JSngry

Uh .. if it did originally come out on Saturn, then by definition it is not an IC original. The number of people who actually saw it doesn't change that. Now the question is- did it actually come out on Saturn at all?

How about just that he was a master singer, period?

Up to a point, yes. After that point, it does become subjective. But people who want to think that there is no such point at all are The Enemy. You gotta be careful about that though, because also a factor is what are YOU looking for? Still, at some point, objective truth is a very real thing. I love to use Pharaoh Sanders' work with Trane as an example - those who insist that all Pharaoh is doing is just randomly squealing and shit like that are TOTALLY wrong. He's playing off the natural overtones of his instrument and he is in fact pretty damn organized about it. And DEFINITELY in control of it So that kind of talk gets zero cred from me. Not liking it is one thing, but that's totally NOT the same as cluelessly IDENTIFYING it. And anybody who thinks that that difference is not real and meaningful... Alternate Facts live there. I was taught this lesson by John Purcell. I told him that I loved the Special Edition records he was on, but hated the ECM sound of them. He gave me a look and asked me why. It's a full sound, no highs, just a dullness I told him Well, he pulled me over to a turntable and put one on, then started fiddling with the EQ to very insistently and convincingly make the point that there was PLENTY high end on that record, listen to the stick on the ride cymbal. But what Eicher was doing was pulling back on the mids to emphasize both the top and the bottom. "You gotta be careful. Don'tsay wrong shit. The people who know are the people who can fuck you up when the time comes ." That's what he told me, and that's the lesson I learned. Don't say wrong shit. No matter how many people will believe you, the people who know can fuck you up when the time comes. There's enough people gonna fuck you up as is. No sense in not having truth/reality on your side where and when you can.

A lot of any music is objective, though, and can be evaluated thusly. An opinion that defiantly gets the objective qualities wrong carries no weight at all, imo.

Tone, rhythm, energy, a lot of things. But not too many people are honest about what they can or cannot hear, or what they are actually listening to. The whole "there are no wrong answers" thing is bullshit. Of course there are. So an opinion is only as good as what it's based on. So a person who makes a statement about something they're not able to actually hear.. that type of opinion has zero credibility Be careful with nouns and adjectives, that's all I'm saying.

LP only?

I wonder what some people really hear, much less are able to listen to.

Chronologically yes. But that's as far as it goes, God willing.

Ted Mack Major Bowles S. E. Cupp

John Waters Boog Powell Hoagy Carmichael

I'm still looking for that date of his where Gil Evans wrote the charts.

Then I can wait, or else die first. Either way, none for me, thanks.

Boomer vanity never dies.

For how much is a $30 LP going to sell for in a used record store 20 years from now?

Quite! I would also like to throw in on A Man Ain't Supposed To Cry, which is as good or better a Sinatra record as all but 2-3 actual Sinatra records, and Williams' amazing performance on Cannonball's Big Man.

Not really...

That one was a pop hit.

That's when you get promoted to Jazz Martyr.

Yep.

It was exhilarating at first.

He plays on both, but is in no way a "significant" contributor. He's just there reinforcing the melodies, mostly.

I don't know, maybe it is? All Chet Baker records "sound alike" to me after a while.