Big Beat Steve

Not if you regularly came across the entire L&R record catalog in your jazz bins in the record shops when these LPs were current. They often had this kind of play on words.

This was one of the mistitlings I was alluding to in my post. Bruyninckx indiactes both spellings refer to one and the same track and recording and he lists the "Chloe-Patra" version specifically for the L&R LP.

Depends on the language you wish to speak with a French accent ...

This IS difficult indeed, mainly because some titles were recorded several times and some were mistitled here and there. And dates HAVE been mixed up From what I recall offhand (and what seems to be confirm the above), most of the Blue Note LP (6 of the 8 tracks I believe) are on the Cool Dogs & Two Oranges LP (on the L&R label). The "Lost Tapes" recordings aren't all lost. There are a couple of releases (two on the LP and a couple more on the extra tracks on the CD) that were originally issued on Brunswick (some originally credited to Hans Koller IIRC). But they don't duplicate the Bue Note/Cool Dogs.../Fresh Sound releases as far as I can see. As far as I can remember the "Das is Jazz" LP (I have the original at home) again includes the odd Jutta Hipp track from those Brunswick sessions that were originally released on EPs in Germany. Can check later but I think David Ayers has answered the gist of it all perfectly - so these few lines just to confirm what he says and what I'd found out by checking for myself some time ago. BTW, kudos for that excellent review, not least of all for pointing out that German jazz did NOT start with Schlippenbach, Brötzmann, Mangelsdorff (Albert, that is) and their ilk. Far from it. And the earlier ones weren't all "derivative", as DB would have been wont to say ... (at least not more than a good deal of the US output of those days too)

He did play with Paul Butterfield's band. and Little Milton, IIRC, v. early on. What I meant to say is - whatever he did - does this qualify him as one of the BEST EVER in that particular idom? Of all times? Right among the greatest of the great? Somehow I doubt it. Just look at all those really great R&B sax men (leaders and session men alike) who came up through the decades. This sounds more like some PR blurb like they come up with in those "all time great" histories published for the not to historically aware public where out of 100 pages maybe 20 or 30 pages are devoted to whoever was great up to maybe 10 years ago and the remaining 70 or 80 pages are reserved for those who are "great" right now. And this kind of skewed PRESENT-DAY perspective disregards the fact that there were many more who were just as great in THEIR day and who were not forgotten any quicker than those who are perceived to be bigshots now are fairly likely to be forgotten 10 or 15 years from now when their heyday will be over.

No harm or no offense meant. Opinions and tastes differ, you know ... (And of course I suppose you realize my "atypical" reference of Sam Most's Bird, Bud, Monk & Miles LP refers to the fact that it is a NON-flute item? )

I've never been one to like flutes in jazz, find it difficult to stand Bud Shank on flute (though I consider myself a bit of a WCJ fan), can only digest some very early Herbie Mann but found the Bethlehem LPs by Sam Most always very, very enjoyable. Don't know how representative they are of his later work but his "clarinet-esque" (?? don't know how to describe it otherwise) flute work on the one where he alternates between flute and clarinet always was right up my alley. And his Bird, Bud, Monk & Miles LP may be atypical but is fine anyway IMO. RIP

Sounds like a Johnny Smith vs Tal Farlow partisan feud might be in the air as for "guitar chops". Anyway, RIP Mr Smith. Here's another one who's appreciated your music (though admittedly I've pulled out my Tal Farlow Verve albums far more often than your Roost LPsthrough the years)

"Sanborn, one of the best R&B saxophonists of all times ..."?? Yikes! :excited:

Can't recall having ever seen any CANNED wine in shops in Germany, at least not in the usual outlets. Maybe marketed as a sort of gimmick here and there, but beyond that? Wine marketed in TETRA-PAKS has aroused a lot of consternation here when first sighted (though probably not as much as in France, I guess). This has subsided long since but wine sold in Tetra-Paks but has definitely retained a "low-brow"/"cut-rate" image so if THIS is how they want to "democratise" the sale of wine?

Above all it doesn't look particularly Hepburn-ish to me at all, rather like some typical nondescript late 60s-ish selling gimmick using models in what was perceived to be fashionable (and was not unlike the garb worn by certain TV show ballet dancers where orchestras such as this one would often provide the background music) but dated pretty badly and soon was an eyesore in the cut-price bins (and still is today when you have to wade through album cover dross like this in secondhand vinyl clearout sale bins as this kind of cover hasn't even become "cult"-ish enough yet to attract the attention of "easy listening" collectors ).

Senior citizens getting into classic cars? The plight of the classic car scene .... always has been, always will be. Because there are two distinctly different types of senior citizens who are into classic cars: 1) Those who've always been car-minded, who've taken an interest in the cars and mechanicals earlier in their lives, maybe working on then in their job, or who have owned such cars earlier off and on (when they still were just "used cars") and now that more spare time (and money) is on hand they get back to these earlier interests, bringing things full circle. Can be a very fine breed within the hobby and often is. 2) But it also brings in a whole bunch of show-offs who use classic cars as a vehicle to flash their allegedly superior sense of style and individualism and "ways of the world", though they are about as clueless as it gets about what they drive because, of course, they are having ALL the work done on their cars by hired hands (specialists), and if you ask them about details and the specs of their cars at car shows they either just plain don't know or they can't be bothered to engage in any sort of constructive dialog. How do I know? Am still a fair bit away from retirement but bought my first 50s classic car (1955 model) at age 18 and except for a 6-month hiatus at age 24 have owned classic cars from the 50s (and worked on them for better or worse ) for close to 35 years now (so you can do the maths ). And though my cars have been non-US all the time, enough of the US classic car scene is common knowledge these days, particularly if you have a fair number of US car fetichists in your own surroundings within the hobby. As for the list of 9, a curious mixture it is and I wonder what prompted THIS selection exactly: - Model A: At that kind of starting money, expect to have to do some work on the car, and trying to conclude a really good deal you will be given a run for your money by the hot rodding fraternity (who continue to be in search of raw material for their own projects). - Mustang and T-Bird: Depending on the model year, the prices seem a trifle low to me for a car that has not just been tarted up (which might prove disastrous in the long run, particularly to elderly newbies who do not necessarily have the stamina required in this hobby which CAN be prone to defects, cut-outs and breakdowns on ANY old/classic car). - MGB: Run of the mill stuff, and beware of botched examples which just look good on the SURFACE. - Studebaker Avanti: This is no car made by the "BIg Three" where specialists, parts outlets and service facilities abound even for cars THAT old. Parts are harder to come by, specialist knowledge (and patience) is requrired in sourcing certain items when they are needed. In short: BEWARE, senior citizens! This is not for you newbies in the hobby, unless you have enough stamina and a good measure of determination! ;) - Chrysler Windsor: The 1955 was a fine car, but as a starter car for newbies in the hobby who DON'T care to get really involved in that particular model? Ho hum ... See Studebaker (almost). But it sure is nice to see what scribes outside the classic car hobby (or concerned with tables and figures only) blurb about these cars ...

Returned from a 10-day family holiday in Southern France at the Mediterranean coast earlier this week, where during our stay there I had made the rounds at the usual weekly fleamarkets, "brocantes" etc. Yielded some finds for my various collecting obsessions here and there, and one of the fleamarket stalls at last I happened upon a trove of 50s party records that had at least a moderate inclination towards jazz. And so the three 10-inchers and seven EPS shown below (along with six more 50s pop/mambo EPs) became mine for a measly 6 euros (approx. 8US$) altogether. Usual cover wear and very, very dusty vinyl (must have sat in some grain mill basement or so for ages) but they all cleaned up nicely and play well. Ha - FOR ONCE a French fleamarket where you dig out more than just Sidney Bechet or the very occasional Satch/Duke after flipping through loads of vinyl!!

What a pity. Saw him several times from 1990 through approx. 2005 when he was on tour with the re-formed Comets, and it was always an incredible act, considering the average age of the musicians. And Marshall Lytle and Joey D'Ambrosia always were the ones who really pulled it along despite their age even at a time when Frannie Beecher and (the late) Johnny Grande were already economising their efforts and Dick Richards very much was on his last legs by the standards of stage strain. Thanks for great shows, Marshall, and you will be missed even by the much younger and the really young 'uns in the Rockin' Scene!

I dimly remember seeing one or two rare eBay auctions of originals of "In Action" at the time I bought my facsimile reissue (about 10 years ago), and they fetched steep prices (several hundred $).

:tup On a more serious note, though, reports over here had it today that a NEWBORN child in a maternity unit in Poland was diagnosed with an alcohol level of 0.45!!! (no, not 0.045 - really 0.45!) This because the mother who had collapsed SLOPPY DRUNK in public had to be rushed to the hospital to have the child delivered in an emergency before more serious damage was done. The poor newborn is still in critical condition, though. Wonder if that "mother" has a driver's license and whatever she might have been up to at other occasions .. On the actual subject, beats me how ANYBODY can make enjoying themselves at whatever party or public event depend on gulping down alcoholic beverages. Is that really THAT necessary? Can't these characters loosen up and enjoy themselves without resorting to "little helpers" like that? And what's this thing about ruining club/restaurant business? Are there that many who feel they are being sneered at for being "weaklings" if they limit themselves to soft drinks or whatever non-alcoholic stuff whenevery they have to drive? Maybe a reevaluation of the company they're keeping might be in order, then ...

...an original pressing? I'm no expert but it has a red label with the Studio 4 logo on it and a number of XCTV-97116/7. Is that an original? And no VSOP 1 indication anywhere? I have a VSOP facsimile reissue with the original Studio 4 cover art and red label and it says VSOP in several places on the cover and label, so no mistaking there. The numbers you indicate figure on my reissue too and seem to be the matrix numbers for side 1/2. But wouldn't these be uncommonly complicated matrix numbers for such tiny labels of that era? Were there several reissues, maybe? A question to the experts re- "The Message": How does the Xanadu vinyl reissue (Xanadu 126) hold up soundwise compared to the original or other reissues? I have no intention of forsaking my vinyl (it sounds quite decent to me) but am just curious ..

So you've changed your avatar, Aloc ... Quite OT I know, but here is something somewhat jazzy to underline your avatar ... Have fun!

For how many decades has Gunter Hampel beein involved in a music that is US-American in its origins and therefore essentially uses English as a "lingua franca"when it is being talked about? Alas the way Gunter Hampel's message is worded it comes across a bit awkwardly in that respect ... Seriously and honestly, beyond the understandable and regrettable demise of jazz clubs, however, where has Mr Hampel been all those decades? Where and when has there ever been a "jazz TV station" in his HOME country? I dimly recall a time when SWF (J.E. Berendt's "home TV station") was BIT more active in getting jazz programs on the screen, but that was how many decades ago again? And beyond that, what was there? (Not counting the TV/radio stations' big bands playing semi- or 3/4-jazz tunes here and there to spice up otherwise MOR orchestra programs) And as for Pops' "scepter" being handed down to Mr Hampel (directly, even? ) to spread the gospel of jazz ... Does he (or most others) realize the stylistic divide between Pops' jazz and Mr Hampel's jazz the way it invariably will make itself felt to newbie listeners supposed to be introduced to jazz as a music that is relatively new to them? Not an easy thing to manage if you want to win new fans over at first listening. Jazz has taken on an exceedingly wide spectrum of stylistic meanings that are all supposed to fall under the all-encompassing generic term of "jazz". But are all specific types of jazz just as easily digestible or accessible to a given newbie listener? It isn't all the same with jazz and objectively speaking the stylistic differences can be far wider than between, say, death metal and rap, so what kind of jazz are we talking about? On a local level in Mr Hampel's home country, there IS a subculture of clubs and events where live swinging jazz is being played, including to listening audiences but also (but not limited to) to the entire swing and lindy hop dancers' set (just had to skip such an event locally last night here), so there ARE bands and fans out there who find venues where to have a good time to unpretentious (!), swinging jazz music. You just have to be alert to it and want to search it out open-mindedly. Talking about Göttingen, just THIS tiny example for a taster (as yielded by some QUICK googling): http://lindyvirus.com/ Maybe too mainstreamish or (to use a favorite term of oldtime D.B. reviewers) "derivative", and certainly not experimental enough to Mr Hampel's (and other's) jazz ambitions but oh well ... his loss, not theirs. This is just what the problem is all about IMO. Jazz has become so very many-faceted that one common denominator (as if this was ONE style of music) just won't fit the bill anymore. (Actually it hasn't fitted the bill anymore at least since the 70s) Isn't it just so ... you can very well like 2 or 3 or 4 styles of jazz while at the same time disliking (or being bored or annoyed by) 2 or 3 or 4 other styles of jazz and STILL be a jazz fan. Hardly anybody embraces ALL styles of jazz to the SAME degree. Now if this leaves the avantgardists out in the cold right now, then this is just a coincidence in time because at other times avantgarde, experimental, free, collective whatever were all the rage everywhere and anybody going for more "traditional" swinging styles of jazz found themselves being sneered at everywhere by the self-professed "enlightened" jazz circles .... There just ARE some jazz fans who would prefer Scott Hamilton over Peter Brötzmann ANYTIME (or maybe Lionel Hampton over Gunter Hampel ). (The opposite stylistic preferences have long been taken for granted, but some developments in jazz and its styles and tastes just run in circles - "back to the roots" - instead of in a linear manner - "far and ever farther out" ) Sorry, but simply had to get this off my chest ...

Why is this topic OUTSIDE the music section? And how about some nicely non-P.C. 40s/50s stuff? "Explicit" (what an EXCEEDINGLY puritanly silly term in ANY era!) lyrics were not limited to the 20s AFAIK and in a way seem to have been just as revolting to the sedate set in the post-WWII years (witness the crossover of the music to white listening audiences - and the reactions by the teens' elders - when R'n'R was born ). Some of the more obvious ones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W19KDTz6iVE and so on ... BTW, as for Lucille Bogan's Shave Em Dry, the respective chapter of Paul Oliver's "Screening The Blues" would make for VERY interesting reading and for more versions of that song.

My point is that the Jutta Hipp CD was already discussed last fall. Plainly and simply. Just a statement of fact. No totally unlike all those other threads here where a topic that had already been discussed in another thread in this forum was invariably linked to (maybe - a bit understnadably IMO - to avoid atomizing related discussions in a zillion separate threads). Like it or not.

Not quite so new. Thsi label has been discussed here:

OMG, JSngry, where did you dig out these abominations of the type we had to wade through in so many record bins in the 70s (and even today in used record clearout bins)?

I think we misunderstood each other. What I meant to say was that I realize those Rischka LPs were very rare but your statement in your post of 3 May that European jazz LPs had such small pressing runs (which no doubt basically was true but cannot be generalized IMO, at least not in the case of German 70s jazz) cannot have been that true in the case of Dauner's OTHER 70s Eurojazz LPs. Because, like I said, "Knirsch" und "Oimels" (and probably others) were all over the place wherever you looked in the German record shop jazz sections throughout the second half of the 70s (and beyond). Same for other German jazz releases from that period (and I am NOT talking about Doldinger's Passport, of course ). (I know - I VERY often checked out the entire "German jazz" bins in search of specific Telefunken a.o. reissues in those years but to no avail - only found them secondhand much later - and therefore remember having to flip through countless 70s German free/fusion etc. jazz releases in those bins ).

Agree about Adrian Rollini, but talking about bass saxists form that era, I think Joe Rushton was no slouch either.