Big Beat Steve

Looking for both the CD set and the book. Several years ago a book on the pre-war and post-war history of jazz in Belgium was released under the above title, and a multi-CD set followed not long afterwards. Durium (Hans Koert) tipped me off about this a couple of years ago and I tried to get hold of these through all the channels I could find online (including bookshops in Belgium that stated on their site that they had the CD set available), but to no avail. The Book and CDs seemed to have gone OOP in the meantime. I had meant to ask Hans about this again for some time but never got around to it and now it obviously is too late. Any info from anybody on where an affordable copy can be located would be much appreciated.

Many grooving, soulful returns, MG!

A side remark ... (yeah, late, I know, and a minor point, but if it was a case of setting the stage ... ) That remark by Condon has often been quoted but the situation when it was made according to most reports was nothing like this but rather a case of Condon not having been named among most notable jazzmen by Panassié and/or not having been invited to participate in one of Panassiés U.S. recording sessions. But above all, Panassié never was BELGIAN nor active there to any great degree. Don't know what Raksin was thinking of but if he went in that deep he ought to have been able to tell Panassié and Robert Goffin (or Carlos de Radzitzky) apart.

Understandable that the BN diehards are touchy about someone possibly messing with their holy grail, but what would be so "fake-ish" about this particular record? The few BN 45s that I've got look totally different - like this: And so do those you find in online listings. Wouldn't "counterfeit" imply something that imitates the original much more closely? Somebody may have been playing around with that name, but using such an uninspired label design that you had zillions of in the 50s/60s? This is not some kind of not even superficial "similarity" likely to fool too many fans of the "known" BN, IMHO. Anyway, there have been lots of cases where several small 45rpm labels had the same name so who knows what's behind all this for real?.

Which ain't worse than many of those US-born Boris Rose (??) 70s LP reissues of swing-era jazz (you know, "In Disco order ..." etc.) . They fill a gap in the market by including long-unreissued CDs in a package that (even if you have 4 easily available ones out that total of 6, for example) makes it worthwhile buying the set at that low price for the remaining two. if only to throw them in the car CD player. And they are in better sound quality.

Oohhhh .... This IS a shock. Hans was very knowledgeable and his blog was great. My deepest sympathies ...

Yeah, considering how much flak this exact reissue series got from the keepers of the grail around here when it was first discussed (in connection with Gigi Gryce, for example)

"We don't flat our fifths, we drink'em!"

Is it a fake? Isn't it a duplication of names from a time when exclusivity and copyright were not really enforced? After all, how many labels with identical names were there that existed simultaneuosly at various parts of the country? Particularly small labels with such utterly nondescript label artwork as this? Quite a few.

Well, compared to other styles of jazz it sometimes can be, can't it?

The novelty of false starts wears thin extremely fast IMO. It may occasionally be interesting for a "key" recording in some artist's recording career to see how that recording evolved, but overall ... ho hum. And like Kevin said, having to wade through one or more alternates though every track of a CD (or several) just is too much. Particularly if the alternates aren't all that different ALL the time. I can understand, though, that the compilers of this box had no choice. Hans't there been the oft-reported story, for example, about Bird's "Cool Blues" being so different from one take to another that the issuers at the time issued those takes as "Cool Blues", "Hot Blues" and "Blowtop Blues"? And once you get started on that track (and quite a few alternates by Bird merit inclusion) you cannot stop halfway because other collectors might whine "why this but not that?"

Glad you said that. Maybe it's because I come from a slightly different angle but to me they seem like a very 80s CIRCLE records LP thing. Apart from the occasional others like that 10-minute version of some tune on Sonny Boy Williamson's "Bummer Road" LP (Chess) marked "not suitable for airplay" on the cover back in those prude 70s days because Sonny Boy can be heard in the studio chatter to burst out "M****fu**er" and "B**ch" etc.

I'll pass. Except for many of the Garners, I have at least the master takes (and part of the alternates) of about all of the tunes included here (and all in all am quite satisfied with what Spotlite did with the source material for THEIR reissues) and I dont think I'll need that many alternates of that many tunes. But tastes differ, I know ...

So I had figured - cheap budget label with poor playing time and (not necessarily poor but at any rate) filler-type "product" (you mean music, right? ) that is OK for the price paid but not necessarily more. Which is why why I had sprung for these two discs mentioned above that DID fill gaps in an otherwise exceedingly skimpy reissue discography (at that time). But how come, then, that quite a few seem to be drooling about those Ellington and Armstrong releases from the same series - artists where on the face of it you ought to be able to easily rehash much more material (from known and released sources) to sell to the unwary from the grab bins? Why the (relatively speaking) "gems" here? What WAS their overall (re)issue policy after all? Really only hit and miss? THAT was my question.

What about these LASERLIGHT CDs (Jazz Collectors Series) in general? I have two (picked up YEARS ago): One feat. the Louis Prima orchestra of the Majestic period, and one which is a split feature for the Chico Marx orchestra and the Desi Arnaz band. Both bought rather cheaply, and I never thought of them as major items, just as impulse buys (at least a period version of "Oh Babe" by the Prima band (omitted on the Savoy twofer), and the first reissue of the Chico Marx band I ever had come across up to that point - novelty interest, for sure ... ). Now how does this LASERLIGHT CD series rate in general? If these Ellington CDs are such major and apparentyl well-programmed gap fillers, then what about issues by other artists? Is Laserlight universally known for picking really heretofore unissued live or radio items from the vaults?

According to LP reviews, the LP "Basie and Friends" (Pablo 2310925) has a couple of Basie-Peterson tracks that are not on any of the others. The liner notes, unfortunately, do not give any accurate session details.

Sure, shit happens. But if you knew how many areas there are (in areas universally considered to be part of the core of industrialized countries) where the outcry of "no commo" (including lack of REAL high-speed internet) becomes valid again (particularly if you are moving about), then you might moderate your adulation of the cloud just a wee bit, maybe, just maybe ... If my car breaks down (rather, should break down) then I eventually make a careful assessment of whether the tradeoff betwen the price paid (= level of service expected) and the number of breakdowns still works out OK for me. If it breaks down too often then I might actually end up feeling that I might not be worse off riding a horse-drawn cart or a bike. Particularly since I would not have expected the same level of service from a cart or a bike in the first place. Which, again, seems to be what has been hinted at in that other post that you "huh"ed, IMO. Nothing more, nothing less. BTW, ever heard of intentional exaggerations in exchanges of "arguments" (rather, points of view) like this? In short, take it easy.

I do think that what jcam_44 hinted at was that the expectations of the cloud are UNCONDITIONAL access at ANY time (as promised by the sales blurb) and not some intermittent access at the whim of outside influences. That would be a somewhat threadbare form of progress. My, how "old school" must I be that I can healthily survive a 2-week holiday without (except for a scant handful of CDs in the car) any access to all my favorite platters!

Easy. In the analog age, if your home (and record collection) was in place A and you were in place B (away from home), you had no acces to your records (unless the period of the analog ge you are thinking of is the one where walkmen already existed ). Expected, to be reckoned with, accepted. Now in the digital age they lure you with the promise of unlimited access to whatever you have stored (particularly all your "favorites") wherever you go, are, drive, eat, work, sleep, etc. Starting with doing your googling, ebaying, etc. on the go wherever you happen to be, with the specific premise that there just is NO limit to access regardless of where you are. Unlimited flexibility at any moment. Now if THAT don't work (even if it only cuts out unpredictably) - well, sh.t ... the KEY feature of all this progress goes out the window. Some fine progress ... ;)

I suppose what he meant was that Mingus got a lot more publicity (for whatever reason ...) and may have been established better in the "insiders' circles". "Commercial" can be a very relative term you know ... Anyway ... I guess I finally need to search for "All About Ronnie" again. It escaped me when 2001 had that run of Japanese Savoy reissue CDs in their stores in the early 2000s at giveaway prices and all the copies I have seen since were just beyond reasonable in their pricing. As if that platter had become some sort of undergorund cult item since ... As for any possible connections, you invariably make them up entirely in your own head and go with what you assimilate in your own personal listening experiences. I don't think to today's jazz ears Tristano is THAT daunting anymore anyway ... I, for example, find Tristano's Savoy Oct. 23, 1947 session (Supersonic/On A Planet/Air Pocket/Celestia) extremely accessible and appealing for its light, airy "vibe", probably also due to its melodic base. In fact a number of years ago I made up a cassette tape for summer, sunshine car driving where that session was mixed with the likes of the mid-40s George Barnes' Octet etc. (Now some may fault me for not listening closely enough if I digest Tristano that easily but hey, why try to find rocks in your way where there ain't? )

So I figured. But you just sounded so anxious about these. Triggered by this thread, i spun that Rex Steart double LP last night. Mighty fine IMO if you are in the mood for some straight-ahead, unpretentious no-frills, blowing for partying. Yep, Bird, Diz, and Flip in the front line. There are three takes of "Hallelujah," two takes of "Get Happy," two takes of "Slam Slam Blues," and five takes of "Congo Blues." That's it for the first disc. Spotlite SPJ127. It's all been out before too. Including all the alternates. Larger group? That "Dialated Pupils" session with Howard McGhee etc.? Spotlite is your label there too. Just in case you're wondering whether filling the few gaps in what you already would make more sense than shelling out for 10 full-price CDs after all.

Coincidcentally, those past few days I've pulled out my 1961/1962 copies of ORKESTER JOURNALEN to read up on some first-hand info on the jazz happenings of those times, and the July/August 1962 issue had a piece about the "Tristano clan" where this was said about Willie Dennis: "The only brass players in that company were trombonist Willie Dennis and trumpeter Don Ferrara. Dennis' only recording in the Tristano idiom is on an LP from 1955 where he is part of a group led by Ronnie Ball. His playing is so engaging that it seems unfathomable that he later preferred to work with Charlie Mingus' Jazz Workshop. But maybe this was triggered by economical reasons. When the abovementioned record was released it never received any particular recomendations by American critics. Nevertheless it contains music that ought to be reason enough for quite a bit more renown just for the soloists' work. Among the best is Ted Brown's "Little Quail", a medium-tempo melody.The recording is nine minutes long and provides rightfully liberal solo space that goes with the material's quality. Here we find Dennis' best solo, an astonishing experience in its own way. Despite his rather relaxed playing, his phrasing in places is rather distinct and it is surprising that he has not been given more attention among the "name" trombonists." Some DID take notice back then.

I have the Buck Clayton session (rec. on Oct. 10, 1949, BTW) on THREE vinyl reissues: 1) Part of it on "Buck" (Jazz Selection LDM 30.021) 2) All of it on "Buck's Mood" (Vogue DP.73 double album), and 3) All of it again on "Buck Clayton / "Jazz Tracks" (Bellaphon BJS 40181) If you are desperate for this session you han have #3 cheaply (its contents are all on #2 too so it is in my duplicates/sale/trade bin). No doubt there are more reissues. I also have the entire Dec. 8-10, 1947 sessions by Rex Stewart on "Rex in Paris 1947-1948" (Barclay 80.972/80.973 2-LP set) as well as part of it on the Jazz Legend label (Jazz Legend No. 6) - surplus to me too, so you can have that Jazz Legend LP too if you want to.

Sorry but this can't be true just like that. That is, unless printing on non-coated paper (which was the standard type of paper for decades in book printing) has RETROGRADED immensely in recent times. A look at some examples of notable (and comparable) picture-heavy books will confirm this. Example 1: Keepnews/Grauer's "Pictorial History of Jazz" which saw several editions and printings through the 50s and 60s. Early printings from the US were pretty atrocious at times. I remember comparing a 1955 US printing (printed in Yugoslavia IIRC) to a c.1962 UK-edition (printed in Czechoslovakia IIRC) and the 1955 edition really was pretty bad. You can see the difference at a glance because most of the contents are strictly the same - many shades of grey present in the 1962 edition just turned into blotched-out black in that 1955 printing (there may have been other early printings, though, which turned out better). A UK edition from the later 60s that I have is again pretty OK for the state of the art of the times. The paper was and felt the same in each case. Certainly not coated paper. So the problem is not a new one. Example 2: The photo reproduction quality in this book ... http://www.amazon.com/Swing-Era-Scrapbook-Teenage-1936-1938/dp/0810854163 is pretty abysmal. Many photos are way too dark, no contrast, far too little gray shadings. Non-coated paper - OK, but this ....?? And this even though the book comes from renowned Scarecrow Press and isn't that cheap. Example 3: OTOH, this book here ... http://www.amazon.com/Country-Music-Originals-Legends-Lost/dp/0195325095/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-1-spell&qid=1411385071 in its orignal hardcover edition is printed on non-coated paper too and overall the whole presentation and "feel" of the book very much has a "vintage" (circa 1960s) touch to it. (Intentionally so??) But the photo reproduction quality really isn't bad at all. In fact, I'd consider it very, very satisfactory. Sky-high above the black blotches in example 2 above. So it CAN be done .... Even without being a printing expert, it looks to me that care taken by the printers (including the prepress stage) is the prime ingredient in coming up with good results.