Big Beat Steve

Isn't it quite natural that tastes differ? And exaggeration sometimes helps to convey a message too ... Though it was spurred in part by one of the Beatles' (Ringo??) much later admission that they indeed had gone wildly overboard with all their Guru and psych stuff in the second part of the 60s.

No, you're not. Here's another one. But I was sort of late to the game anyway - started listening consciously to music at 13 in 1973 and bought my first LPs at 14 1/2 years in early spring of 1975 so when I got into music the Beatles had already passed into history. But of course you still were exposed to them everywhere. While many of my schoolmates (who of course were into the then current Hard Rock, Blues Rock, Krautrock, Psychedelic Rock and whatever ...) tended more towards the later Beatles albums, my own rock tastes from Day One leaned much more towards REAL Rock'n'Roll, i.e. Eddie Cochran, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Gene Vincent, et al. So to the extent that the Beatles sounded that essential to me at all, it was obviously their early albums that struck much more of a chord with me whereas I neither could nor would really buy into that screwy, weird Sitar, Oriental, pot smoking, high flying, zonked out stuff of the past-Rubber Soul era, just like out-and-out psychedelic rock and similar genres never were for me. I liked my music a bit more gutsy, immediate and down to earth (but I therefore also understand those who find some of the Beatles tunes on the very early albums a bit girlish). Another reason why the early Beatles albums should not be belittled IMO - it was THOSE albums that created the huge impact of Beatlemania outside the UK and changed the course of rock music forever (imagine white U.S. pop/"rock" would have been stuck in a Bobby Vee, Ricky Nelson, Bobby Rydell, Frankie Valli etc. rut for much longer ) whereas the later ones were done when the Beatles already were an ultra-established act worldwide and (again IMHO) the impact of those albums had more to do with everybody in the rock or pop world waiting for the next word from the Beatles and the Gospel they would preach therein. Sort of "you can't go wrong with the latest Beatles release" thing ...

I suppose they had to gloss over the fact that Trane is present only on some of the selections. Apparently Trane sells - but Byrd, Farmer, Quill, Rehak, Cohn,. etc - much less so.

Another suggestion, David: Keep a watchful eye on www.bokborsen.se This is an antiquarian, secondhand, remainder stock and OOP book site that may have a copy coming up now and then. The books put up for sale there don't have to be decades old so you never know ...

Are you sure you posted in the right thread, Niko?? Why not in the "Hate Hard Bop" thread, if at all? So let's back on track on the subject ON HAND ...

Well, I wouldn not have minded a full bilingual version either (particularly since this would have meant more pics, more period publication repros, etc. spread throughout the inlcreased numer of pages )) but I do think they had their budget constraints too and figured such single-country box sets would sell largely on the domestic market anyway.

About the liner notes: They are essentially Swedish (no major reading problem for me, I'll admit..) but they include a summary in English that is far shorter than the Swedish liner notes but still comparatively detailed (i.e. not just a single-page brief rundown).

Yes, the booklets that go with those CD sets are real gems. And, BTW, they once again show what a pity it is that comprehensive booklets really became a WIDESPREAD addition to collector discs in the CD era only. If you compare the booklets of the VINYL versions and those of the CD versions (like I said, Vols. 1 to 4 were first issued on vinyl) then the LP-size booklets win hands down, of course, because the (numerous) illustrations are significantly larger overall.

Ah ... those .... I have Vols. 1 to 8 (Vols. 1 to 4 on vinyl, Vols. 2 to 8 on CD) and I find them all excellent (if CDs would really wear out then some of the would be worn by now ). Evidently my tastes differ from those of King Ubu (and I am biased in favor of Swedish jazz from the 1935-60 period anyway), but while Vols. 6 to 8 would be most fitting as musical illustrations to Jan Allan's book, I'd certainly advise not to downplay or shrug off Swedish jazz (even pre-1945) unduly. They did have their own thing going, and while some vocals and some big band arrangements are indeed relatively stiff (but not more so than the average German oreven English ones), there are a fair bit of individualistic voices to be found there that make for interesting listening. But of course, to some extent you DO HAVE to be able to listen to this music in the context of its times in order to be appreciate then on their proper terms. Blah about them being "derivative" etc. won't do the matter justice.

Which might give a clue as to the source material they used. I'll try and compare this track with the Mercury LP reissue I have of that session. And thanks for your comparison, BTW!

All in all I paid 378 SEK (including shipping) which equalled 44.95 EUR.

Thanks, Romualdo. So this sesssion in its entirety is reissued for the first time here, it seems ... I am fairly sure I have the Swingtime LP listed by Lord. IIRC it is credited to Buck Clayton and includes a sampling of rarities and oddities usually overlooked in other reissues. But this still seems to leave two titles all new to the reissue world.

O.K., my box set arrived yesterday and I spun through 2 or 3 of the discs. The sound is quite good to me, though I have a lot of the more familiar Keynotes on vinyl reissues on Dutch, UK, US and Japanese Mercury, some of which I've owned since the late 70s and they DID get some play here (so no matter how shiny the vinyl still looks, there must be some wear on them by now so they are not 100% ideal for comparison). I only have the Roy Eldridge/Trumpets volume from the Jap. Essential Keynote CD series and have not compared those yet (and am not likely to do so very soon). So I'll bow to the audiophiles for nitpickety fidelity comparison too. As for the book, I am rather impressed too. The story of Keynote is presented quite well (I was unaware of how John Hammond got into the picture, for example), and IMO Harry Lim does deserve the focus placed on him (if only to offset that he has been ignored by Eddie Condon - cf. the pictures from that 1939 LIFE jam session party featured in the book; if you compare them to the pictures from that session in Eddie Condon's "Scrapbook" you will find he consistently omits Harry Lim in the captions when listing those seen in the pics.) As for the comments on the music, no complaints from my side about the period record reviews. Sure, some of it is a bit "blurb"-ish, but how many academic hindsight-laden assessments of the music do you need, considering that this has done before in other reissues? And if you deduct the bio info on the participating musicians from those latter-day music evaluations (info that any seasoned collector can and will look up elsewhere) the discussion of the actual music slims down considerably. OTOH I find most of those period reviews really fascinating as they shed light on the music the way it was perceived at the time and how it responded to the tastes of those days (assuming the critics weren't at total odds with the buyers' tastes all the time). Much better IMO in providing a path to enjoying the music the way it was enjoyed (and not dissected) by the jazz-loving public back then, even if you don't agree with the review ratings. Not the worst option of appreciating the music even today IMO (if you need background info at all in addition to the music as such). Just my 2c. BTW, one major question: This box inlcudes a 4-track session by a Horace Henderson-led band that was recorded by Keynote but for unknown reasons was sold to the JAMBOREE label and released there (but never on Keynote). The book says this session is reissued here for the first time (thanks to a set of 78s provided by Eddie Bert who had participated in the session and had kept a set of the records). Is that so? Is this session NOT included in the 21-LP Japanese box either? This would be amazing ... Or do they mean "reissued on CD for the first time"?

According to the commonly known historical accounts, Doris Parker had a hand in running the label.

Yes, thanks Mjzee. Will stick a printout of your findings inside the box (which I bought just as much for various of the non-Bird sessions, BTW, and on an overall value-for-money tradeoff still am not too displeased )

Well, this does sound promising, Greg - thanks very much! Will hold my comments on your assessment of the booklet until I have received my copy but from what you say this booklet doesn't seem to be too bad. And after all, quality or thoroughness of the booklets can vary immensely with reissuers who don't fall into the "P.D. label" category as well, as we have recently seen in the case of Uptown (cf. Jacquet/Parker Toronoto CD), for example.

i know you know it's identical to the bethlehem artwork... or did you mean 'corny' as in it looks as if he's sitting in a cornfield? Not just typical Parlophone, probably. More like typical of a lot 60s covers, even in Rock music, when apparently many producers/artwork people saw fit to show the musicians in all sorts of pastures/rural/pseudo-nature settings - anything to make them lurk around in places where they probably never set foot when PLAYING their music ...

So ... after that box set had zigzagged from "available on..." to "not currently available" to "available from ..." and now finally to "in stock and available" on various Amazon sites (buying directly from FS would not have yielded much benefit due to added shipping costs from Spain) I have now taken the plunge and ordered the set from amazon.de while it IS in fact stated as being available. Anybody else did the same from other sites (such as co.uk) and what shipping time frames did they indicate to you?

Haha, file those under "Seemed like a good idea at the time"? Ha - over here quite a few of the vols. from that Jazz Heritage Series (with exactly the same tracks in the same order) were reissued on German Brunswick in their "The Golden Swing Years" series in the mid-60s, strictly in mono and with no tampering. On the other hand those Decca Jazz Heritage LPs were very nicely compiled for their time and for some LPs from that Decca Jazz Heritage Series there just was no subsitute (that was compiled as well) in any other reissue series for a VERY long time - e.g. the Jan Savitt LP (DL 79243) (and as Trev no doubt will confirm this one has some great lindy hoppers' delights on it ... )

Something to get me started up really easy this morning after a concert and party night that had finished sort of late: - Al Haig "Today!" (Mint LP 711) Or is it strictly as per midnight (when the previous evening actually had not yet ended before going to bed)? In this case my very first spin of 2014 after returning home at 4 am would be - Michael Hurtt & His Haunted Hearts "Come Back To Louisiana" (Allons AL-LP02) They appeared at a rockabilly festival here on New Year's Eve and I liked their set so I bought their 2 LPs.

Concentrating on the core period of the ban (August, 1942 to October, 1943), here is another one: The Woody Herman LP "Dance Time Forty-Three" on the (U.K.) First Heard label has several transcriptions by the band from February to June, 1943 which, according to the liner notes, include a few contributions by Dizzy Gillespie to the band's book. Was going to suggest the "Redcross" sessions featuring Charlie Parker from 1943 too but I see this has already been covered above.

Well, the lack of Earl Hines big band recordings is one major gap that, alas, looks like it will remain forever. Apart from that, there must be quite a few non-commercial recordings from that period that might help to document musical happenings during that period but they are scattered all over the place in the way they have been issued later on (will have to search my vinyl). Apart from airshots and jam sessions, transcriptions might also be a source. What immediately comes to mind are quite a few live recordings by the Count Basie band from 1943. Also, remember that not all the record companies sat out the strike to the very end. Studio recording was well under way again by early November, 1943.

Yes, agreed, and I for one find that on reading a statement like this my curiosity is aroused but I Don't think I'd hold that statement against him (I've read much weirder comments and judgments between fellow musicians). Only I am afraid now we won't get to know the "inside story" anymnore. (Did it end up as an "out-take" on the "cutting room floor" of that above interview, i wonder? ...)

Well, talking about "rogue Xmas songs" hidden in one's collection, would Ralph Burns' WINTER SEQUENCE tunes such as "Dancer", "Dancer", "Prancer", "Vixen", etc. be "rogue"-ish to count too? http://falalalala.com/fireside/index.php?topic=1158.0

Maybe just something like "He did not have the best technique in the world but he had original and personal ideas to say" or somethinglike that? After all, if you play an instrument, ONE way of defining talent that a person has would be to go by how he can handle his instrument, wouldn't it. I mean (going to the opposite extreme), what good would it be having boundless ideas if you cannot translate (and therefore express) them on your instrument in full? I cannot and won't judge how Art Pepper's mastery of the horn would rate compared to other altoists "up there" (don't feel qualified to comment on that by a long shot) but I cannot quite see how such a comment from one musician about another could rub anybody the wrong way as long as we don't know the full story behind it. Wouldn't it rather be just a case of curiosity about finding out WHAT that story is in order to understand better? In the end, is there any musican out there (apart a scant handful) who'd rightfully be placed on a pedestal above criticism from FELLOW musicians? And after all, do we know what Art Pepper in turn had to say about HIS fellow musicians in his day? So it's pointless IMO, particularly in an obit thread (considering how no-no's of what one would be entitled to say or not say in an obit are flung about here time and again ...)