wolff

What vinyl are you spinning right now??

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yeah, me too. I was like, no, UA was a totally different label for Blue Note at that time. People shouldn't think that all jazz form a certain time was Blue Note just because. Nothing could be further from the truth, like, Richard Bock was NOT Alfred Lion, etc.

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I don't even think of some things that actually were on BN initially as being 'really BN' - if they were done after they moved to LA or show the imprint of an outside producer like Monk Higgins, or just don't feel right to me.

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Jack Wilson - 3 BN albums, three producers. None of them were Alfred Lion.

post-Liberty, there was an interesting divide between Francis Wolff, Duke Pearson, and "others", like Jack Tracy, Monk Higgins, other people, can't recall all of them. Wolff seemed to do the funky organ records, Pearson the more "modern", and then, the others. It led to a diffusion of the label identity, but a more varied catalog. I mean, I got zero use for Monk Higgins, but, part of the times anyway.

Then they let Dr. Death get his foot in the door and, the Knew Knote Of The Death Knell began ringing, and it was NOT Freedom!

Whatever, it's all history now, and to the victors have gone the spoils.

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NP:

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José Roberto Bertrami - Blue Wave (Milestone, 1983)

 

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John Scofield - Bar Talk (Novus, 1980)

An early Sco' trio date with Steve Swallow & Adam Nussbaum

 

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Who was driving all that Brazilian talent to Milestone during this prriod? 

You're pulling buttloads of these records, only a very small # of which  I haver ever seen, much less heard. Was this an Azymuth thing or what, who was hooking these people up? And to what extent was Orrin Keepnews involved? Producer, executive producer, , coffeeboy?

Or was this a licensing thing only?

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Posted (edited)

47 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Who was driving all that Brazilian talent to Milestone during this prriod? 

You're pulling buttloads of these records, only a very small # of which  I haver ever seen, much less heard. Was this an Azymuth thing or what, who was hooking these people up? And to what extent was Orrin Keepnews involved? Producer, executive producer, , coffeeboy?

Or was this a licensing thing only?

From what I can gather, it was Flora and Airto hooking Brazilian jazz musicians up with Milestone.  Presumably since Flora already had a relationship with the label. Plus, I'm sure that Airto's and Flora's success in the U.S. market inspired many Brazilian jazz musicians to come north to the U.S.  Think about it: Opa (mostly guys from Airto's "Fingers" band; although they were mostly from Uruguay, not Brazil).  Azymuth (and the solo records by Azymuth band members: Jose Roberto Bertrami, Ivan Conti & Alex Malheiros).  Claudio Roditi.  Some really good musicians there.  

I don't think Keepnews had anything to do with these later Brazilian records, post-Flora.  

The LPs by musician I've listed above were not licensing deals -- but Milestone did license some guitar records by Baden Powell and Túlio Mourão (and maybe some others) from indie Brazilian labels.  And the Roberthino Silva record with Wayne was licensed from CBS Brazil.  I suppose that's how Silva got Wayne to play on the one cut.

Viva Brasil, bebê!  :D 

 

By the way, I think there's a book waiting to be written on the interaction between Brazilian music and jazz, beginning with Airto and Flora (circa 1970 or so) and up 'til the present.  The whole bossa thing has been covered.  I'm not talking about that.  Here's why I think a book makes sense:  I believe you could easily make an argument that Airto's and Flora's impact on jazz has been WAY overlooked.  Think about it: Aside from Airto, NO ONE ELSE performed with Miles, Weather Report, AND Return to Forever.  And, while Airto & Flora's impact may have waned a bit in the second half of the 70s, they again began exerting influence as Brazilian/jazz fusion(s) became a thing again in the 1980s.  Along with the stuff above, think about the impact of George Duke's Brazilian Love Affair.  Airto and Flora were right there, and that launched even more Brazilian Jazz fusions.  ... So I think there's an interesting book in there somewhere, even though no one has picked up on it yet.

 

Edited by HutchFan

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No Raul de Souza connections then? Or was this a different circle altogether? Maybe he was older?

I think it would be great that Airto/ Flora kept bringing people in to a smaller label once they themselves had moved up the ladder. Like I said, most of these records were invisible to me at the time, or to the extent I saw them just assumed they were some kind of Fuzaky crossover crap.  But apparently not. Bottom line is that they got made, and you can't unmake a record!

Networking is kinda the untold story of music. Kinda. Everybody sees what's obvious in it, but inevitably it runs deeper than the obvious. So this many records by this many different people...wow!

 

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Posted (edited)

39 minutes ago, JSngry said:

No Raul de Souza connections then? Or was this a different circle altogether? Maybe he was older?

I forgot to mention him!  That was Airto too!  Airto produced Colors for Milestone.  And that record is really, really good, especially the cuts with Arthur Blythe.  I should have included it in my 70s jazz survey.

 

39 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I think it would be great that Airto/ Flora kept bringing people in to a smaller label once they themselves had moved up the ladder. Like I said, most of these records were invisible to me at the time, or to the extent I saw them just assumed they were some kind of Fuzaky crossover crap.  But apparently not. Bottom line is that they got made, and you can't unmake a record!

Networking is kinda the untold story of music. Kinda. Everybody sees what's obvious in it, but inevitably it runs deeper than the obvious. So this many records by this many different people...wow!

Yep.  It's been a gas digging into all this stuff for my 80s Jazz project.  :)   I've been an Airto & Flora fan for a long time -- but their influence was much bigger than I'd realized.

EDIT:
I also forgot to mention that it was Airto who hooked Hermeto Pascoal up with Miles.  Hermeto and Airto had played together in Brazil (in the Sambrasa Trio and Quarteto Novo), so when Hermeto came to the U.S. circa 1970, Airto introduced Hermeto to Miles.  That's how Hermeto got to play on Live Evil.  Another ripple in the pond prompted by Airto.

 

Edited by HutchFan

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3 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

I forgot to mention him!  That was Airto too!  Airto produced Colors for Milestone.  

Ok, so who put de Souza together with Sonny? That's a story I don't know I'm ve heard yet 

And where does George Duke factor into this, if anywhere? Him & Airto go back to Cannonball, and...see, this networking thing, it fascinates me...making the music once people get together is in some way the easier part. Getting in there to even be there, that's the crazy part!

Oh hell, George Duke was on Nucleus, duh!

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1 minute ago, JSngry said:

Ok, so who put de Souza together with Sonny? That's a story I don't know I'm ve heard yet 

And where does George Duke factor into this, if anywhere? Him & Airto go back to Cannonball, and...see, this networking thing, it fascinates me...making the music once people get together is in some way the easier part. Getting in there to even be there, that's the crazy part!

I don't know how de Souza got hooked up with Sonny.  Maybe because they were both on Milestone?  That's just a guess on my part.

The George Duke connection is easier.  Duke played on several of Flora's records, beginning with the first, Butterfly Dreams.  Airto, Flora, and Cannonball were all friends and hung out together.  I've been reading a book about Brazilian music, and there's a really cool picture of Cannonball, Flora, and Airto.  Flora's chatting with Cannon, and Airto's flexing his muscles behind them, mugging for the camera.  

 

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+ Walter Booker, his wife Maia, singing on Super  Nova...and then Duke Pearson, producer of that, using Flora...it just goes and grows.. 

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just blasted 2 hours of Brunswick 78's 1927-1929 via iphone/archive.org to the 1928 Brunswick 5KR....check out the "0-100" dial

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1 minute ago, JSngry said:

+ Walter Booker, his wife Maia, singing on Super  Nova...and then Duke Pearson, producer of that, using Flora...it just goes and grows.. 

Yes sir!  

 

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kIMbOrG.jpg

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Egberto Gismonti & Academia De Danças - Sanfona (ECM, 1981)
LP 1 of 2 - quartet with Mauro Senise (as, ss, fl); Zeca Assumpção (b); Nenê (d, perc)

 

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23 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

There was a time that I bought so far into the Blue Note mythology that it outright pissed me off to see the BN insignia on reissues from labels I knew didn't have any connection at the time of original issue.

:beee:

 

:blush:

Like Stan Kenton's Capitol albums from the 50s. That happened in the CD era. :g

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3 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Like Stan Kenton's Capitol albums from the 50s. That happened in the CD era. :g

Not being a Kentonite I had no idea, but that would have actually pissed me the f*ck off, had I seen it. :g

 

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I do like a fair bit of the Kenton output but I was baffled too when I saw that at a local 2nd hand record clearance sale but (IIRC it's the "Stan Kenton in Hi-Fi" album with bonus tracks) but it's a nice item for the car CD player (though the label does keep amusing me even now, not so much about what the jazz world would have been like if Kenton had actually been a BN artist but about to what marketing lengths and idiocies some label image marketers go ^_^).

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Enrico Rava Quintet - Andanada (Soul Note, 1983)

 

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11 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I do like a fair bit of the Kenton output but I was baffled too when I saw that at a local 2nd hand record clearance sale but (IIRC it's the "Stan Kenton in Hi-Fi" album with bonus tracks) but it's a nice item for the car CD player (though the label does keep amusing me even now, not so much about what the jazz world would have been like if Kenton had actually been a BN artist but about to what marketing lengths and idiocies some label image marketers go ^_^).

What are the bonus tracks?

Thanks

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On 19.4.2021 at 11:27 PM, jazzcorner said:

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Great, the only one with Sam Rivers.

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