Big Beat Steve

This is the one I used for my Hank d'Amico CD purchase. Nothing in sight after 3 weeks - so far, so good, there still ought to be some margin, but I find their persistent silence to my (politely worded) inquires a bit irritating. They were MUCH faster in accepting my payment. But in the meantime I'll take your word for it.

Hope the Hank d'Amico CD from that reissue batch that I bought in the very first days of March from that Japanese eBay seller mildly recommended somewhere here will eventually show up ... Not that I would really expect to receive a reply to my mail written to inquire about the shipping status (I guess their item descriptions are pre-texted somewhere so do not necessairly reflect on their ad hoc knowledge of fluent English communication) but it's a bit discomforting to experience what other buyers leaving negative ratings have had to say about this non-communication - yet I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope I haven't been burnt ...

I fully see your point, Larry, and actually, I like William Powell and his "Thin Men" a LOT (just like I enjoy Marlon Brando or James Dean for entirely different reasons). BTW, to stay within a broadly contemporary framework of acting, maybe you rather might like to juxtapose William Powell and John Garfield? But the results would be the same. Different purposes, different targets, different means. Like I said, in the end it likely is my fault if I fail to appreciate the singing (more operetta-like - yes, you are right) on that particular clip above as an introduction to how the verse of ATTYA is supposed to sound. I'd just have to wade through a lot of stilted and stylized vocalisms there that just happen to get in my way ... But that's only me and highly subjective and I definitely would not want to start a debate on "hip" vs "square" singing (or, to use different terms), between "executing" and "interpreting" a song. That's a different (and very probably pointless) matter altogether because tastes just do differ and the "hip vs square" criteria really are beside the point and not applicable ... I really was just trying to explain why I had wondered about other recordings of the verse of that song that might be more ... well ... "accessible" from my angle. Thanks for your patience ...

OK, Greg, thanks - so I did misunderstand Jim's initial comment. I have worked my way halfway through the McGlinn video (and did grasp what I understood to be the SUNG verse) because I was sort of fascinated by what I read in the other posts about his "period-correct" approach to those Broadway tunes. But I must admit - I have huge problems digesting operatic aria-like singing in such settings where I'd expect something a bit looser anyway, given the source material and the purpose it seemed to have served. I realize it's me who am missing out on it (and maybe I am missing the point entirely, being unduly influenced by movie versions of Broadway musicals) but that's just the way it is .... But hence my question about recordings of the verse in a JAZZ setting.

Getting back to "All The Things You Are", the original subject of this topic - I assume the Youtube clip of the Shaw/Forrest recording is of the RCA studio recording, not of some soundie? (The clip does not display here - GEMA/Youtube mechanical copyright hassle again ... ). I've just listened to that RCA recording and while no doubt the singing is great I am surprised at what is included from the original score of this song and what isn't. Did I totally miss something or is the verse of that song (mentioned in another post above) NOT included there either or does the Youtube clip show another version after all? Having first come across this tune in the Diz/Bird version of 1945, I've long been intrigued by the Clifford Brown/Gigi Gryce 1953 Paris recording of that song, particularly the introduction by Jimmy Gourley on guitar which (according to Alun Morgan's liner notes to the 70s UK Vogue reissue of those recordings) "is the seldom played verse which, as composer-musicologist Alec Wilder has pointed out, seems to have little to do with the chorus; (it) sounds as if it had been written at another time or even originally intended for another song." Has this verse ever been recorded in a JAZZ setting at a pace more like the original song (the Brown/Gryce version of course is much more uptempo, and very smartly done IMO)?

I can understand that you are weary, but better be WARY, isn't it? As for the description of the sound, sounds like some Boris Rose live recording tape to me. Is it a proven fact that FAR better-sounding copies of that recording are in existence? In that case there still should be a market ... particularly in view of the artists involved and how so many collectors drool about minuscule and highly subjective sound improvements of the umpteenth remastering of this or that BN recording reissue, for example ...

No, honestly I did not. I do remember touting the Rusty Bryant CD reissue on Lonehill here because it DOES fill a gap (one of those areas neglected by everybody else). But I cannot recall this particular thread. Might be worth rereading it in detail, though. But before wading through all 13 pages, does it mention the Med Flory FS CD at all?

JSP? As for the basic problem of such rarities that round out the larger picture of an artist's opus in a reissue, this brings to mind Ghost's query for the Fresh Sound "Go West Young Med" CD in another thread. The first four and final two tracks on that "Go West" CD (that complete the leader's recordings by Med Flory frmt he 50s) were originaly issued on two EmArcy 45s (78s?) and a World Pacific 45. Were these tracks ever reissued (and remastered) elsewhere before? Bruyninckx says No but of course is probably not up to date on all the reissues ever released out there. I haven't found any reissue trace anywhere. At any rate (referring to JSngry's question above), I'd define these six tracks as NOT being "easy" to get elsewhere. Maybe a bit OT, this, but it might help to highlight a case of where the PD labels do render a service and fill a gap (in the sense of what King Ubu hinted at above).

You seem to ignore the fact that in MANY cases there is NO ONE out there who would make the music available as "better product". Because they simply don't give a hoot. Just look at the Fresh Sound catalog and tell me how much of the music on 50s jazz "indie" labels or "niche artists" that they have done would be produced by Mosaic or any of the majors. A case in point: The recent debate about Bethlehem reissues from Japan. I am really glad that I picked up most of those reisues wthat came out on vinyl in the 80s on Fresh Sound or on the UK Affinity label so for the most part of that catalog, I'm simply done (and you know what, those reissues don't sound that crappy at all). Where were others around that time who'd even have cared about Behtlehem (outside Japan, anyway)?? IMO FS are FAR ahead of "churners-out" of P.D. box sets like Proper in their diversity of the music they make available. Not that I am overly content with their packaging strategies of "2 LPs on 1 CD", for example, but that's a different story. BTW, I am not talking about cases like "Uptown" that do see their releases ripped off by P.D. labels. I would only buy Uptown releases in such cases (not least of all because of the packaging and what I get for my money but also as a matter of principle) and I do see the problem of P.D. piggyback riders in such cases. But these are minority cases IMO. In many cases the P.D. labels go where the majors or "legit" lables have never BOTHERED to tread. And - AGAIN - Japanese reissues that may have been around for 4 weeks somewhere around 2002 and then went OOP like the wind are NO argument WHATSOEVER that a "legit" release "IS available". Such sporadic avilability in a (in many cases) difficult-to-access marketplace and lack of international promotion of the product essentially means UNavailability to the greater community of fans of the music as such. KEEP it in print, market it ACTIVELY worldwide in a decent manner, then we can reconsider this aspect of the debate. But if not - then "use it or lose it" in the P.D. sector. (Surprising, BTW, that nobody so far has seen fit to anwser my query about artist royalty payments by the Japanese reissuers ) That said, David Ayers has nailed it with his reference to the cost of distribution of "tangible products". Look there to see where the money goes when it comes to the price of a CD. And finally, I don't do streaming and certainly won't for a long time to come. I am only referring to the CD market here. Streaming might be a different subject but not one I personally am affected by in my buying patterns so this is for someone else to discuss or justify.

As long as you have the bucks to shell them out in one go during those 3 to 4 weeks that those oh so coveted Japanese reissues remain in print ...

Have I seen you write and compile liner notes and discog details like they do at Blue Moon, for example, yet? As for generic artwork, I assume you are also thinking of the majors with their often utterly lame generic, nondescript artworks too? If you are so upset about "generic artwork", you must have a bad, bad, BAAAAD time buying records of reissues throughout the 70s, right? Didn't it strike you back then that somebody out there (among the MAJORS) was ripping you off badly with music that had been "written off" production cost-wise long ago? As MP3/WAV, I'm not playing and you're right, i'd tell you what you'd expect to hear. But the way things verys often appear here many of those who frown about the P.D. labels often grudgingly have to admit that many of them aren't THAT much worse soundwise compared to other releases/reissues that might be considered more "legit". And - yeah, any definite word about royalties from Japan? What's the deal, then? .

Do I get what I pay for (in the sense of REAL and GOOD value for money) if I shell out for a Japanese reissue at FULL price if this Jap. reissue contains only the equivalent of ONE measly 10-inch record? I get what I am willing to pay to get my hands on a specific item I want by all means and so I for once am willing to be shortchanged. But would I moan and complain if the same contents (plus additional and fitting material to make up for maybe at least 60 or 70 minutes playing time) hit the market from a label like Fresh Sound, Blue Moon, Lonehill, Proper (who are exactly in the same P.D. boat, BTW) or even Definitive? Nah! Particularly since they are likely to keep the stuff in print far longer than those Asians do. BTW, who knows for sure that Japanese reissuers always pay all those ARTIST royalties in full and in manner that the artists and/or their estates get them straight on? Speaking of which, this royalty business (when paid through the "official" channels) is a big-time sham in my book anyway as far as total niche music releases or reissues are concerned. Those who pay to the "mechanical royalty" processing companies (like GEMA in the case of Germany) are not likely one bit to get back the money they OUGHT to get IMO. Case in point: A friend of mine who as a part-time project of his occasionally issues 45s (EPs) in one-time runs of 500 copies (not more) with rockabilly bands from that "niche" underground club circuit told me he had to pay something like 241 euros for this run of 500 in GEMA royalty payments for one particular item by a band from the UK (with all the songs on the EP written by the band, BTW). And guess what? The other day the leader of that band told him in passing that he "recently" (i.e some 12 months after the release of that particular 45) received the royalty statement from GEMA: A whopping 8 GBP!! Now where DID the royalties go that were paid for this particular 45? Greasing the palms of the pop music bigwigs? Now who's kidding whom? And I know of other cases with similar record release projects. So don't give me that royalty "argument", particularly if Public Domain music is concerned.

By and large, the problem wouldn't be one if the original reissues (particularly the Japanese ones, in this case Stateside) didn't make a habit of making international sales such a hassle and going OOP before you can say "pow". Use (i.e. keep marketing) it or lose it ... That's what it boils down to in the Public Domain sector. Quite simply ...

Took the plunge last week and bought the Hank d'Amico CD from that Japanese eb.. seller some of you mentioned - ftfym65. Ordering and shipping confirmation came immediately but I guess I'll have to keep my fingers crossed and see when it actually shows up on my doorstep and in the meantime I will probably send a mail to ask if and when it has really been shipped (hoping I get an intelligible reply, too ). .

Well, though I have the Mopaque LP (which has the above March 12 AND March 5, 1949 live recordings, BTW), I do need that CD anyway! So .... thanks for the info (and for the track listing of the Howard MCGhee CD too - enough new material there too, though I have the Philo and Melodisc studio dates - too bad with these overlaps but I guess one of these days the barrel of new and never-before released discoveries from that era just is bound to be exhaused ... )

You mean they knew or sensed they wouldn't? (Liittle surprise in the case of Bix, but Tesch? Wasn't his death accidental?)

That's not the fault of Fresh Sound but the "fault" of your importer. Over here it sells for even a wee bit below what it would cost to have ONE single CD shipped directly from Fresh Sound (not very cost-effective anyway due to the postal rates from Spain and not so much the CD price).

The stuff that was out before on MOPAQUE CJR-300? The cover of that LP, at any rate, looks very Boris Rose-ish. So which is now out next? This Chubby Jackson CD or the Howard McGhee CD discussed elsewhere in this forum?

Wow, a subject matter you could carry on about forever. No doubt this has been explored and written about by blues and "roots music" researchers before but where to find the sources and wuotations in a hurry? Trixie Smith recorded "My Man Rocks Me ("With One Steady Roll") on September, 1922 for Black Swan. A pretty allusion to where the term originally came from. And no doubt there are other cases in blues lyrics from roughly that period that "rock and roll" too.

You understand this one better, then?

Agreed with Scott. This is not a discussion of people like Marlene Dietrich, Howard Hughes and their ilk who shied the flashlights like no others. At best (or worst) pictures like this are a mirror to our own selves who have aged in the past 30 years too. And if those who do not like facing that fact when looking in their bathroom mirror each morning gain a little bit of comfort from the fact that, hey, the bigwigs and "celebs" age just as well - then who is to blame them for it? Particularly if people like you and me (and the honestly ageing celebs) get more and more wrinkles but still fare better than those who try to evade the inevitable via botox or surgeons and end up with botched, caricaturesque faces that REALLY make them the laughingstocks of their surroundings (if you'd be honest). And besides, who hasn't snickered at the faces of the "undead" such as Keith Richards and STILL admire them for the energy they still can muster? BTW, hasn't this subject has been discussed with jazz artists too?

Yes, that's been the key problem to a lot of the entire "Japanese reissue" debate for a very, very long time, unfortunately. It simply is discouraging ... And with shipping, etc., prices still add up anyway. So the situation IS a bit difficult for buyers from this neck of the woods. As for those Y1,000 CDs, if you get one 10-inch LP's worth of music that tends to be not quite that "budget"-priced compared to other items with significantly longer playing times. (I've thought long and hard about items like the Hank d'Amico reissue myself ...)

RIP. Another one gone. His stage presence up until a very advanced age with the JOdimars/COmets lineup that toured Euope often during the past 20+ years was quite a sight to see. BTW, Benny Goodman fans wil have noted him as "Francis Beecher" in the lineup of quite a few late 40s sessions by the big and small bands.

Yes indeed, and somehow I have the impression that pic. no. 8 showing Lionel Hampton was taken a wee bit later than 1954.

Anybody have any idea if the musicians listed are the better-known names of the collective personnel on this CD or the actual line-up throughout (3 horns + 3 rhythm would make sense but such a stable lineup for studio AND live dates during the entire period??) The lineup listed earlier only matches one entry in the McGhee discography in Bruyninckx - an AFRS show from the Hi-De-Ho Club in L.A. in March, 1947 (3 tracks previously issued on Jazz Showcase 5005 - "California Boppin"). But how much of a full CD would these 3 tracks account for? Anyway, none of the "known" (and relatively easily accessible) McGhee studio recordings on Philo, Modern Music, Melodisc and Dial from 1945-47 match the above lineup (Roy Porter and Teddy Edwards crop up most frequently) so this leaves you wondering what else there might be in "new" studio recordings or what the actual studio lineup is or if the studio recordings included are either oft-reissued tracks or alternates of those known items. I'll keep my fingers crossed there actually ARE new discoveries. AFAIK so far similar Uptown releases from the bebop era always have included a lot or even a majority of music never heard before, so ...