John L

Thanks for starting a Tim Berne thread. I have to admit that, except for Broken Shadows, I have somehow lost focus on what he has been doing during the last few decades. But I really did appreciate his earlier work with Science Fiction and Bloodcount. Some of that music is really mesmerizing. What should I listen to today, other than Broken Shadows, to catch up with Tim Berne?

Mine just shipped.

Most music released on 78s, EPS, and LPs that never received a commercial release on CD or download form is not lost. In fact, collectors have digitalized most of that music and circulate it among themselves. There are some 78s that were supposedly released but have never been tracked down yet by collectors. But that is something else. The digital age is not responsible for music being lost. On the contrary. Music that used to be rare are heard by only a select few is now readily multiplied.

Thanks for the warning, Lon. Part of the issue is likely initial expectations. We usually just assume that any Mosaic is going to sound great.

Coming of age in the 70s, we really hated disco. Why? James Brown et al had just delivered what we considered to be the greatest dance music ever: heavy funk. Then somehow the mechanical and repetitive rhythms of disco came and replaced it. That was a terrible sacrifice. It wasn't until more than a decade later when the Bomb Squad, Dr. Dre et al finally got to the business of further developing funk. It was lost decade, in my opinion. Disco still sucks!

I forgot that the Hemphill box was released this year. That and the Hassan solo recordings were of huge historical importance.

Moody piano playing goes back to Chopin.

I got an email from Mosaic today that my order is now "being processed." I guess that it a step up from my order being on hold... I guess. ???

I imagine if Blue Note owned them, they would have put them out long ago. I don't know of any other existing Ornette Coleman recordings made from April, 1961-May, 1965. It is a huge gap in his discography.

Thanks, Chuck. Actually, it looks like more of the Town Hall Concert has been issued in various forms than I thought. I only have the original ESP disc and thought that was it. But my understanding is that Blue Note BST84210 never saw the light of day and Blue Note no longer has copyright to this music. Or am I wrong? Was transferring copyright of the Town Hall Concert to Ornette part of the Golden Circle deal? Lord makes it look like ESP released I Don't Love You and Children's Book on one of their CD issues. I have never seen it and was unaware. Town Hall 1962 : String Quartet : Selwart Clarke, Nathan Goldstein (vln) Julien Barber (viola) Kermit Moore (cello) Live "Town Hall", New York, December 21, 1962 Dedication to poets and writers ESP 1006, 1006-2 [CD] [C6992]Add Ornette Coleman Trio : Ornette Coleman (as) David Izenzon (b) Charles Moffett (d) Live "Town Hall", New York, December 21, 1962 Story teller Blue Note BST84210 (see note) Sadness ESP 1006, 1033 (ed), 1006-2 [CD], Musica Jazz (It)MJP1018 The ark ESP 1006, 1006-2 [CD] Opus D [Taurus] (b solo) ESP 1006-2 [CD] I don't love you - , Blue Note BST84210 (see note) Children's book - , Blue Note BST84210 (see note) [C6993] Add Chris Towns (p) Nappy Allen (g) Barney Richardson (el-b) added Live "Town Hall", New York, December 21, 1962 Blues misused (unissued) [C6994] Add Chris Towns, Nappy Allen, Barney Richardson out Live "Town Hall", New York, December 21, 1962 Architect (unissued) Play it straight Blue Note BST84210 (see note) Doughnut ESP 1006, 1006-2 [CD] Note: Blue Note originally scheduled to issue 2 LPs (BST84210, BST84211) from this concert; because of legal problems these LPs were never released. The content of BST84210 is listed above while BST84211 duplicates ESP 1006 - with the addition of "Opus D [Taurus]". All titles from ESP 1006 also on ESP (Jap)7420, SFX-10727, BT-5001, 15PJ-2019, Fontana (E)SFJL923, Magic Music 30010 [CD], Base (It)1006.

True. I didn't have in mind the additional Golden Circle tracks owned by Blue Note. But mhatta also mentioned the 1962 Town Hall Concert which I believe is in the hands of the Coleman estate along with a lot of other music.

There is apparently a treasure trove of unreleased vintage Ornette Coleman recordings with the estate. Given that Ornette didn't seem to want them released when he was alive, perhaps the estate continues to honor that?

Yes! The ultimate Pres performance for me in that mold is the alternate take of "You're Getting to Be a Habit With Me" from the February, 1958 session, also with Sweets - extraordinary beauty that Lester probably couldn't have even played if he wasn't in such bad shape.

Mosaic seems to have changed their website. Instead of receiving a notification that my order has been placed, I got a message that my order "is being reviewed." What is that all about? Will they decide after review against letting me have one?

Maybe they have in mind December 20, 2022?

It ain't whatcha do, it's the way that you do it.

That is understandable. Most of us here have accustomed our ears to hearing and enjoying lower fidelity recordings that have special musical content. As long as it is audible, It is almost as if we can replay it in our heads in Hi Fi. But it takes getting used to.

Another great Bird disciple on alto from the same period was Sonny Criss. Personally, I think that Criss also belongs in this pantheon. He developed the blues side of Bird in his own unique way just as deeply as Cannonball (IMO).

I have lived and worked in many different countries, including in East and West Africa. I knew quite a number of musicians in Nigeria in particular, and was struck by how many cite Grover Washington as a primary influence and inspiration.

While not standing judgement over Kenny G and appreciating that he may be very good at what he does, I can just say that I plain and simply hate his music. It aggravates the hell out of me. I can't stand it when I hear at malls or the dentist. If it is on in the mall or supermarket, I will tell my wife that we need to get out here now. If it is on at the dentist, I request that they take it off. The first time someone played for me Kenny G, I didn't even know who he was but immediately wanted to vomit. On the other hand, I can really enjoy Dave Sanborn in the right context and I love Grover Washington Jr. even if he did make a lot of records that don't interest me at all. In fact, Grover Washington Jr. is still really loved abroad, particularly in Africa, including among highly accomplished and serious musicians who weren't even born back in the day. That is saying something.

It feels like the end of an era.

I loved that scene in the Wayne's World movie when Garth visited Hell. He was in a big room surrounded by white bread people with empty faces and big smiles listening to Kenny G.

I just heard it for the first time and am inclined to agree. Those three tracks were MUCH better than I expected. Yes, Bird is clearly impaired and misfires many times. But if you can bear to listen through that, there is actually good musical substance to enjoy. It is a different Bird, but that's even part of what makes it musically compelling. Genius is genius.