and to radio stations etc etc. He made the best album he thought he could make from this material and that's the point. You might not agree about how people go about it or might not agree how a label goes about presenting archival material in what they think is the best way possible. It seems like you are even bitching about the big booklets somewhere along the way. The point with the release in question is that the artist was involved and signed off on the material so the label adhered to the artist's wishes. So, different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't buy an album or CD (especially a CD) if it didn't have all the tracks that are available on it. That's absurd to me or as egregious as anything else discussed here. I'm glad one could stream the other tracks so they are somewhere but if I want to listen to an album or CD, I want to listen to the whole thing. I am not aware of the Vara session ever being considered for commercial release. If a record label was involved with recording this, then I would have to assume they wanted the reverb. It wasn't the norm back then to record something and then shop it to labels for release. I don't think sonny was signed to any label in 1967. His last recording was for Impulse in 1966 and he didn't record again until 1972. I haven't read the liner notes either.

Sure, anything is possible.... If a radio station recorded this, I would have more trust in how those folks handled tapes and tape machines then most people around now.... That was their world.... But yes, with the passage of time, anything is possible....

I wasn't the go-between with Sonny unfortunately so I can't say for sure. Sonny did not catch the speed issue but as said often now, it wasn't that off.... He heard the tracks before the edits and afterwards and approved the tracks. I do not know if he was made aware of the specific edits but he definitely heard the before and after. I believe some of the edits were contemplated because of something Sonny said about a certain track or a certain solo.

I don't know Frank Jochemsen really past being cc'ed on a couple of e-mails perhaps but he is the source for this material I believe. No one has ever said that Arnhem was a radio broadcast so it makes me wonder if there was a potential better source out there. I'm told the material was on tape reels but nothing more then that. They were not pulled from a radio archive as far as I know (this of course is the best source for a sound upgrade). I guess I could e-mail the guy and double check. As for the speed, I'm just saying if both tunes were recorded back to back and are on the same tape reel (they were) then there would not be speed issues between the two tunes. That might be a tuning issue with the musicians. There is no piano so things can float a little here and there. You are not talking about a big leap here.... I don't think there is really a debate as to who this music is marketed for. A record label is trying to sell records. They made a huge investment here and need to recoup so they can make more records. The goal is to sell records and hopefully turn the casual listener onto some great music. I don't know how you draw a line here. The hype might be more then we can bear but that's the world we live in unfortunately. Honestly, I'd rather the new or casual listener hear the Arnhem material then the Vara session. I think the philosophy with these labels is that they don't want material available on one format and not on the other. I think this has proven more problematic in the long run and they simply will not do it. This came up recently on another project I was working on for another label and some alternate takes did not see the light of day because they wanted to keep it a single LP and not make it a 2 record set. The LP is again dictating the market. I'm not saying I agree with any of this but this is what is happening. I did not suggest the edits. Like a hitman, I don't chose who to hit, I just do the best job I can with what I'm assigned to do. Elemental is an independent label and can do what they want of course. I would think this is an unwise decision and would piss people off in both camps. If you buy the LP, you are missing tracks so why would you buy the LP? Would one get a download card so they get to listen to the whole session at least. The bigger labels don't want to touch this scenario. Where is the thread about how fucked up this is? I believe Feldman is still involved in some projects with this label. I wonder if it's because it's your instrument. I'm used to saxophone tuning being all over the place so perhaps I just adjusted as always I can definitely hear it in the Graz tapes. Is it also on the Max Roach set? Freddie's voice seems a little high when he tells the audience to kiss his.... It's not only a Resonance thing and I've told you that privately already. Four and Tune Up are not by Miles but they are still registered to Miles by BMI. A record label can't change that, that's a court case or the threat of one at least and the principles are long gone. It's unfortunate but Vinson's family would have to make a claim, prove it and go from there... This is certainly not the only case like this and it can't be undone except by starting the process mentioned above...

I'll listen.... Independents wouldn't have to adhere to any mandate really unless their distributors needed to have things a certain way. Ropeadope (rightfully) thinks outside the box anyways. I did an album for them a few years back. Your Christian Scott examples actually proves my point. They made their edits to make their album the way they wanted it and presumably made it a more streamlined (and to them a better) listening experience. That's the way we all make records whether you know about it or not. In the instant gratification era, it's always good to have more content to keep interest in the artist, hence the download only complete set. It probably had a different matrix or ID number as well. That would be a good idea for this project as well and I can ask though I usually don't have much say in these matters. I will tell you that one speed bump for this is that the artist did not want some of those tracks released either.

Well, the two other recordings on this box are new to everyone, correct? So they "unearthed" something at least and then this would be about grammar semantics? Resonance pays the artists who appear on their recordings. Sometimes the problem might come from the other end. Did you hear it as a half step flat when you first listened to the music or were you already influenced by this thread? I have to admit, I gave this session a more passive listen because no one was choosing which tunes to include or asking me to look for for edit points but with one passive listen, I didn't hear it as flat enough to go to the piano and check. I guess this one is on me as much as anyone. Even though my work for them is more piecemeal, being asked to do specific tasks instead of an overall job where I'm involved with everything sound-wise, I could have caught this but it didn't sound too flat to my naked ear and 30 cents or so is not that flat so I'm going to cling to that....

I'm not sure what you mean by missed all those edits. The label he works for made the edits and he was aware. The LP was mastered by Kevin Grey and the CD was mastered by George Klabin and Fran Gala. George Klabin and Fran Gala have a sound restoration credit on the LP as well. Klabin is the head of Resonance Records. He owned a studio in New York in the '70s called Sound Ideas where the Charles Tolliver Big Band recorded their albums among others. He also did some live recording as a student and some of these have been the source material for some very good Resonance releases.

I saw a Gentle Giant box set for sale here a few days ago and while contemplating whether I wanted to relive my childhood or not to that extent, the thread disappeared and I can't remember who was selling it. Anyone? Thanks

After listening to a lot of Sonny from this period, I called George Cables and asked, how did you follow this, how did you know when to come in and join him because it seemed like every tune started with a solo cadenza where he play at least 5 different tunes before settling on something. He said it was a challenge and also said Sonny would play tunes in different keys a lot as well. I listened to a Left Bank concert with Albert Daily and Louis Hayes (from 1969 I believe) and Albert would jump in here and there and Sonny would go elsewhere until they finally settled in on something. You can hear Sonny saying things here and there as well but most of it is inaudible though I thought I heard a let's go at some point. It was incredible of course but there were certainly moments of uncertainty. Albert was way on top of it and it still wouldn't be quite enough. You can here a lot of that here as well and from the start. On Love Walked In from the Arnhem show, he breaks into Four mid solo and based on other shows from this period, fully expected the band to follow him and they don't catch it at all. He plays Four next instead. They catch some of these things later on in the program though.

"left/right channel shifting specifically track 2" Track 2 of CD 1 Four or something else? We were not cutting tape, all edits were done digitally. My work on these projects is usually pretty specific. I usually vet the material and if they want edits, will explore the possibilities for them. I'm in New York and Resonance is in LA so I am not in the studio for all the production work. Why wouldn't a casual listener buy a live Sonny Rollins set? I assume they would buy the more affordable CD set or eventually download it or something instead of buying the LPs. A certain age group still buys CDs because hey, they have a CD player. I think the LP box is for a specific market. I think it is an industry wide mandate that all formats have to have the same exact material. It first came up for me when working on something for Blue Note. I don't know this for sure but everyone seems to be following this mandate.

It will be on Blue Note I believe. I don't think it will be a super limited set. The LP set might be limited but certainly not the CDs.

8 CD box set I believe....

You know, honestly I'm a vinyl guy but I have little interest in getting these titles on vinyl myself. The sources are usually digital at this point anyways. I will say there is one ridiculous vinyl box set on the horizon that I think will be worth it on LP. There is going to be a 12 LP box set The Complete Lee Morgan Live at the Lighthouse coming out next year. These were mixed from the original 4 track tapes and the whole process was analogue and I think they sound great. There are no edits by the way....

But that's just it, isn't it? Edits and such are made all the time and the only reason one would know about it with live material like this is of a previous bootleg version exists. If one listened to this fresh without the knowledge of edits, would it be a great listening experience? Dare I suggest even better perhaps? What if the artist approved the edits or approved the edited tracks? Clearly there is a bigger picture involved here and I really can't make a judgement about it. Would I prefer unedited music myself? Probably Am I the person these labels are producing music for? Probably not If you made a big expensive box set and needed to recoup your expenses, would you go out on a limb (rightly or wrongly) to try to make it a tighter, more concise and perhaps a more enjoyable listening experience for the average listener? The edits are pretty seamless I think.... Here are some things I do know for sure after working on a few of these things. 1. Vinyl is king again. Vinyl sells more then CDs now. Any decisions about length and such are dictated by vinyl now, 2. The music has to be the same on all formats so no edits on one format and unedited on the other formats.