Big Beat Steve

I don't know about Ireland, but from what I have read about what went on in 20s and 30s Continental Europe, the jazz-tinged "classical" or "serious" compositions (e.g. Ernst Krenek in Germany/France) were only a tiny minority of what could possibly have been lumped in under "jazz" by the non-discerning public and scribes (that went on to lambast jazz as being oh so vulgar and the downfall of society and its youth anyway). The majority of what was there really was "syncopated" dance music with a more or less evolved content of real jazz - a bit like what passed as jazz among 20s U.S. dance orchestras just because of the presence of a 12 or 16-bar hot solo in an otherwise staid orchestra. But since the boundaries to those bands, recordings or live appearances where the jazz content was higher were rather foggy, in the end you never know whether this or that public figure who publicly put down jazz had not actually been listening to some "real" jazz or swing. Depends on what your ears are attuned to (see below): (Translation:) "Modern dance music" (aka "swing") as seen ... ... by Swedish parliament representative who saw jazz music "fit only for hottentots but not for Swedish youth"... ... by normal people.

O.K., I did overlook THIS way of bringing in landlordism in the original source. As for the kind of jazz that ultra-conservatives would have disapproved of, hard to say what was the current state of awareness in Irleand in c.1934. At worst it could have been moderately "syncopated" dance band music, at best it could have been the efforts of Irish jazzmen to play their own brand of jazz (which, like the British variant, probably imitated the U.S. sources and had not yet found a real voice of its own, or would jazzed-up versions of "Irish washerwoman" have been considered as such? ) or, as you point out, teh visits of famous U.S. jazzmen (cf. the U.K. "Mainstream" press quotes to the Armstrong/Ellington tours of the early 30s in "Jazz in Britain 1910-1950"). Yet, upon re-reading the entire linked article, all these debates of 1934 do not strike me as THAT different from what happened in many ultra-conservative circles elsewhere in Europe in the 20s and 30s.

I still fail to see the DIRECT connection between this form of European sharecropping and the hatred directed against jazz as being oh so "immoral". Especially since jazz and its main ingredient - "da blooz" - was not exactly an elite thing but came from those parts of society that SUFFERED from the U.S. version of "landlordism" (a term that I find relatively self-explanatory, BTW, but maybe only to Europeans ).

Correct, Hot Ptah. I was indeed tempted to add that this practice made the task of discographers much easier. But in the case of Bob Wills session details were documented well enough. Not elsewhere, though, where Bob Wills' exhortations rubbed off on other Western Swing band leaders or vocalists. On "Pocahuntas Stomp" (Dude 1408) by Dub Adams & The K-Bar Ranch Hands, for example, the band leader/vocalist/announcer (?) goes out of his way in introducing the soloists; the steel guitar soloist is identified as "Roly Poly", the clarinetist is announced as "Brother Hal", and so on ... But to this day liner note scribes wonder who was hiding behind these monikers. As for "Bubbles In My Beer", you must be refering to the MGM recording. On his 1960 Liberty re-recording, Bob Wills goes one better and not only calls up Joe Holley to "Wake up over there, Jody, let's go here now" but keeps mocking vocalist Tommy Duncan at almost every second line: T.D.: "I know my life's been a failure..." - Bob: "Oh I wouldn't say that" T.D. "I see every road that I've travelled" - Bob: "Highway 66?" - whereupon Tommy Duncan has a hard time not breaking into laughter during his next line ... and so on ... A classic.

This may miss the point of THIS topic in the stricter sense of the word, but judging from the blasting that jazz received elsewhere throughout Europe in the 20s and early 30s, Ireland may have "lagged a bit behind" (elsewhere some advances had been accomplished by that time) but not THAT much. Germany (pre-nazi, of course) is just one example, and Jim Godbolt's "Jazz In Britain 1910-1950" quotes a number of infamous English sources from that period as well. Hilarious today, but certainly less funny then. And even countries where jazz had gotten an early foothold and had developed a thriving scene, e.g. Sweden, produced such nasty publications as "Jazzen Anfaller" ("Jazz Attacks") by one Erik Walles as late as 1946 which included "assertions" such as the following that were NOT meant to be merely folkloristic: "Jazz canot be understood without referring to important facts regarding its development. Jazz was created by negroes. Jazz was created by drunk negroes. Jazz was created by drunk negroes in brothels." So - no, the above Irish example does not strike me as particularly backwoodsy. although it really IS eerie to see the parallels between the Irish reference to teaching Irish dances instead of allowing people to dance to jazz and the situation in 30s (and especially Nazi) Germany where German folk and traditional dances of course were promoted as "clean" examples of dancing as opposed to the "lewdness" of dancing to jazz. It took a lot of public opinion makers quite a long time to see the light when it came to popular culture (and things repeated themselves with rock music later on, as if Western civilization was about to collapse each time), and unless I am very much mistaken, even the U.S. had their share of inveterate numbskulls (in influential positions, mind you) in that respect too.

Another oddity, not so much for the interjections but for the line-up credits: On "Windy City Boogie" recorded by the J.T. Brown band for the United label in July, 1951, various whoopings and hollers (including the inevitable "Mercy Mercy") can be heard throughout the tune. By whom? The line-up on the Delmark reissue indicates the presence of Roosevelt Sykes "playing" "ENCOURAGEMENT AND ZEST" (such are the instrument credits)! Now how do you play "zest"??

Another exhortation (that would also fit in here ... is on Wynonie Harris' 1947 recording of "Blow your Brains Out" where he introduces the tenor solo "... baby, time marches, ... now I want you to meet Tom Archia - march, Tom Archia!" whereupon Tom Archia blows the second tenor solo. BTW, Hal Singer, the other tenor man, is introduced as "Oklahoma". Both tenorists are called out several more times throughout the track. As for identifiying soloists in this manner, and assuming that WESTERN swing falls into the swing style of jazz (ain't it so, Mr Lowe? ), would ALL of Bob Wills' encouragements and "Yah-hah's" count too? (Would make a long list ...)

One of my favorites: At the end of the ultra-fast "Red Hot Blues" by the T.J. Fowler band (National 9072, recorded in 1948), after the band calls out a hoarse "One-Two-Three-Four-Five-Six-Seven-Eight-Nine-Ten-RED HOT!", a single voice (the band leader?) adds a dry, cool "THIS IS THE BLUES, BABY!". Yes ... they sure blew the cobwebs out of many of those so slow blues that according to many set the ONLY pace a blues tune is supposed to be played at.

I have the "Our Love Is Here To stay" Jubilee LP by the Gene Harris trio and somehow have always been under the impression that this was NOT the "Blue Note/Three Sounds" Gene Harris. Just checked the Bruyninckx discography on CD, and he confirms my impression.

If you can shoot it cheaply on ebay, get it. Those TREND books tend to be around so you just need to observe the market for a while and then ... click and snipe" It's a good read and it is intersting to be able to see the history up to that time (c.1955) the way it was seen THEN (and NOT with all too many interpretations cobbled up with the "benefit" of hindsight that too often makes too much use of "generally acquired wisdom" of what was supposed to be good and enduring and what not). Another interesting aspect is that a good deal of its pictures have not been seen elsewhere THAT often.

Like this?? http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/services/SYls3jUpdI3J0LCxsBG6Z17KELEeYXPiCsZbrxpDzkcM-/translation?wl_srclang=EN&wl_trglang=FR&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Forganissimo.org%2Fforum%2F&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.organissimo.org%2Fforum%2F Top section translated only as this online web site translator has a size limit. But this should do for a starter. One I like particularly is the "Appel brun de téléphone Clifford"!! And who is "L'écheveau Mobley"? Sorry, really sorry for the Off-Topic excursion ...

When are we going to see a thread under the title "ALBUM COVERS WITH MEN RIDING BIKES (NON-MOTORIZED)", I wonder?

Mega-seconded. Ultra-thirded. @Niko: Agreed. It DOES look like a tenor.

I clearly remember standing at a tramway station on my way home from a friend of my parents who'd helped me with my maths homework (I was 11 at the time) and reading the obit on Louis Armstrong in the newspaper display next to the waiting room beside the tracks. The name rang a bell as my parents (though totally disinclined jazz-wise) had 45s like his "Uncle Satchmo's Lullaby" and "What A Wonderful World" (what else, at that time, as a MOR buyer? ) that were spun occasionally, and I also remember my mother voicing her regret at his death. So it stuck in my kid's mind that somebody important had passed that day. It wasn't until a couple of years later (from the age of 14-15 when I began listening to jazz radio programs and buying records) that I really was able to CONSCIOUSLY cut my teeth into some more "meaty" works of his, and though I've never been that big an Armstrong fan I see him as a seminal person in every espect.

Above all he is/was a jazz scribe who became a prominent hate figure of the young music listeners' and budding musicians' generation of the 50s as he was given to ranting away against anything coming out of the skiffle/rock'n'roll corner and threatening the music "establishment". Described in detail in Pete Frame's book "The Restless Generation". Just goes to show how fast you can turn from a proponent of a minority music (that a scant two decades before had to fight for its own acceptance) into a "moldy fig" of the musical mainstream (relatively speaking ...).

Just out of sheer curiosity: What is the link between the Vocalion label linked above and the Vocalion label that does all the pre-WWII/early post-WWII British swing/jazz reissues (such as the ones shown below)?

The ENTIRE "Red Saunders Research Foundation" website that you picked this chapter from is a gem!!

Falls a bit short of making him a candidarte for the Darwin Award, but anyway ...

Judging by the pics, any vinyl that has been owned by these celebs must the thoroughly shot ... just seeing how they all seem to be intent on smudging/stamping the shiny playing surface with their grubby fingers ... :crazy:

Nice scoop! Congrats. Reminds me of a scoop of a somewhat less "stellar" quality (except to the diehard collectors ) I made on an internet site a couple of years ago. I had been looking for a copy of the Swedish book "GÖTEBORGSJAZZEN" with a personal history of Göteborg's post-war jazz scene, and sure enough I managed to grab one at a fairly good price (no other bidders). What a nice surprise to find out upon receipt that the book seems to have been carried along by a real fan who had the book signed by about a dozen or more local jazz greats on the very page where they figured in that book, including a few signatures by latterly quite renowned famous Swedish jazzmen. Couldn't have turned out better ...

Didn't vote (yet) but I am not a musician and I do dance (time and again). But only the jive that goes with a certain brand of swing, 40s/50s R&B and 50s rock'n'roll. Got into dancing kind of late and have recently gotten back into it after a couple years' hiatus and am enjoying it immensely (though I certainly am not the biggest jiver in the world) as this adds another dimension to enjoying your favorite music. Having a favorite dancing partner helps enormously, of course, as we are pretty well in tune with each other dancing-wise. Things tended to get out of control, though, once other ladies started dragging me onto the dance floor too (shortage of men, like everywhere, I guess ): As there are variations in the moves and dancing styles these excursions with others didn't go over quite as smoothly as with my #1 dancing partner, so it wasn't THAT much fun (neither for them nor for me), and I am not enough of a dancing pro to spontaneously anticipate everything somebody "moving to a different drummer" (beyond the beat, of course) might be up to ... But it's O.K. and fun anyway ...

As I've had problems with skipping on my Sony CD player too I am gettng ready to buy a new one before long. Now what I would like to know is this: My CD player has intermittently also been giving me problems with not recognizing CDs at all. I put in a quite normal music CD and it outputs "No CD" on the display, despite repeated trials. And on some other CDs (right from the time they were bought) it gives a hiss and fuzzy, distorted sound when playing the CD a if it was a CD-R that is breaking down and gradually becoming unplayable. Yet with both symtoms (not recognizing CDs and distorted play) the CDs in question play perfectly well on another (certainly NOT "upmarket") portable CD player that normally only serve as a backup unit for less demanding (party) use. Now how far down the line to total breakdown (beyond skipping) is my CD player when it shows these symptoms? Just wondering ...

What I hated much more was when I "won" an item at, say, 9.99 or possibly more and then, upon closer inspection of the cover, found that a price of some 50c or even 20c only was scribbled in a corner with felt marker. Which clearly showed the kind of money the seller shelled out at some garage sale prior to reselling it. :D Like somebody said on ebay: "Avoid the middleman"!