Rooster_Ties

Best "thread tangent" ever!!! B)

Ok, another band who I've liked almost everything I've heard on the radio by (them), is... The Foo Fighters But I'd never dropped a dime to get any of their CD's. But if they had a "greatest hits" CD come out, I'd probably buy it that same week. Beck's another one. Cool stuff I've heard on the radio, and I even caught one of his wild-n-crazy shows about 2 years ago. Hell, it was one of the best 'rock' shows I'd ever been to, and was just plain 'fun' for days. But I've borrowed several Beck discs from a good friend of mine, and I can't ever get moved enough by them to go out and buy my own copies.

Zork!!!! Ah, the memories!!!!!!! ( By the way, this has got to be the absolute quickest a thread has made a total u-turn, ever!!! )

Yeah, I damn near included "Well You Needn't" in my original list. Didn't have the heart to, cuz it's Monk --- and good Monk is always good. B) But bad Monk, is... well..., often as bad as C-Jam Blues.

My god, Lode Runner!!!! I haven't thought about that in YEARS!!!!!! Ahhhh, them were the days!!!

OK, "Free For All" was wondering what tunes I thought were overplayed, so here are some. I'm flipping though "The Real Book" just now --- and yeah, I'm not a jazz musician, but I've got a Real Book, which I've had for years. (No idea where I got it. but I only paid $5 for it, so no harm done.) Anyway, here are some tunes that I think I've heard enough substandard versions of, to last me well more than a lifetime. (Presented in alphabetical order, though the first four are by far the worst (in terms of being overplayed), at least in my book.) All Of Me As Time Goes By Autumn Leaves How High The Moon My Funny Valentine Satin Doll (though it's my mother's favorite Ellington tune) Take the "A" Train and C-Jam Blues (not in the Real Book that I could see, but I get bored with this the second I hear it) I might have also almost included a Monk and/or Parker tune, though I can't fault any specific tunes in the book, so I guess I just think Monk and Bird are overplayed, at least by some --- though I'll always welcome any Monk tune from any group that can do something interesting with it. ========== And that leads me into a side-rant. (Yeah, this is going to be one of those kinds of threads. ) One of the other things I hate is when less-than-inspired musicians play a tune, and then just as soon as the head is over, when the go into the solos --- they go into standard blues changes, or "Rhythm" changes, such that absolutely NONE of the character of the original tune is carried over into the rest of the performance. Zero, zilch, nada!!! I mean, I can't count the number of times where (if I hadn't heard the head), that I'd have any chance in hell of guessing the tune, based on the solos or the comping behind the solos. I mean, why do a tune in the first place, if you're gonna do utterly generic stuff for 90% of the performance?? An example totally UNLIKE this, is when I heard "Free For All" recently play a stunning version of "Beatrice" by Sam Rivers. The chord sequence of the tune (under the main statement of the melody), formed the basis for the comping behind all the solos each person in the group took. Even when there were chord substitutions (which there were), one could still follow where the group was in the form, pretty much at any given point during the solos. I'm not saying everything has to be hummable, at all times. In fact, I love it when a group drops the form for a bit - or mutates out of it slowly. What I do hate, however, is generic changes (quote-unquote) "that will work for almost any tune". Lazy, lazy, lazy - if you ask me - and I do nothing but get bored real quick. ===== So, what other "standards" (tunes) are you sick of hearing and/or playing (and perhaps have been sick of for years), and what other performance practices are you tired of hearing among the "less-than-inspired" segment of your local jazz scene??

Except, by having it the way it is now - that encourages people to take advantage of "buy it now" options right then and now!! - cuz if you wait and somebody even so much as make a silly $1 opening bid - then you won't get it. The way the system is now encourages quick decision-making when the "buy it now" option is available.

Who'd waste $ on that stuff? OK, I do own a handful of Beastie Boys CD's (3 or 4). And years ago I had a couple Public Enemy discs, though I must have passed them along to someone else at some point - cuz I haven't seen them in years (though I kinda wish I still had them now). But, I certainly wasn't meaning to suggest that these other genres weren't worthy of purchase. Just that over the last 5 years my interests have gone so strongly in the direction of jazz and 20th Century classical music, that I've just not done much impulse purchasing outside of jazz, classical, and the pop/rock music that I (and my wife) already know we like and/or love. But no, I'm certainly not bashing rap as a music-form, though like everything - there's both good and bad. By the title and subtitle of this thread, and meant to discuss pop/rap/rock music that we all like enough to be kinda interested in, but never enough to really go out and explore more fully - as in buying many CD's.

Man, I saw a video by them/him once, set in a highschool basketball gym I think. Very cool tune - made me want to hear more. I think the tune was called "Rock Star", or at least I remember that phrase being in the chorus of the tune, rhymed with "cop car" I think. That guy Pharrell Williams (seems to be the lead singer and possibly the main creative guy behind "N.E.R.D") is real interesting, from what little I've seen/heard. Also saw him in a Snoop video recently, and some other rap video with P. Daddy and half-a-dozen other tougher looking rap dudes. You know, I like never buy any rap CD's, but there are particular tracks that grab my attention fairly strong, when I cross paths with them while flippin' up and down the wasteland that is cable-TV in this country.

My god, Dmitry - do get the "complete 65-68" box set someday. The bonus tracks are very well worth it (at least to me), and there are a few gems that aren't on any of the single-CD releases as bonus tracks, which you'll never get otherwise (except on the box set). Or at the very least, the next time I send you a disc or something in the mail, remind me to include a burn of all the tracks on the box set, that aren't on any of the single CD's. Limbo [alternate take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 5:31 Masqualero [alternate take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 7:30 Madness [Rehearsal] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 1:54 Hand Jive [First Alternate Take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 6:45 Hand Jive [second Alternate Take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 8:00 Madness [alternate take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 6:40 Pinocchio [alternate take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 5:05 Thisness performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 5:49 (completely unreleased tune) Circle in the Round performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 33:32 (mega-long version) Teo's Bag [alternate take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 5:56 I Have a Dream [Rehearsal] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 6:43 (the Herbie tune, later on "The Prisoner") Speak Like a Child [Rehearsal] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 2:25 (the Herbie tune) Country Son [alternate take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 14:38 Black Comedy [alternate take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 6:23 Tout de Suite [alternate take] performed by Miles Davies Quintet - 14:36 Some of these are being released as bonus tracks on the single-CD issues, but surely not all of them.

I'll throw some names out, of some artists who I find curiously interesting, enough that I'll almost always stop when I happen to see a video of theirs (while I'm flipping channels), or those rare times I'm in the car long enough to use the seek-n-scan button on the car radio -- and when there's nothin' on NPR . Macy Gray - Love that voice, and the groove is pretty nice at times too. Not a genre I ever listen to much, but there's something about her that I just can't figure out, but I keep wanting to try to figure out. Busta Rhymes - Strangest choice in samples. Am I right, isn't one tune entirely built on a snippet of strings from the soundtrack to "Psycho"??. Very "atonal" in some sense, that the music beds he raps over aren't at all easy to figure out, with totally non-obvious hooks. Also, amazingly interesting videos, if you want to talk pure visuals. Missy Elliott - Gotta hand it to any female pop star who can get to the top without using traditional sex-appeal to do it. Cool-as-hell videos too. Pink - Got that certain something, musically -- and of course a look that's both "really hot", "street", and "a little fuggly" - all at the same time. Not at all "trailor park" fuggly, but more "street punk" cute/fuggly. Public Enemy (a name from days gone by) - Love Chuck D's voice, and their use of samples is far more interesting than anything Puff Diddy ever could even dream of. I'm sure I'll come up with more names later.

Where's Dmitry???

Yeah, what the hell were you thinking, Sangry?? I mean, of all the pictures you could have linked to, you just HAD to go and pick THAT one, didn'tcha??? I hope you've learned your lesson!!

I suspect we'd all smell him less if he'd kept his shirt on.

I would love to hear some otherwise not commercially released material. I was specifically thinking about that, both in terms of the "blindfold" section, as well as the "bonus-tracks" idea I described a couple posts above this one. So, yet, I would vote for people to have the option of including stuff that's never been released before commercially.

OK, here's an idea. Keep the number of "blindfold" selections to 10, but then people should feel free to pad the rest of the CD with whatever goodies they feel like, identified or not. I'm sure we all have lots of goofball stuff that might be fun to pass around. Or decidedly non-goofball stuff, like various "grey-market" recordings by great jazz artists, that many of us might not have otherwise heard. Or other cool stuff, like one movement of a work from your favorite obscure 20th Century classical composer. Or wild and weird spoken-word stuff. The possibilities are endless. My point is this - as long as people are sending around CDR's halfway around the world, let's fill 'em to the brim!!

Just an idea. As long as we're going to the trouble of burning CDR's, and sending them all over the place... ...wouldn't it make some sense to include as much music as will fit on one CDR?? - meaning like 79 minutes, or 71 minutes, or a heck of a lot of music - whatever the total number of selections turns out to be?? I could see some people having 10 or 12 or perhaps even 15 selections - whatever will fill up a CD. In other words, if you're going to go to the trouble of having 45 or 50 or 55 minutes of music, why not just pick tunes until one runs out of space. Again, just an idea...

By the way, I got through the whole disc, and my review is pretty much the same. Out of a possible five, I'd probably give it 4 stars, or maybe only 3.5 (more likely) -- I'll hafta listen to it some more to know which. Still, a pretty decent disc. Another "by the way", I never have been able to get my ears around MMW's accoustic work, or more specifically Medeski's piano work. I can appreciate it on some levels, but it doesn't really speak to me. I'm talking about their more recent all-acoustic tour, and disc ("Tonic" I think it was called). I do, however, really like Medeski's piano work on their very first album, way back when. More "pianistic", and less "groovy Cecil Taylor"-esque, in my estimation. Don't get me wrong, I have a bunch of respect for Medeski and the group, but they're speaking to me a little less over time.

Thanks!!!!

Flying Is Major Pain for Musicians Screenings, Limits on Bags Pose Some Risks For Instruments; That Cello Needs a Ticket By RAYMUND FLANDEZ Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Chris Speed has traveled the world with his saxophone, but on a recent trip from New York to London, Virgin Atlantic Airways told the jazz musician that his instrument couldn't be carried aboard because it weighed more than 13 pounds. Tense protests yielded a compromise -- the tenor sax could fly in the cabin, but the large black carrying case had to ride in the cargo hold. Mr. Speed swaddled his baby in blankets and pillows, tied his belt around it and stashed it in an overhead bin. "It was such a hassle," Mr. Speed recalls, angrily. "And so ridiculous." Tighter baggage and security rules have left travelers world-wide whining, but it's been a particular sad song for musicians who travel with the tools of their work. Despite repeated protests, lobbying and even a specific federal rule change, musicians are still struggling to find ways to travel safely and calmly with delicate instruments, often worth tens of thousands of dollars. One big problem: Inconsistency between airlines and even security checkpoints over what can go on board, and what is banned. Alaska Air Group Inc.'s Alaska Airlines will take an instrument whose length, depth and height add up to 50 linear inches or less; the cutoff at AMR Corp.'s American Airlines is 45 linear inches. Some airport-security screeners will let large instruments through; some won't. Some musicians are asked to take them out and play a note or two to prove that nothing is hidden in the body of the instrument. Musicians who play large instruments often have to buy extra seats for them, even though the Transportation Security Administration in December allowed musicians an exemption so they can carry one extra item beyond the standard small bag and a "personal item." But even buying a seat doesn't always work. Although the TSA's edict governed how instruments should be processed by screeners, it didn't necessarily guarantee that the instruments could get on board the plane. Each airline has its own set of size measurements, weight limits, charges on extra carry-ons and other restrictions. Big instruments, for instance, such as a bass viola or cello, either have to be checked as cargo or have a seat of their own. Some airlines offer a discount for those tickets; some do not. American says bass fiddles are accepted only on certain aircraft. Alaska says instruments can exceed the size dimensions required for carry-on provided that it can fit the overhead bins, and that varies from aircraft to aircraft. "Our members lose jobs every week because some airline won't take their instruments to their jobs," says Hal Ponder, Washington lobbyist for the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada, a trade union. The musician's union, with 100,000 members, has received and heard more than 100 complaints on this issue this year, Mr. Ponder said. The group wants a standardized policy on musical instruments as carry-on for all airlines to follow. Shipping instruments by overnight mail means losing rehearsal time and, more frighteningly, puts the instrument at risk of theft or damage, musicians say. Instruments are not only expensive, they can be irreplaceable, literally and emotionally. Checking instruments as airline baggage is also fraught with danger, of course. Amy Brodo of Oakland, Calif., allowed her baroque cello, worth $25,000, to fly as checked baggage on United Airlines early last year. Her plane arrived safely, but her instrument took a detour, forcing her to cancel a concert for a day until the cello arrived, intact but with several puncture holes and cracks in its carrying case. When Air Canada told Larry Ochs, a saxophonist from Berkeley, Calif., that his two instrument cases would have to be checked, he stopped in a bathroom on the way to U.S. customs and ripped off the baggage tags. He nervously stuck the tags in his pocket and got on board, toting the instruments. Now, every time he flies he carries the letter that the TSA sent to the musicians' union about the rule change. Even then, the security process can leave musicians strung out. The musicians' union is actually working with TSA officials on guidelines for safely X-raying and inspecting delicate instruments because of past problems. "Our concern is that if we give them a trumpet, we don't want them opening up the cases and examining the trumpet or the $300,000 violin or the $700,000 cello," said Thomas F. Lee, AFM president. "We're extremely concerned that they'll break it." Mr. Speed's flight back to New York went smoothly; this time, his case and his instrument were reunited and stowed safely overhead without him having to pay for the extra weight. A Virgin Atlantic spokeswoman said that because of limited space in the cabin and for safety reasons, passengers on international flights who have more than one carry-on or baggage that exceeds the weight and size limits should check it to cargo. The spokeswoman believes Mr. Speed was given an exemption. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just in Case Most airlines allow instruments on board if they are under the size requirement (normally 45 linear inches) of regular carry-ons. Musicians get one extra free carry-on for their instrument, but there are usually a lot of stipulations. A sampling of policies: American • If instrument is too large, an additional seat may be purchased. In this case, an instrument must travel in a window, bulkhead seat. • Bass fiddles are not accepted in the coach cabin and are only accepted on certain aircraft types. • Instruments may be transported as checked baggage, but airline does not accept liability "for damages and has limited liability for loss. Northwest • Passengers must sign a limited liability release for checked instruments. • If instrument weighs up to 50 lbs, it can go on board for free; but if it's between 50 lbs. to 70 lbs., the cost is $25. Beyond that, up to 100 lbs., the charge is $50. • The airline is not liable for any instrument in a domestic flight. • On an international flight, airline is liable for a maximum of $640. • Bass violas and cellos will only be accepted as cabin seat baggage, meaning passengers have to purchase a seat for these types of instruments. Delta • For domestic flights, the airline is liable for checked baggage up to $2,500. • For international flights, it's liable for $9.07 per pound for up to $640 per bag. • An instrument can be carried on board as long as it fits in the overhead bin or under the seat. • Instruments such as violins will be accepted as your one free carry-on baggage. However, the instrument must be within the limitations of Delta's baggage allowance. United • If instrument is too large for a carry-on, passenger can purchase another seat for the instrument at regular price. But instrument must not protrude above the seat back or weigh more than 165 lbs. • Bonus: Musicians can get credit miles for the traveling instrument. • Musicians are advised to add 30 minutes to recommended check-in time. • Instruments can be checked if liability waiver is signed.

Depends on whether you see that as being a "problem" or not. I guess it could be, in so much as it's Miles' name on the thing, and hell - Mikkelborg doesn't even get a single credit of any sort!!! (Or at least not on the original CD issue - perhaps that's changed with the newer one.) But as a musical concept, independent of how it's marketed and labeled - it's certainly not a "problem" for me, for Miles to have been a soloist in a context that is relatively far-removed from anything he'd done in such a long time. Jim's nailed it, by mentioning the "Music for Brass" recordings from the late 50's. That's what "Aura" is all about. There is some also similarity to the Miles/Evans colaborations, perhaps - in instrumentation at least, but really the "Music for Brass" recordings are the model upon which Aura is based, though very loosely.

Missed this the first time. I'll look it over, and try to post something here soon. I don't have quite everything in the Hill catalog, but I've got quite a bit more than I've not got. ( Trouble is that the Hill Mosaic removes much of my notion of what each particular album is like (as a single unit), so much of it all runs together for me, especially for all those dates after "Point of Departure". ) Just glancing at it very quickly now, though, I'd have to say that they've got it mostly pretty much right, or at least there aren't any big glaring errors in judgement, from my perspective. OK, looking at just his Blue Note output in the 60's, I don't think I'd probably change any star-rating by any more than plus or minus one full star, or (more likey) plus or minus half-a-star. And non of my changes would change the relative order of the importance of Hill's BN albums. I'll look more closely at his entire catalog (and the star-ratings in the AMG), and report back to this thread what changes I might suggest.

I love what MMW does (I've seen 'em live 4 or 5 times, including the all-acoustic tour), and they get into grooves that are deep as the ocean. But then they'll stay there in those same grooves longer than I think really supports the music. (I think this is more true of their live performances, than on record.) I haven't heard them live in a while (a couple years, at least), but I used to think that as much as I like and often love what MMW does, I just don't think they're as interesting as soloists, as they are as a collective band. It's like they milk grooves a bit past when they've really hit their critical mass, and the content of their soloing doesn't (for me, at least) sustain the music as far and and long as they want to play it. Don't get me wrong, I think MMW is one of the best at what they do. And they can cut grooves that are cavernously deep (one of their greatest strengths). And for that, I'll always love 'em. It's just that they don't have that ability to tell stories in their solos at the same caliber as their ability to groove as a band. (At least not for me.) I know, others will think differently. And I'm not saying "this is my opinion, and I'm right!!", but that is my honest reaction to the music, for what it's worth. PS: You should hear how my wife thinks they’re nothin’ but repetition. For the life of her, she can’t see at all what I hear in MMW, when I complain about the repetitive and/or simplistic nature of some of the bands she likes. I try to explain it’s the overall groove that’s so killer, but my explanation always seems to fall on deaf ears.

Well said, Jim. And actually, you've reminded me how much I would have liked to have heard Miles play (just play) in all kinds of other situations, not of his own design. Much like hearing tapes of Ornette playing with The Dead, it's often REALLY nice to hear someone who is such a strong voice in "contexts" of their own creation... ...to hear them play in someone else's world, especially if it's quite different from their own. For instance, I would have loved to have heard Joe Henderson playing in Frank Zappa's band in 1988. And I think we all would have loved to have heard Bird react to Ornette, and/or especially to have played with Ornette. Sure, some things just wouldn't work, like the Miles of 1963 playing with Sun Ra. Or Miles and Andrew Hill (any year). But still, it is nice, often, to hear this bandleaders just being hired-guns as soloists, especially in really different contexts that are somehow not completely removed from their own idiom.

Me too, Noj. I'd love to see some of your work.