Big Beat Steve

It would be interesting to know who that exactly was. If the documentary was done that long ago almost all of the eleven German players from the 54 finals would still have been alive. But usually it was only 2 or 3 of the "usual suspects" who got interviewed in the media (until the number of survivors diminished dramatically). At any rate that might help to put things into perspective since strangely enough, to the best of my knowledge no mention was made of this in those NUMEROUS media reports, writeups, publications etc. when all that hullaballoo about the 50th anniversary of the '54 finals came around in 2004. With the sports media being what they are I think it's unlikely they would have managed to hide THAT from media coverage at that time.

Ha, I wonder what eventually will become of all this. That story of alleged doping of the German '54 team is about as old as Old Man Moe's beard and has been refuted (or proved wrong) before. One aspect of this being that a sports such as football with extremely alternating demands on the individual players does not really suit itself to "classic" doping substances - as opposed to endurance sports like in athletics, cycling etc. where you are out to go straight ahead as fast and/or as long-lasting as you can. But who knows ... what with the large-scale doping having gone on in Eastern Bloc sports since Heaven knows when, it might eventually boil down to a case of "My dope is better than your dope"? (BTW, no sour grapes please, Brownie, just beause Pibarot's men and Kopa's buddies fared so dismally in the '54 tournament? ;))

Same here. People like her need to be interviewed at length so their recollections, background knowledge, etc. can be recorded for posterity. After all, what's that (African) saying again? "An elder who dies is like a library that burns down."

None of the barriers of era, pastness, racism, lack of technological means of reproduction, etc. that apply in the cases of the "old legendary actors who barnstormed before the days of film, the great Negro League baseball players, the great old minstrel-age entertainers whose work has essentially been lost" seem to me to apply to Schildkraut, other than that what he does survive to some degree on third-party testimony. As for him being a victim of external and/or internalized Crow Jim attitudes -- Konitz? Art Pepper? No need to go back to the minstrel era etc. Just take any number of JAZZ "musicians' musicians" from the 20s or generally those 20s jazz musicians who (according to testimonials by those who heard them play) were never adequately captured on record (because the recordings were influenced to a MUCH higher degree by conservative record company/A&R men tastes) and who really came into their own live on stage (none of which was preserved for posterity). There must have been MANY like that ...

Hello to all jazz bibliophiles Here comes a plea to those who own the above book. I am currently working my way through this (IMHO) highly informative and fascinating book but due to its sheer volume this does take its time. So it is only now that I discover that my copy (bought secondhand via the web quite a while ago) has a printing/binding error which means that pages 459 to 490 are missing (a number of pages up to page 458 are duplicated instead). Is there any owner of this book out there who'd be able and willing to provide me with scans of those pages 459 to 490 (or with photocopies, which might be a feasible and affordable option if a European forum member happens to own this book)? Any help would be appreciated and expenses will be reimbursed, of course.

Just a gimmick for the photographer, I think. Actually I wonder if that trombonist is Tadd Dameron at all. The pic isn't very clear but somehow his face looks a bit lean compared to other known pictures of Tadd from that period.

No, but I'd sure like to hear other opinions too as this is a book that would figure high on my shopping list.

The liner notes of the Jazztone LP (reprinted on the FS reissue) say indeed the recording was made in Webster Hall.

Two, in fact: "Claude Williamson" (BLP-59) and "Round Midnight" (BLP-69).

The first 8 sides (complete with alternates) from the above Classics CD can be found on this LP (TAX m-8015, Sweden):

Please don't get totally carried away, everybody ... That's not worth it ...

Indeed, and that's EXCEEDINGLY common.

Thank goodness neither Leonard Feather nor John Hammond have ever had a chance of becoming members of this forum, then. Now THAT would have raised sumpin'!

You don't. I have 28. And I also own some 45 LPs covering mostly the 1950-1958 period as well a 2-CD set with his 50s Capitol TRANSCRPITIONS. So I guess I qualify as a sort of fan. In fact at a local clearout sale yesterday i bought his "Some Women I've Known" LP from his own Creative World label and found it rather refreshing to listen to (though I am not the biggest fan of female 50s jazz vocalists in the world). count me in among those who find more in his music from that period tha tother who constantly denigrate him - though, OTOH, after having bought and listened to his somewhat legendary "The Kenton Era" 4-LP set I can understand (to a degree) those who take him to task for his "bombastic excesses" and there are moments when I can understand Shelly Manne who found the job in his band like "chopping wood" too. But there is plenty of Kentonia to discover to offset all that. And as for what Stereojack said about his "later" stuff (after the 40s and 50s) getting less interesting, one record I found quite fascinating is his "The Uncollected" Hindsight LP featuring transcriptions of his 1962 "Mellophonium" orchestra. Quite interesting, not bombastic at all to my ears, and really ear-catching. I am not familiar with his commercially released output with that band but what I heard there is really an intirguing starting point IMHO.

I hear you! :rofl: Though you know quite well the point was a different one. (Different people being accused of shortcomings at different times - and some of them in comparable ways - but definitely NOT ALL of these people being lumped together at the SAME time )

Thanks Jeff, but would you mind if I myself would opt for some SCOTCH instead? (Yes, that might be another case of disagreement Going to play me some Dodo Marmarosa now for some interesting harmonics.

Well, I guess we'd both agree on a lot of what we listen to on 78s, isn't it? (At least I'd agree with most of your comments on the 78s you reported on here ) And where we don't (on 78s or otherwise), wouldn't it be dreary if everybody had the same tastes? The bottom line IMHO is that anyway you look at it, a lot of what one would consider of merit really is in the "ear of the behearer". Because like MMilovan said, if you'd dissect the music really closely no doubt there would be tons and tons of aimless rambling "that goes nowhere" to be found in many of those "blowing sessions" dear to the heart of many hard boppers too.

Oh, well, the same can easily be said during listening to some very famous, well-known, "serious" jazz legends. And contemporary musicians too. Oh but you forget, MMilovan: George Shearing may (and will) probably be faulted for NOT making full use of what he is capable of. WHEREAS - those others who you probably think of (and me too ) played jazz in a style that might best be described as "anything goes". But if you feel that what they play just goes nowhere then either you just don't understand - or this rising and falling, going around in circles is an aim in itself because it is OH so intensely delivered ... ;) And then again there are those who actually were poor, tormented, pained souls who just could not cope with what they would have to cope in order to do things properly and not get hung up in what they did. So losing your way, rambling aimlessly on and fumbling in search of what you actually would have wanted to say is all fine by these standards, regardless of the fact that it ought to have remained mercifully unrecorded. Note: No, I am not primarily thinking about certain pianists that would come to mind but a case in point is ERNIE HENRY. Period reviews found his tone poor and uncultured, his playing childish, incapable of expressing his ideas, playing out of tune, straining at getting to grips with his instrument and at trying to say what he would have had to say, etc. And then all of a sudden in more recent reviews and writeups he is lauded for his oh so passionate and deeply felt playing. Now which is which, really? (My personal opinion based on what I've heard is probably somewhere between these two extremes) And to top it off, Bob Rusch states in one review his glaring errors and being out of focus would have been perfect if his name had been Ornette Coleman but not in his case since he just was not Ornette. Numb fumbling on purpose as something to strive for? Or doesn't it really only boil down to a case of what one would WANT TO HEAR in a given artist, regardless of what that artist actually was/is or aimed for? A bit like the way Brubeck is criticised.

Good question ... Some will probably and automatically reply by stating that "easy going" is synonymous with "not enough depth". Though I'd venture to say not all of those who proclaim to be able to absorb those "deep" and "complex" forms of jazz REALLY DO understand it inside out. They didn't then and they don't now. Nodding one's head in sophistication is one thing but REALLY absorbing it with every fiber despite everything that might just strike you as "far out" is quite another. In fact, IMHO it is more a matter of so many jazz lovers being conditioned exclusively on the jazz of that era performed by those "ANGRY YOUNG MEN" and if being angry (and the music that comes from it) is the key word then "easy going" or even "happiness" is just anathema to it all. Especially as it might very well challenge the very concept of this "angry" sort of jazz if you have to admit that at the same time there were other valid forms of jazz too if you are prepared to listen to it on its OWN merits. That said, I agree with all the good that has been said about his MGM recordings. His Capitol recordings are a mixed bag indeed and you would have to pick the jazzier items carefully. The other day I played his "Shearing On Stage!" album and found it fair enough. Though his pretty feeble jokes he includes in his "emceeing job" as the bandleader do wear thin quite rapidly and sort of mar the overall effect of the music as such. But did Shearing claim all of his Capitol stuff was hard core jazz any more than the latter-day Wes Montgomery or George Benson did with THEIR works? OTOH maybe us "Yurpeans" aren't the most "objective" persons to judge Shearing anyway. Considering the substantial influence of the "Shearing sound" on a lot of what was happening in jazz in EUROPE in the 50s (in Germany and Sweden, for example) I think we do tend to approach his music from a slightly different angle and maybe give him more leeway than others would.

Frank Teschemacher. Bix Beiderbecke. (No, just like in the case of the abovementioned Fats Navarro jazz doesn't come in album doses only - far from it, so if you wish, take this to mean "three albums' worth of material" ) Oh yeah - and lest I forget: Chu Berry Charlie Christian

Luckily they aren't Spanish, or else this series would be called "All my exits"!

Agree. Dont know if this happens in your neck of the woods but one thing that really bugs me is these dimwits who drive about - like you said, really oblivious to what's going around them - while holding their phone to their RIGHT ear with their LEFT hand, so wrapping their arm all around themselves and trying to do the steering AND shifting with that remaining right hand (remember most cars here still are stick shift ), now that's indeed something that I feel really uneasy about all the time. And I try to keep my distance from these characters in traffic. If they really are too one-sided or too dumb (or deaf?) to keep their hands on the side where they belong when seated behind the wheel then I cannot fathom they will be able to react like the should if they have to. Time to curb that nasty habit ...

Nothing. They've already been examining that theory, bottle in hand ... and out the window went the brain. And no doubt these days the beer industry can do with a "stimulus" too, you know. Otherwise, agree with the rest of your post.

I've seen it too. I think it's either in "Honkers & shouters" by Arnold Shaw, or the sleeve notes to a compilation set of R&B records made in Nashville (which I haven't got - but I saved it on the computer but can't remember where). MG That wouldn't be the "A Shot in The Dark" Nashvile R&B set by Bear Family? The accompanying book is a fat one but I cannot recall that Etta James was featured there. Neither was she on the Nashville R&B vinyl comps on the Krazy Kat label IIRC.

I'm afraid neither Buchreitz nor me will understand ANY of that - nor will anybody else. Whereas Swedish/Danish/Norwegian are lumped together in MANY printed media, for example, in Scandinavia where readers' contributions come into play (as you undoubtedly know ...) . OK, just to round off the debate and get back to Lbuchreitz's latest post (this time in English so Chris will spare us an avalanche of Icelandic ): Of course I see your point and I agree. But neither will you get a totally realistic appraisal from any moderately sharp-witted collector either who would be interested in BUYING these records himself. If he is to pay the items FULL PRICE that's not exactly an incentive to buy because it is not really a good buy (much less a bargain) for him. In short, try to get an appraisal of the value from an impartial third party (if there is anybody like that). But moaning about the fact that dealers (and even the keener type of collector) will not provide you with the info that will enable you to push up the prices of the items that THEY might be interested in buying from you is just natural. It has always been like that and is something to be reckoned with at all times IMHO (in EVERY part of any market where the price is dictated by collectability criteria). Good luck!