Niko

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About Niko

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    Funktastic!!
  • Birthday 04/29/1981

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  1. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    Re the Downbeat Archive: the freely accessible part currently stops at the end of 1961... No idea what the status of the remaining issues is... With that in mind 2 hits for Larry Young may we'll be correct
  2. Grant Green interview

    thanks, that's exactly what I thought - both of those clubs have elevated stages while this one apparently doesn't... I agree that this picture could have been taken anywhere... the bit of extra information (found e.g. in the other Green thread that's currently active) is that George Heid, who is from Pittsburgh, claimed that this picture was taken in Pittsburgh....
  3. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    I've also been wondering what a good format for writing up my findings might be, and was similarly drawn to Michael Fitzgerald's Art Blakey chronology or a similar format... my focus has been more on understanding biographies than on covering artists that have many fans... but I know quite a bit by now about drummer Chuck Thompson, alto player Kirtland Bradford (Lunceford's lead alto after Willie Smith) and their family backgrounds etc. and should really wrap up these projects if I have the time (If anybody knows anything about Chuck Thompson between the summer of 1960 and his death in 1982, I'd be very very interested btw). So I'd definitely be interested in something like you describe....
  4. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    Contracts... would be interesting to know how these were designed... and, e.g., whether artists actually had incentives to support sales of their BN albums or whether they played their hit tunes simply because that's what the audience wanted... I've also been wondering whether the ideas of playing Go Down Moses and displaying Feelin the Spirit at that gig were some type of running gag about JC Moses last name...
  5. The Kenny Burrell Quartet ‎– The Tender Gender Grant Green is almost everything but not everything plus: thrift stores have reopened... found this one earlier today, a quartet with Richard Wynands on piano, and had it on repeat ever since
  6. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    well, George Heid seems to claim that the picture with JC Moses was taken at a gig in Pittsburgh... so if the 28 June gig is the Iron City gig and it involves Dixon then we need an additional Pittsburgh gig with Moses & Young for the picture in the same time span, maybe somewhat earlier... could also be that Dixon did a few days and then Moses took over or the other way around... we know that the Watson/Clark/Green band was advertised in Indianapolis on December 4 and February 6. On February 20, the same place advertised the Getz/Green/Moses band... there are different stories which fit this pattern... but most of them would involve Watson/Clark/Green still showing up on December 4 and Getz/Green/Moses existing at some point before February 20 ... and then Young returning from Paris, recording Majesty King Funk with Dixon and Green in May... in November the band is announced as Green/Patton/Dixon...
  7. Grant Green interview

    DMP, do you recognize the club in the photo?
  8. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    like Dan said above, these search functions are pretty good but not perfect... in this case, it took a search for the phrase "happy house"in 1965 Pennsylvania newspapers to find the (or a) missing Green Gig at the Hurricane Bar in mid 1965... this here is from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette of 28 June 1965 no line up given, four weeks after the recording of Majesty King Funk, four months after the Getz/Green/Moses gig, four months before the first documentation of a Green/Patton band, six weeks before those rejected Verve sessions... if the photograph is from here, this would suggest that JC Moses stayed in the touring band and just did not play on the album... why not...and we don't know about the organ player but we do know that Green had troubles finding one earlier that year and that he had just recorded with Larry Young... for the moment, I claim that the both recording of Iron City and the photo belong to this gig, which would make the band Green/Young/Moses
  9. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    Getz memories could very interesting... even just knowing how many months it was... of course, if there was like a constant back and forth, then it's very hard to read anything into lineup changes... but if we believe in some continuity then it seems clear the Young/Green/Moses lineup must be after Getz/Green/Moses of 20 February 1965 (when did LY return from Europe?). So far I have two Green gigs at the Hurricane Bar Grant Green (Guitarist on the Prestige Label, 18 January 1965) Grant Green Organ Trio featuring John Patton, Ben Dixon (15 November 1965) one is too early, the other too late because Patton and Dixon are already announced... which would suggest that there was some additional Green Gig in Pittsburgh, before DIxon replaced JC Moses on drums, but after Larry Young replaced Jane Getz at the keyboard... some time between February and Novermber. If we read the band on King Funk (26 May, Green Young Dixon) as a working band, then the photograph would have been made between 20 February and 26 May 1965. A Green Young Moses version of Iron City would also have been recorded in that time frame... a Green Young Dixon version could be recorded between 26 May and some point before mid November... if we believe in continuity...
  10. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    speaking of cool free resources, this here is a free newspaper archive for Indiana, including the Indianapolis recorder... the same lineup with Watson and Clarke is advertised there once more on February 6 1965... but on February 20 1965, the lineup has changed, JC Moses has joined the band and (somewhat surprisingly) Jane Getz is playing the piano in the Grant Green Trio... here is one more 31 December 1966, almost two years later... what this suggests to me is that there was a period of JC Moses / Green / Young either before ore (more likely given Young's travel to Europe) after the lineup JC Moses / Green / Getz...
  11. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    I can see that story, too... at some point Green/Patton/Dixon were Lou Donaldson's rhythm section, but that was a bit earlier... and then from some point in 1965 onwards until some point in 1968 there was a relatively stable Patton/Green band, initially also with Dixon... but it doesn't look like this was a case of a rhythm section leaving their leader continuing as a trio... there probably was a less stable phase in between... we know less about Green's working bands before late 1965 when a Patton-Green band is first mentioned... the Indianapolis Star of 4 December 1964 advertises a Green Organ Trio with a completely different lineup (Jimmy Watson, org, Buck Jones, dr)
  12. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    I get rid of the yellow highlighter by just clicking cancel in the search window after I've found what I want and the yellow disappears... and then I can use their print/save button (or alternatively the PC's) and get nice clippings without yellow... alternatively, I guess you can use their tool, too, but I never tried to save those clippings... Re the membership, I have noticed for myself that I get a lot of fun out of reading those old newspapers - easily worth those 12$ per month... Of course, there are also nice free tools like familysearch.org, some free newspaperarchives like https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/ or the archive of Downbeat until 1961 (and archive.org in general) https://archive.org/details/pub_down-beat (click on "search text contents" before searching...don't know if the functionality is the same everywhere in the world)
  13. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    been thinking about that photo as well... apparently it was originally posted by George Heid on flickr link, he writes "Grant Green, J.C. Moses, Larry Young, taken 17 June 1966. All three were ascended masters of the music, playing in Pittsburgh in the 1960's. On the right, Larry Young was, without a doubt, the most advanced artist of the Hammond B-3... and with the greatest jazz guitarist of all time, Grant Green. On Drums is J.C. Moses. There aren't words to describe the music that was going on in this club that evening." now that places the picture - and thus a Grant Green live band including Larry Young on organ in Pittsburgh at about the right time... Heid is from Pittsburgh so he should recognize the club - a pity he didn't name it... Elsewhere in his account he ahs other bands from both the Crawford Grill and the Hurricane Bar - and they look quite different... Mid June 1966 is possible but not super plausible given that the Green band was also in Pittsburgh in the first half of July for an extended stay... so I would take that date with a grain of salt... what this picture does seem to prove is that Green played with both Young and Patton in Pittsburgh in 1964-67
  14. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    thanks Roberto on the reminder re where we stand! agree with your summary Bertrand, it's most likely from the second half of 1965, it's almost certainly from a time when Patton was the regular organist in Patton's band - but that doesn't say anything about who might actually show up playing the organ on a given gig re newspapers.com, which version you need totally depends on the concrete newspapers you use in your research. If you do family history and your family always lived in a town whose local paper is in the cheaper package you can be lucky... for "my jazz research" I often need e.g. the SF Examiner which is in the more expensive package... similarly, GG at the Hurricane Bar is in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette which is in the more expensive package. I took the free trial, cancelled near the end and then resubscribed a few weeks later. If you take it for half a year, you pay only 12.50 per month rather than 20... re how long it took and the quality of the search engine: Making that list of GG gigs took me about 10 minutes but I was in a hurry so possibly didn't work super carefully (e.g. for some residences there were multiple ads but I only list one without trying to figure out how long they stayed each time). In my view, the search engine is extremely well made: You can look at individual newspapers but also all papers from cities, counties, states or sets of states - depending on what you need. SImilarly, you can give fairly precise time windows. What is especially nice is that usually with each search result you get a small picture of the page surrounding it which makes it easy to decide which ones need further investigation this is a snapshot of results for Grant Green in Pennsylvania between 1960 and 1980 for instance... and you see immediately which one are what we are looking for... and then you could click on the last one (from 1977) to see the full ad. It's also really easy to make pictures of parts of articles like this (what I don't know is how to make this smaller in the forum editor... this is from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette 3 Jan 1966) as you can see, I am a fan, this has really made my last few months a bit brighter...
  15. Grant Green: "Iron City"

    just had a look at Grant Green in Philadelphia newspapers at newspapers.com... Green playing in the Hurricane Lounge was advertised quite regularly in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette... of course, these were only advertised lineups, not realized ones... no reports of disappointed clients because Green brought Larry Young instead of BJP or anything like that - but that wasn't to be expected... I also doubt that much can be made of the cases were no lineups were reported... Hurricane Bar: Grant Green (Guitarist on the Prestige Label, 18 January 1965) Grant Green Organ Trio featuring John Patton, Ben Dixon (15 November 1965) Grant Green Organ Trio featuring John Patton, Candy Finch (3 January 1966) Grant Green Organ Trio featuring John Patton, Candy Finch (4 July 1966) Grant Green Organ Trio featuring John Patton (held over, all this week, 11 July 1966) Grant Green Organ Quartet (25 Mar 1968) Crawford Grill: Grant Green Organ Trio featuring John Patton (9 big days, 12 Jan 1967) here are some relevant passages from that Msc thesis on Patton hosted here (every paragraph is copied from somewhere else in the document) The trio [Green Patton Dixon] also toured, a few of the places that Patton recalled were Hurricane's and Crawford's Grill in Pittsburgh, "all of the clubs in Rochester," Bonton's in Buffalo, the Cadillac Club and the Front Room in Newark. "We played a whole lot of clubs...whoooh-boy…it's not easy. I'm telling you. Drive, load, book…" Over a year later, a listing from Baltimore's Left Bank Jazz Society's Chronological Concert Listings for a gig at the Crystal Ballroom in Baltimore on July 31, 1966 with Patton, Grant Green, Vick, and drummer Hugh Walker. At this point, Patton was still co-leading his group with Grant Green, usually a trio, though sometimes augmenting to a quartet. Ads from the Village Voice confirm they played regularly at Slug's Saloon in the East Village in 1966 and 1967, using different drummers at different times, including Walker, the late Otis "Candy" Finch, and Clifford Jarvis. Walker, a native of Oklahoma, had entered Patton's circle of musicians as a member of George Braith's band in 1963.[129] He would figure prominently in Patton's activities upon his dissolution of his long musical relationship with Grant Green in 1968. There were several drummers who had preceeded Walker in the Patton-Green group after Ben Dixon quit working with the group regularly in 1965. "I got with Candy Finch when me and Grant started really touring, going up to Buffalo and Rochester and some different clubs on 125th St. We worked all around. We worked locally quite a bit. Candy and Grant were good friends...so we decided to take Candy on the road with us when we were doing tours."[130] The late Otis "Candy" Finch recorded one session with the group in December of 1965, Patton's Let 'Em Roll. Finch recorded with Dizzy Gillespie and Shirley Scott, among others. "This was after Clifford Jarvis. Clifford Jarvis was with me and Grant. Something happened with Clifford, I think he went back to Sun Ra." The Patton-Green group used several drummers, "whoever could make the gig," so to speak, including Grassella Oliphant, who enlisted Green's and Patton's services for his second album as leader The Grass Is Greener (Atlantic1484) in 1966. 1968 also marked Patton's dissolution of his longstanding, on-going, partnership with Grant Green.