Big Beat Steve

Not such a big surprise, these records. Understandably someone who would have owned such records even after WWII would not have made them too conspicuous, hence the cover-up inside a different record album. If you know a good bookbinder (or are one yourself) you can do a professional job even as a one-off. I've seen examples of such cover-ups e.g. of 3rd Reich items (more recently thrown on the market as "antiques") that survived the 40 years of Communisn in Eastern Germany. But these records themselves have been around in numbers and there was nothing secret about them being pressed that way as they came as part of a book published soon after Hitler's rise to power. Actually I owned that book years ago (it had come as part of the estate of some distant relative who was of adult age in that period) but without the records; and since I did not really fancy keeping that sort of stuff around I sold it off along with the other books of that type long ago. Helped me finance a bit of my own hobby interests so they did do some good after all.

Is it sort of comforting that they don't drown you in an avalanche of the Billy Vaughn sax section? Or that tweeting of Curtis Stigers?

Sure (indeed there ARE many other more interesting works of music to buy), but then you wouldn't be among those who say "You can't do this with (or to) KOB", right?

Maybe THIS is exactly what bugged some? Those who have put KOB on a sky-high pedestal or in a sacred shrine to be worshipped all year round?

Excellent choices to commemorate him. RIP.

Will do - like his contributions to the Basie band, of course. Though he is not totally up to snuff on that "Basie Reunion" LP from the late 50s (but of course that was extremely fast company).

I didn't really get the original KOB for years, not until i'd been listening to Miles for a long time. It's one of the reasons that i rail against the conventional wisdom that it's a great default entry point for introducing people to jazz. At least it wasn't in my experience. My opinion exactly about that "default". I, for example, got into modern jazz more or less chronologically, starting with the 1945 BIrd and Diz recordings and venturing further and further onwards, easing my way in. My first Miles obviously was BIrth of the Cool (which I found totaly logical from the 1st minute) and I had no problems getting into all his Quintet recordings from the Prestige/Debut era (in fact I'd rate some of these recordings in that "space age bachelor pad" corner too, considering in what settings and moods you tend to listen to them), so what could KOB possibly have done for me when it came to "introducing" me to jazz? Not that I don't "get" KOB - I have listened to it time and again, and like others have mentioned here, I also find that lots of its elements crop up elsewhere in the overall "sound of jazz" from a certain stylistic phase in the evolution of jazz so KOB sort of set the "soundtrack" for part of what came later, but because it is so omnipresent and touted wherever you look and go, I never bothered to get myself a copy - knowing well that whenever I actually wanted one, i would be able to get some reissue/pressing in whatever format suited me at an instant's notice - day or night ... Reminds me of a chance encounter with a German jazz pianist this summer (he has records out though I had never heard of him; friends brought him and his wife along to our summer barbecue). Obviously we got into "talking shop" about jazz at length, and eventually we got to how people get into jazz. Sure enough, when I mentioned that I had never bothered to get a copy of KOB for the above reasons he was sort of baffled because KOB had been one of THE key entry points for him (though by his own statements he has wide ranging tastes and I cannot find traces of KOB in the CD of his he gave me, and he must be in his late 40s so by the time he could have gotten into jazz KOB was not "contemporary" anymore either). Totally different strokes, I guess ...

No, why? He came along AFTER Gullin, didn't he? So he is automatically less important? And/or less of a baritone saxophonist? My .... who says he is less important? Do you actually, really expect EVERYBODY here to rattle off the same who's who of baritone saxists of close to 100 years of jazz all alike? Each and everybody names his personal favorites of the styles of jazz he prefers and listens to most intently, not more, not less. There may be lots of deserving musicians who are off the radar to some but it is not always the same musicians that are off the radar (luckily ...). Remember the recommendations that the thread starter asked for always boil down to very personal matters and judgments. It is not (or should not be) about finger wagging of "you MUST listen to this (or that) one or else you are nowhere ..." It is only the SUM of all recommendations that fleshes out the picture. Besides, how many smiles does one have to put up to show the tone of a message? So PLEASE, relax, OK? ... ;)

Considering the extreme and numerous reactions this "other" thread has triggered, I wonder where you have been these past few weeks, Hardbopjazz?

No, why? He came along AFTER Gullin, didn't he?

Why hasn't anybody named LARS GULLIN yet?? Re- Serge Chaloff, do NOT overlook his "Boston Blow-Up" LP! Re- Sahib Shihab, no matter what some may think of that label, the 2-CD set "Complete Sextet Sessions 1956-1957" on Fresh Sound is a fine roundup of his work from that period IMHO. And then there were his Danish sessions with Brew Moore, etc. And another plug for Ernie Caceres and Leo Parker.

Happy birthday from me too. Enjoy the music and the musical discoveries when you make the rounds at all the jazz venues.

Tell me, all of you .. When you make such fantastic (and numerous) buys over in Japan, how do you get all the stuff home? No doubt packing it all in your luggage might make that luggage largely overweight (and expensive)? Do you send parcels home to your own address? Would that be worthwhile financially? Assuming that you do not suddenly have somebody on hand who happens to move from Japan to Britain right now and still has space available for odd'n'ends in his 20-ft container, right?

As "things WRITTEN on LPs" that we have picked up, do "things stamped or glued" on these LPs count too? One example ... years ago I picked up a clean secondhand copy of Mose Allison's "Young Man Mose" on Prestige (period-correct Metronome pressing) and according to the stamping on the back cover it was previously owned by Hans-Wolf Schneider (HaWe Schneider to those in the know) of Spree City Stompers fame (well-known 50s-60s German revival jazz band of whom HaWe was the leader) and active as a jazz impresario. Just like other contibutors here, I also have quite a few of those where previous owners have carefully annotated each title on the back cover with their individual Down Beat-style rating of stars or dots, and in at least one case (which I cannot locate right now) one earlier owner was displeased enough with part of the LP that he wrote out the words RUBBISH next to one or two tracks!

Yes, so do I - if I hear people (whose tastes I know to be similar to mine) talk about stuff that arouses my curiosity. Has cost me a bundle just reading here through the years ... Let's not make too big a fuss about that above statement anyway - I was just puzzled about how I was to give anybody a recommendation if I don't even know in which direction his tastes actually run. And like I said earlier - in the case of the bebop output on Dial (beyond Bird) I'd find it really hard to clearly rate any one recording/leader much above the others.

Wha ....?? I would have had an exceedingly hard time recognizing Lars Gullin in that 70s video! Ouch ... But really nice playing.

What would make me wonder is what makes Dyer think Coltrane lacked conviction (seeing that he was so "passionately intense"). Which makes me, in tun, wonder what purpose this Yeats statement could serve there at all. Because to me it seems, then, that not only this "Yeatsian oppostion" is false. As a very minimum it seems irrelevant in THIS context and Dyer's turnaround of intensity (allegedly) covering up conviction would be just as off. I am not nearly familiar enough with Trane to pass any sort of judgment but I'd believe anytime that he was very convinced of what he did or attempted to accomplish and believed in it. Regardless of whether this particular performance would rank high among his musical achievements or not. A dangerous thing to do, making such sweeping generalizations for the "general public" (who just might pick up that very statement as a "fact" to be repeated elsewhere in a most inappropriate way), and I can understand that this is galling to those who believe in the music and know the finer details of it.

Having recently updated my run of Ellingtonia from that period by grabbing several of those CBS VINYL twofers first issued in the 70s (and now having more or less the entire run of that album series), how much is there on that set discussed here that was not on those twofers (NOT counting alternates of which there already are quie a few on those twofers anyway)?

Maybe because the "accepted attitude" in some circles was/is that it is a strict NO-NO for HIM to comment on that music? Or why that name calling? As for why no uniformly strong case seems to have been made for that particular performance in this debate, maybe some Trane experts will weigh in? That said, citing Yeats and Adorno, etc., is of course B.S. in ANY such writing. Unfortunately it is an attitude that we over here had had to become accustomed to when it comes to "advanced" (German) scribes writing about "advanced" (not even necessarily free) forms of jazz. That eternal search for respectability and higher levels of art; I guess ... Slinging buzzwords around trying to accomplish that "goal" seems to be ineradicable.

To start with Pops Foster, his SLAP BASS workout with the Luis Russell Orchestra is stellar anytime IMO and has certainly set the framework for many others who followed in that playing style (regardless of the fact that there have been some (critics??) who considered slap bass the ultimate in technical NON-proficiency in playing the "bass fiddle" ) (Different strokes for different folks again ...) As for King Ubu's above list - hey, where's Scott La Faro? (Hey, you don't mean to say ... ?? )

Interesting to read you confirm my impressions, Larry. So it's not "only me".

Happens often in circles of the "learned" who are all out to publish, publish, publish ... Use specific buzzwords that will get you (fairly easily calculable) write-ups and acclaim from a certain circle of critics who will then acknowledge your intellectual insight ...

Well, if you insist ... With all due respect, I beg to disagree about Jamil Nasser. He is one of those who have managed to mar my listening experience here and there, specifically as an accompanist to Al Haig ("Strings Attached"). What's all that droning, booming, resonating bass background that distracts from the lead voices and at times even tends to collide with Jimmy Raney's guitar lines? Not always very sympathetic IMO. Granted that times and styles have evolved since the 50s but what's all that busybody bassing around when, as an accompanist, a somewhat more subordinate role is called for. Where are Ray Brown, Red Callender, etc. when it is all about getting a steady pulse and swing going? There is a time and place for everything and all this droning and resonating may be fine and quite appropriate in other settings, but there?? Or is it all the fault of what recording mix was fashionable in those days? No doubt Al Haig himself felt differently as he used Jamil Nasser often, but still ... Gary Mazzaroppi (with Tal Farlow) is another one in the very same vein (even more so, sometimes crowding out the guitarist) who makes it a bit of a displeasure searching out latter-day recordings by artists who I like immensely. No harm and insult meant, but the way they play there, those bass players just "get in the way" IMO. BTW, talking about dropping names - no interest in Curtis Counce?

OK, thanks. Suits me fine anyway. Following up a full title (if really interested) on your own instead of just relying on the convenience of a clickable link should not be too much of an effort for anybody.

I wouldn't have bypassed that either. Congrats!