Harold_Z

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, CHRIS AND MANY MANY MORE!

Yeah...this is a GOOOD album. One of my favorites for both Grant Green AND Larry Young. TALKIN' BOUT is right there with it too. I view them as companion pieces - for years I had a cassette with both lps taped on it.

Thanks Lon. The search is ON.

My wife and I saw INTOLERABLE CRUELTY this afternoon - thoroughly enjoyed it. Some pretty big laughs here and pretty often too. Anybody know who did the GLORY OF LOVE that played at the end? I couldn't hang to see the credits.

>>"why did people say that you couldn't dance to bebop?<< I'm not quite old enough to say that this is the way I remember it, but I think this a possible and probable scenario. Maybe somebody just a little older can put their two cents in and verify or dispute my point. When Bebop came along the chief competitor (espescially in the black community) was what we now call R&B, but at the time was called ROCK AND ROLL. The R&B, with the drummer hitting 2 & 4 on the snare all the way through, spelled out the groove for the dancers. Obviously, to the musically astute, the groove was there with Bop also, but for the less astute, the BIG BEAT, as it was then called, was easier to dance and more acsesssible - the backbeat spelled it all out. To us Jazzers, Swing progressed to Bebop and Diz, Bird, Fats Navarro, etc. For Black America Swing morphed to Wynonie Harris, Roy Brown, etc - for White America it morphed to Pattie Page, Perry Como, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, etc. Again - the foregoing is as far as the general public was concerned. True Jazzers then, as now, were a minority. Maybe not as much of a minority as now, but a minority none the less.

IMHO , the transition from "small band swing" to "bebop" was a lot smoother than the view that most books give us. I think BEBOP was primarily a marketing term. Yes - Bird and Diz were innovators of the highest order, but the music was firmly rooted in what went before. Listening to many things from the late 30s through to the mid 40s, it's difficult for me to really find a definitive line separating the two. I'm speaking of things like Coleman Hawkins small group stuff, the Red Norvo date with Bird and Diz, some of the things on the HRS label, etc.

Bad news. What a great player Carl Fontana was ! RIP.

I read a bunch of Phillip K Dick's work about 10 or so years ago and really enjoyed them. The title's I remember are SOLAR LOTTERY, DO ANDROIDS DREAM, although I must have read another two at least. They were all good.

Wild Bill Davis and Bill Doggett were using Hammonds (I'm going by sound and photos I've seen). Both of these guys played a pre- Jimmy style that (imho) didn't have the speed or bebop lines that Jimmy bought to the table, although both guys were fine musicians with plenty of chops - just different chops. I think Wild Bill primarily worked in a trio setting with guitar and drums and Bill Doggett had a quartet with Tenor added. Doggett could get plenty greasy and his stuff was marketed by King records as R&B or Rock and Roll more so than Jazz.

Prior to the B3 I know there was a B2 (seriously) and from that I would assume there was a B1. This sounds like we're talking about vitamins. I'v also seen C3 Hammonds which are B3 like but with panels on the sides instead of the leg posts. Possibly they had self contained speakers - I'm not sure. I think one reason the B series was popular with jazz guys is that the setup and registrations allowed the use of the left hand for playing basslines. The M series Hammonds were smaller and did not lend themselves to the use of the left hand for playing bass lines. Some of the pre- Jimmy players were Fats Waller, Count Basie, Wild Bill Davis, Bill Doggett. Recently wkcr even played some 1936 broadcasts of Jelly Roll Morton playing organ - and he sounded great. Anybody know if those are commercially available?

I love Stride Piano. When those guys hit a groove they LOCKED in and it rocked like crazy. All the guys mentioned above were great. I like the Fats piano solos that were available on a 2 cd set from RCA (or on an earlier 2 lp set). There was a terrific lp by Hank Duncan called HOT PIANO on Grand Ball records that is very obscure. It's great! Hank is ROCK SOLID. If you can find the Jazztone Tony Parenti lp with Hank on it called Happy Jazz (aka Jazz, That's All) Hank sounds great on this also. The Willie The Lion Commodore stuff or the "Memoirs" on RCA. Or anything else you can find. There's a good STRIDIN' JOE TURNER cd on Jazzology. Also - Don't forget Dick Wellstood. He had Stride down. He's close to the top of the list for my money. The two disc set that is on Arbors is a terrific example - or the Chiarasuro release available. Both releases are recorded live at a gig. Same goes for Don Ewell. He shouldn't be overlooked. He could strid with the best of them. (edit added) He could STRIDE too! Also - Monk's take on stride shouldn't be overlooked (nothing Monk did should be overlooked). I see his solo work as HIS kind of stride.

COLD SWEAT and LICKIN' STICK are two that come immediately to mind - I know there are lots more.

Yes. There's some really good things happening here and as far as the HOKUM - that's well in the New Orleans and entertainment tradition and convention of the times. Prima was undoubtedly influenced by Pops, but I don't see that as any kind of negative or as anything unusual in trumpet players from New Orleans who were roughly Pops' contemporaries or came a little after him. I think we can safely say there are a lot of trumpeters and entertainers who are NO equal to Louis Armstrong. As a matter of fact - that's an understatement. Prima was one of the major lounge acts - the Jazz was secondary to the entertainment, but it was present, and the jazz went from 50s R&B to Dixieland and everything in between. The band, led by Sam Butera, who was an outstanding musician, swung like mad. The rythym section was VERY hapenning. The act was a MAJOR influence on lounge acts and bar bands in my area of the country, and I suspect it was pretty big elsewhere. I urge anyone interested in this band to check out a video entitled THE WILDEST. I think you will be highly entertained and it will also put the Vegas act into perspective....and you'll get to see some 30s footage of PeeWee Russell...and PeeWee is doing SHTICK with Prima! ...and PeeWee considered his time with Prima as a musical high in his career. There was a good thread at the now defunct board that went into a lot of this. That's just my thoughts at 6:00 AM - I hope this discussion develops more. I'm not going to have a lot of computer time for the next week or so, but I'm looking forward to checking in on it when I can.

All in all, I think this subject STINKS.

I'm speaking as a guy who has been playing Fender Precision Basses since the early 60s. I think that perhaps the Rosewood (being more porous) eventually absorbed grease and various other FUNK from the player as time went on. The necks gradually became smoother, greasier, and ...well....groovier to play. Hence - you had ONE of the LEGIT reasons why vintage Fenders from say 62 thru 65 were so highly valued. Most of the Fenders before that were Maple necks and THOSE necks felt good and sounded good. They sounded good because they were one piece - no glued on fingerboard. SOLID sound. Maybe some Fender historian has the statistics, but I don't think there were many Maple necks made between the early 60s and the early or mid 70s. Guys like Jamerson, Rainey, Jemmott mostly used basses with rosewood necks.

Well...I'm a "lost cause". I think anybody who isn't is probably ashamed to admit it. Lon........Velikovsky...Worlds In Collision...I READ THAT. WAYYYY BACK! I need to check that out again..it's from a time when I really don't remember ANYTHING I read!

All of those are really good. I haven't heard the TROMBONE CHOLLY (thanks, Barak) title, but it's on my WANT list. YOU'RE GETTING TO BE A HABIT never made it to cd as far as I know. I bought it used about a year ago. It's on the Bell label. It's Ruby with Hank Jones, Don Lamond, Don Elliot, etc. A rhythm section including vibes and Ruby. I love it. I'd like to find a cleaner copy, but mine is listenable. BRAFF was reissued on lp and cd in the late 80s on the Sony PORTRAIT series. Ruby with Roy Eldridge, Coleman Hawkins, etc. Again...great. EASY NOW was on RCA. About half of it was on a cd called MY LUCKY DAY - the rest is unreissued (the session with Vic.) Tony, if the pms are working you'll get a message. If not - contact me through Lon.

Well....Tony, don't think this thread is for naught. It sparked me to dig out my cassette of the Vanguard two lp set and has been my constant companion in the car for about a week and a half. I think I'm on my fourth run thru. Its wonderful. It's also sparked some peripheral listening to things like EASY NOW (a 50s Braff lp that I scored about a month ago) and a revisiting of YOU'RE GETTING TO BE A HABIT WITH ME - another Braff 50s lp. Both are so good that I am at a loss for words. THEY ARE WONDERFUL. ...AND it has me on the QUEST for a Vic cd called VIC DICKENSON PLAYS BESSIE SMITH or something close to that. I should have scored it when I saw it, but didn't have the bread......

I dug every interview I ever heard or read with Artie Shaw. I remember one on wkcr where he was bugged with Charlie Barnet for playing CARAVAN wrong - chromatic all the way down, instead of coming into the last note from below. He was REALLY drug with what he considered a LAME approach. I haven't heard enough Charlie Barnet to really have an informed opinion, but I will always think of that criticism. On the flip - Max Kaminsky brings Artie up in his autobiography and basically says Artie wasn't too cool to him in a tough moment. Maxie was another guy who could impress you with his intelligence.

I used to do this a lot - not as much lately because it is a little more difficult to do with cdrs. Actually, I think I'll just cdr some of my tapes - the hell with the generation loss.

I dig JATP. It's blowing by some of the greatest names in the pantheon of Jazz...What's there not to dig?

My sentiments exactly. Wonderful music !

Also, for some sideman stuff, check out BENNY GOODMAN ON THE AIR 1937-38. This is a 2 disc set on Columbia. It may be OOP but it shouldn't be hard to find at all. I still see it from time to time. Harry is KILLIN' on this stuff and the so is the band. Harry is heavily featured. IMHO This is as good as the Carnegie Hall (which is to say VERY VERY GOOD) and should recieve equal attention. Harry James playing is hot and he had complete technical command of his horn.

Harry's first Chronogical Classic 1937-1939 contains some great sides. I assume they're Harry's earliest as a leader and the band is pretty much Basie cats. Buck Clayton, Herschel Evans, etc. Subsequent sessions included in this disc are a mix of Basie, Goodman. and even Harry Carney from Duke's band. Albert Ammons and Pete Johnson show. It's allstar stuff and a great debut as a leader.

The Hamp cd is a gas. Hamp could "swing you into bad health" as the saying goes. I've been digging the Verve Quartet sides too. Killer stuff. For more on Combelle, check out the "Coleman Hawkins All Star Jam Band" date, a 1937 date available on a number of cds. including Classics. Bean, Combelle, Benny Carter and another French Saxophonist whose name escapes me at the moment. Django's on board too, and among other things, they do a classic "Out Of Nowhere". GREAT SESSION !