Rooster_Ties

Where do university-level ensembles (jazz orchestras vs. big bands) fit into this? By which (I suspect) where there are universities with jazz orchestras (if any), if so then I'm sure there's probably a bit of a more distinct distinction -- though I'm not knowledgeable enough to guess precisely what that difference is. With NON-collegiate groups, though, I'm sure there are marketing considerations at play -- as in the demographics of target audiences, and such.

Here's what's in the liners about the other Hasaan recordings that may be coming out (all the text is by Marsella)... ...Without any other recordings of Hasaan I was worried about just re-creating this one album, and then John [Zorn] sent me some unreleased material of Hasaan's that included a rehearsal recorded for the Max Roach session. (This fascinating material will be made available soon in a box set compiled by Alan Sukoenig and Lewis Porter and is highly recommended.) It was through listening to these recordings that I started to really understand what Hasaan was about, especially harmonically. Hasaan extensively used dominant sharp eleven chords (much like Monk) but moves them even more chromatically than Monk... ...Another outcome of listening to the rehearsal recordings were the ways in which he treated his own thematic material---that is to say, that he always seemed to be extrapolating from the written notes. He never played a melody the same way twice. And here's a tiny bit about the drummer (Anwar Marshall)... ...I immediately thought of Anwar Marshall, an incredible young drummer from Philly that I had known from his playing in the Philly group Fresh Cut Orchestra, co-led by Anwar. And his entry in Discogs... https://www.discogs.com/artist/3383094-Anwar-Marshall

I got this in a shipment from The Bastards last night, and it is pretty darn spectacular (says the guy prone to hyperbole at times, I realize). Still, I can't imagine a project like this having turned out much better. All 7 of Hasaan's originals, plus one new tune very much in the same style, by Marsella. The liners say there's some unreleased archival Hasaan that's coming out as some sort of box set, including rehearsal(s?) for the Roach/Hasaan trio date. And (I think) maybe a bit of solo-piano too, that I presume Roach recorded. I'll have to type up the relevant part of the liners about it tonight. Instant pre-order for me. These tunes are so strong, and the original album is such a cohesive statement -- and this new interpretation is very faithful to the spirit of the original, without mirroring it too closely. Drummer is really quite something too -- there's bit about him in the liners too (not lots, but he's also from Philadelphia, as is the entire band). Had no idea Zorn was behind this. Very unconventional writing, but not at all off-putting. My wife loves this (both the original, and what she heard of the new one last night), and the Valdo Williams album too -- and a fair bit of Mal Waldon late 60's/early 70's studio dates (that don't get as long in the tooth as his many live trio recordings), which seem to get at some of the same thing. The world needs more piano-trio recordings like this. Not hundreds more, I realize, but at least a few more.

I've got both those Dave Douglas albums, and I totally agree.

Is kind of curious, especially for the CD issues of previously LP-only (pre-CD) dates. I mean, not that every session would have had alternates or outtakes, but you'd have to think that at least a few of them would.

While not a quartet, I think Albert Mangelsdorff's three piano-less 5tet albums from the mid-60's have quite a bit of Ornette influence, to my ears... Tension (CBS, 1963) -- aka One Tension. Now, Jazz Ramwong (Pacific Jazz, 1964) Folk Mond & Flower Dream (CBS, 1967) Those first two from '63-'64 especially, both in the writing, the concept, and overall sound (though admittedly, the group isn't anywhere near as 'gutbucket' as Ornette). Still, I think the influence is clearly there. FWIW, the 'clean'(er) sound (tibre) of most of Tension & Now Jazz Ramwong is especially appealing. Not that I have any issues whatsoever with Ornette's sound -- but it's also lovely to hear some of Ornette's ideas filtered through a slightly more orderly outfit, such as Mangelsdorff's. If for no other reason, than I can play either one of those first two Manglesdorff albums when my wife's around, and it won't ruffle her feathers like Ornette would. Tight as a drum, and they do go a little out here and there - a really a nice mix. Wish there were more groups with Manglesdorff's 60's concept -- or maybe I just wish there were one or two more actual Manglesdorff albums (maybe from '65 & '66), before he went further out (which I also like, and have a bunch of from the later 60's and early 70's too. By that point, I think the Ornette influences are less obvious and certainly less overt.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/03/663895387/roy-hargrove-grammy-winning-jazz-trumpeter-dies-at-49?fbclid=IwAR1-vND_iFWOZjU8hl36KhxUPgrYXOKehT7qqzS90OKZZ4fTcYGX2tz4GW0

Nothing confirmed that I've seen yet. Just saw this parallel thread moments ago, which was the first I'd heard... http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/roy-hargrove-rip.785136/

I have a copy of this on the way from The Bastards, in an order placed 2 days ago. Then NEXT, we all need to lobby this Brian Marsella chap to remake the Valdo Williams Savoy album. (I'm not kidding either.)

I tried Google with "Organissimo.org" + every combination of bird or parker, diz or dizzy, and "town hall" (in quotes) both with and without uptown. 6-8 different search combinations, hit the "show similar results" button at the last page of each search, and went back through 10-20 pages of each different search key combo, and got nothin'.

Thank you!!!!

There was a really long, and wonderful thread here eons ago, all about the discovery of the Diz & Bird Town Hall material, and some folks here who got to preview it pre-release (well before it was issued, iirc). My Googling cannot seem to call it up -- can anyone else find it? Had to have been 30 pages long, at least. LOTS of great commentary about the material, and historical import of it. How the sides were discovered (at least some semi-revelation of that info, though some cloaked in secrecy probably still to this day), etc... Can anyone else find it for me? Good times!!

I never really "made the switch" so much as by the time my tastes moved so strongly towards jazz (circa 1989-1994) -- by that point it became *infinitely* easier to find the music I was into on CD, than it would have been to track down on LP. And especially when I first was getting into jazz in college, because I was limited to occasional weekend trips to St. Louis (or Chicago) - both 3-4 hours away. The college town I was in was a population of 30,000, and they only sporadically had even one CD or record store (off and on), maybe 2-3 years out of the total of 7 years I lived in that town -- and almost no jazz (no surprise). Davenport and Peoria were a little better (45 minutes away each), but not lots. So I went on big spending binges at Tower in Chicago, and Euclid or Vintage Vinyl (for CD's) in St. Louis. And even Best Buy(!) back then (early 90's) had a surprisingly decent selection of stuff - even a surprising number of Japanese imports even (for big names like Miles, mostly, but some others too). I can still see the LONG shelf of CD's I had in college and shortly after (maybe 8 feel long?) -- as it turned into two 8-foot rows of CD's, then 3, then 4 -- all in the space of about a year or two.

I've never owned a set, but have seen them for sale any number of times over the years. I remember seeing a nifty documentary about Robert Crumb back in Kansas City, probably 20 years ago. Interesting guy (putting it mildly). Wikipedia seems to indicate he's still among us! - age 75. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Crumb

I got to college in the fall of 1987 (as I was born in 1969), and the first CD I ever bought (that fall) was Jimi Hendrix - Live at Winterland (1968). Didn't even own a player for 2-3 more years (though I always had roommates with them). I don't think I owned more than 50 CD's total by 1989 And I didn't really start getting into Jazz until the spring of 1989 (when I took a jazz history course for fun) - and only really in earnest over my Junior Year ('89-90). Primarily getting into Miles' Columbia 50's thru mid-to-late 60's material -- and 1960's era Blue Note material (and especially anything/everything with and by Joe Henderson). I think I finally got my own player in about 1989 or 90. And I pretty much bought every Miles Davis (all eras) and 60's-era Blue Note CD I could find. I *just* got into Miles early enough that a lot of his back catalog wasn't out on CD yet in the US -- so I remember my first ever CD's of Nefertiti and Sorcerer were both Japanese Sony (which I found used up in Chicago, at Jazz Record Mart iirc). I grew up in St. Louis, but went to school a couple hundred miles north, a couple hours outside of Chicago - which I tried to get to a couple times a year when I could (hello Rose Records! - and later Tower). Oddly enough, I really have no memory of what my first jazz CD was (or even first 10 were), but I'm sure 90% of my first 50 jazz CD's were purchased used. But I do distinctly remember a few things, like getting about 8-10 Blue Note titles on CD ($10 each) that were in a box by the cash register at Jazz Record Mart, especially Herbie Hancock's The Prisoner, which was my very first time hearing it (probably only even vaguely aware of it before). But I very distinctly remember thinking: WOW, I didn't even know this was on CD -- and how in the heck is this a cut-out?!!?!!! I'm sure I'd bought quite a few CD cutouts by that point, but the very idea of something that was THAT interesting to me: late 60's Herbie on Blue Note, with Joe Henderson no less -- that something like The Prisoner had come out, and was already going or had gone out of print (circa 1991-92), really seemed crazy. How could something THAT important on BLUE NOTE go out of print in 4-5 years?? Here I am trying to get everything I can from that one little era (1960's jazz through and especially the late 60's, when things started getting weird) -- and stuff that had only just come out on CD in 1987, was already out of print by 1991-92? Holy shit!! That means I gotta buy EVERYTHING the second I see it, cuz if it came out 4 years ago, it might be out of print next year. Little did I know that there would be further CD re-issues of titles (I was young). But there has always been an urgency I've felt when finding certain sorts of titles, that I couldn't necessarily sleep on anything of the sort of styles that I really like best. I came to CD buying as my interests were expanding wildly in my teens and early 20's, to the point where those first 10 years of CD's (which I count as being about 1985-1995) -- almost NONE of my CD buying was in replacement of pervious LP copies I'd had before. Everything was new to me back then, and as jazz took root as my primary interest, I mostly bought everything on CD as I got into my first real job in 1994, and finally had some income -- and then I went crazy I bought way too much stuff over the next 5-10 years after that (half of it used CD's, though).

Me either, but there's like half-a-dozen things about his playing that puts him right up there for me. I mean, I really like the Bobby dates I do have on CD and LP (not a whole lot, actually - 2 LP's, and 2-3 CD's). But I've never felt the calling to go collect even half his recorded output. But as I said, there are so many things about his playing that I do really like -- it's funny I've never gotten as enthusiastic about him as even I might have expected. His technique is always stunning, but what he has to say with it seems to vary (live) in terms of how inspired he his. Not sure I've said it before in this thread (though I know I have elsewhere), but when I lived back in Kansas City, I used to hear Bobby 3-5 times every year (half the time, him sitting in with folks). And he ALWAYS played at an extremely high level. BUT... ...BUT, sometimes you could really tell he was just phoning it in in terms of "ideas". I could never find any fault with how he played, but WHAT he played sometimes (more than sometimes) made it seem like he was on autopilot. Phenomenal technique, though (and I say that not thinking of him primarily as being a 'technician' either). I always wanted to hire Bobby for the jazz series I produced back in Kansas City (that I called "Jazz & Beyond") -- specifically backed by a really fiery bass/duo rhythm section (no piano, no guitar, just Bobby + bass and drums). Something to really inspire him to pull out all (and more) of the stops. God knows he could do it. I just never heard him play like that more than 3-4 times in the entire 5-6 years he and I both were in Kansas City (over 25 times hearing him in all sorts of contexts). SIDENOTE: I'm going to hear him this Saturday up in Baltimore, with Louis Hayes, and a bunch of first-call(?) local players [all of whom I expect should inspire Bobby quite a bit]. Looking forward to it, and hoping Bobby delivers. Fingers crossed.

Unrelated question, when did Steve Coleman get to be 62!

What about the mid-60's Danish(?) LP that purports to be a bunch of real red-hot Jazz musicians from the USA. And they're even pictured on the cover. When it's actually all European players, but the pic is literally four young-ish 20-something black guys they found on the street who all looked the part. And they handed them instruments, and had them pose like musicians for the cover... 'Cept the the trombone player CLEARLY has no earthly idea how to hold the damn thing. I can see the cover in my head (yellow and orange lettering?), but can't remember enough of the title to even google it. I'm sure half-a-dozen people here know exactly the one I'm talking about. "Something, something, something jazz from the US" - or words to that effect. Hillarious cover.

And Tina Brooks!!

Very well said -- something I was trying to get at (in what I posted above about him), but didn't know how to say quite as eloquently as you just did.

Thanks! Tardy always struck me as quite a muscular player, who wasn't afraid to push a bit more/further than many -- though without pushing too far. His playing didn't quite 'sing' for me a much as, say, Billy Harper's -- but generally it's in a somewhat similar region. Almost all my regular 'favorite' players are super-informed by Joe Henderson, but Tardy always seemed a bit more Trane-influenced (to my ears, anyway) -- Atlantic-era Trane specifically. Super nice, quiet guy - seemed very focused inward. I've spoken with him briefly at about 3 gigs, and he seems super thankful to be pursuing (and able to pursue) his craft.

I was really impressed with Greg Tardy (age 52 now) the 4(?) times I saw him back 7-15 years ago (before I moved to DC) -- and I think I've seen him twice in more supporting roles (here in DC), but in groups of more like 8-9 players total. Meaning he didn't get anywhere near the amount of solo time as when he was in Andrew Hill's band, or Helen Sung's, or another band I'm probably forgetting (or maybe it was Helen Sung who was in his band? - or maybe both, on separate occasions). I see (now) he has a TON of leader-dates on Steeplechase over the last 10 years or so, which I really ought to explore.

Off the top of my head, my two favorite tenor players who are still active are Billy Harper (age 75, but playing as well as ever, last I heard him maybe 2 years ago). And Gary Thomas (age 57), who was somewhat active in the Baltimore/Washington DC area the last 15 years or so (and I've heard him live about 6 times total, but always as a sideman on other people's dates). And he doesn't record anywhere near enough, not even as a sideman -- maybe 2-3 times in the last 15 years (unfortunately). Far as younger guys go, I have to confess that I haven't kept up nearly as much the last 10 years, as I did the 20 years prior -- and I'll be curious to see what other names are mentioned here (good idea for a thread topic). Ravi Coltrane is one I've enjoyed, but haven't heard enough of. He seems (or at least seemed) to come somewhat out of the sound of Joe Henderson (more than his father), which certainly accounts for my interest.

Here's track #5...