Big Beat Steve

@BillF: Sure, Bird towered high above the "rest" of most others but above the rest of many, many hack US jazzmen too. Anyway ... Greenberg, Theselius and Ericson cerainly weren't "relatively minor" players overall. Not any more minor than many UK jazzmen from the Club 11 and Ronnie Scott club stable of that time too anyway. Still these "minor" players all made their welcome contributions. And documented jazz ought to present the whole picture to the extent that it exists.

But Benedetti was an extreme case. Regrettably ...Solos without context are for geeks or maybe for extremely zealous musicologists but elsewhere ...? I have a Storyville LP pressing of the concert and jam session recordings Bird made during his tour in Sweden in 1950. It wasn't edited THAT heavily but anoyingly anyway I am no sure if I am to consider this a favor for the listener or an insult, but liner notes scribe Lars Werner (a musician himself, and not the least figure in Swedish jazz of the 60s) explicitly stated that he cut out all the piano solos - by Gösta Theselius - no less (allegedly because the piano was too poorly recorded), and in "Body and Soul" he cut out solos by Rowland Greenberg (tp), Gösta Theselius (ts) - who certainly were no slouches either - and Lennart Nilsson (p). And besides Nilsson, Rolf Ericson (tp) had his solo cut out from "fine and Dandy" too. OTOH the INTERACTION between Bird and all these musicians would have been fascinating too (particularly considering the contemporary jazz paper reports of the jam sessions and how they propelled all the participants to creative heights in the company of Bird). Not a very satisfactory approach, particularly since the original recordings DID included everthing as it seems ... Even Bird idolatry can go too far ...

Anson Weeks' singer?

The Horst Jankowski jazz records to go for are his EPs for Brunswick (1957) and Telefunken (1958) (chamber jazz with classically influenced overtones, though not excessively so), his EP "Jazzing in Stuttgart" on Manhattan (1957, also issued as "Jazztime Stuttgart" on the Bertelsmann record club label) and his 1961 "Gäste bei Horst Jankowski" (Guests at Horst Jankowski's) LP on Metronome (never mind what Bruyninckx says - the LP was not on the Saba latter-day cult label but on Metronome). "Gäste" is more modernistic - with shades of late 50s Basie and "Euro hard bop". A cult LP around here as one of the tracks (his version of Basie's "Cute") for a long time was the signature tune of a radio jazz show here. The Telefunken EP was reissued (along with EPs by Fatty George and Michael Naura) on a Telefunken LP you sometimes still can find at a good price in the secondhand jazz bins: "Jazz in Deutschland 1957/58 - Kühl und Modern" (as some may have guessed there was a "Hot" volume featuring Dixieland bands from the same period too). Strangely enough I had never been able to find a copy of these in the record shops after those reissues came out in 1976 so had to buy my copies several years later secondhand in those pre-internet days. Another one to go for, maybe, is the "Tony Scott & Horst Jankowski Trio In Concert" CD released many moons ago on the (Dutch) Point label. It features concert recordings from teh festival in Ljubljana (Yougoslavia) in May. 1957. I made a point of rounding up those early LPs and EPs (it took me a LONG time to find a copy of the "Gäste" LP after I had finally heard it at a neighbor's home in the early 80s, and then, of course, as was bound to happen, a second copy ended up with me not soon after I had found the fiist after some 15 years' searching ) but was never moved overly by all his Saba/MPS/Mercury "Black Forest", "Sleigh Ride" et al. records, on the one hand because they had been doodled and noodled to death as MOR background mood music on the radio in the 70s (when I started getting into jazz) and has soundwise connotations for me that just do not quite suit me. On other hand because those "later" Jankowski LPs for the very most part are priced in silly regions considering what they are and that they are not that rare in secondhand shops (so there still must be a market for them - probably "cult" records to some). I have kept half an eye on the Jankowskinetic LP, however, but am not pressed and therefore waiting for one to come up at a "steal" price.

Nice LP, nice and thoughtful way to fill a gap (for those interested in such details, the cover artwork duplicates that of the original Carisch EPs). I was pleased to see LP it in the shop at the time and of course immediately picked it up. But you might get some crossfire here from certain forumists who'd sniff at this label (connected to the Official label known for its plentiful R&B reissues) as it was a somewhat "grey area". (Well, in fact at least in this case they resurrected an item that had fallen into disuse. Carisch at the time picked up this session recorded by Gigi Campi for his own MOD label, but as the label folded the items were "orphaned" and ended up briefly at Carisch but never got wider circulation. )

So this is Rostasi the forum member, then?

If he signed it like this then that was a FAKE!

My fault actually. I had meant to link to another (fairly recent) DB Record Reviews topic here on Organissimo (one where you posted too IIRC). Re- the publisher of the Bielefelder Jazz Katalog, "Motor Presse" were the third publisher (at least). In 1981 it was a publisher in Nuremberg.

The facsimile reissues of the original Aladdin LPs (LP801 and 802) that were reissued by Pathé MArconi (EMI) in the mid-80s were very nicely done, sounded fine and kept that inimitable "period" touch.

Manfred Scheffner was a key figure at the Beck jazz department in Munich but Beck wasn't the publisher of the "Bielefelder Jazz Katalog" (for non-Germans: This was/Is OUR better-sorted "Schwann" or "Jazz'N Pops" ). The publisher changed several times and the catalog has been online for a couple of years now according to a Google search I just did. These catalogs are an excellent refernce tool, particularly once they introduced the three different indexes you mentioned (this started with the 1974/75 edition - previous editions were strictly by artist A-Z and then some subcategories in the Various Artist section). The 1975/76 edition was the first one I bought (new, when I started buying and collecting records) and along with the 1960/61 edition (the second one ever published) that my mother passed on to me at the time this was a priceless source of information in my early days of discophile. I bought subsequent editions every couple of years to to 1994, and though the catalog never was 100% complete (some distributors or companies just could not be bothered to supply their release lists each year) these older editions never date and still are very handy even after all these years to check up on reissues from a certain period (half for the fun of it and half for reference reasons I actually bought about two thirds of the 1959/60 to 1973/74 editions later on too). Of course in the time of Discogs etc. they have become less essential but they still serve their purpose. As for your latest post (my, this topic sure is getting out of hand! ), re- the DB Record Reviews yearbooks, this thread should cover that particular sub-topic with all the essentials:

The two Jazz Lab volumes not listed on Discogs are: - Vol. 2 - Ralph Burns Orchestra (MCA 6.22173 AK) - originally released as "Jazz Studio Five" - Vol 10 - Chico Hamilton Quintet (MCA 6.21808 AK) - originally soundtrack music from "Sweet Smell of Success" (Search me why these numbers preceded the numbering of Vol. 1 and the rest )

Thanks, James, that sheds some useful light on it all.

Re- Nellie, I'd just as much hail the appearance of bro' JOE Lutcher. Nice set indeed - a lot is and sounds familiar, but quite a few aren't. And he did indeed dig deep. Regardless of all the "grey market" CDs that flooded the reissue scene in the late 90s and early 2000s ("Stompin'", anyone?) and the not quite so grey-marketish on Blue Moon and Classics, for example, this shows that you can dig even deeper and find there still is a LOT of never-reissued R&B out there. And you're not scraping the barrel yet.

That's not the 40s (and the time frame of this topic ) anymore, but never mind ... . This 2-LP set , however, is a sampler/compilation of the Jazztime USA recordings (a nice one indeed as I found out again when I spun it again the other day). I'd rather advise to go for the three individual Vols. 1, 2 and 3 that were released on Coral at the time. Vol. 2 was reissued as Vol. 13 of the "Jazz Lab" LP series on German MCA in the mid-70s (the series with the silly generic laboratory flasks on the front cover - no doubt you will remember them if you've been 'round the block long enough ). I never checked the available reissues of the others as I had found originals of all three "Jazztime USA" 12in LPs without much difficulty. Before those 12in LPs, two 10in LPs and a 45 with part of that material had been issued (on German Coral, for example). The compilation you showed still serves its purpose, though, as it includes 5 tracks (if I compared correctly) that are not on the 3 individual LPs of "Jazztime USA" released in the 50s.

I have the Blue Note, Prestige and Eurojazz ("Catalogue of Jazz Disc in Europe") volumes - from the Jazz Critique issues - of this series (bought them new by mail order when "Jazz is Beck" in Munich stocked them in the mid-90s). I would have bought the West Coast Jazz book too but they did not have that one and I did not even know about it at that time. (I see that you bought at least one of them from Beck too but IIRC my copies did not cost 60 DM each) I bought them mainly as discographical reference books (cannot read Japanese either, of course) with some added direct reference to the covers (the minuscule size of the artwork gives you only a rough idea anyway). Even without the main text they do come in handy and I find I pull out the Prestige and Eurojazz books relatively often.

Yes, lack of imagination and/or background knowledge (including - as you say - awareness of avilable resources). The slack I'd cut them is because this overall is one of the not sooo huge problems with visualizing the text of such documentaries. And haven't those hacks compiling the accompanying material for music documentaries been shown by the music industry itself that it all doesn't matter THAT much? As you may have noticed one of my pet peeves is the total mismatch between the date/era of the photo of the featured artist on the cover and the recording period of the music on the disc. The 70s/80s were bad in this way but even some recent reissues blundered badly in that respect. OTOH, look at how often it hapens in documentaries that they talk about some event that happened in the 30s or war years and then you see some coarse-grained "moving images" with Tin Lizzies cajoling through the streets. This is something I personally find even more aggravating. And no, when they talk about 40s amateur nights at the Apollo I do NOT want to see a pic of the outside of the Apollo with loads of garish, angular 70s US hulks of iron parked at the curb! Ruins the visual impact ... . Same complaint like yours, just different accents ...) And so on and so on ... But like you said, considering the intended audience this probably doesn't matter - except to history detail-minded geeks like they are around here.

Totally agreed. This sort of inaccuracies in these documentaries happens too often. And you are spot on that getting it right cannot be that much harder. I'd just cut them a bit of slack with the mismatch of text and images: A lot of these mismatches no doubt IS sloppiness or carelessness but could it be that they did not have any good images or footage to go EXACTLY with what they were talking about at that very moment? I also wonder (though I do not know abouot the legal side) if maybe in some cases copyright reasons have an impact on the use of certain images, e.g. if the estates of the photographers want BIG money for the use of one of their stills for a couple of seconds?

Roy Byrd has been served well with vinyl reissues (including a nicely done Bear Family twofer focusing specifically on the Mercury label recordings from New Orleans) and I have what I need of his earlier recordings. IIRC quite a few of the Helen Humes tracks listed are on various reissue LPs from the Mr R&B stable. I did notice the presence of Dinah Washington on the black "Story" box I own but mistakenly had been under the impression there was a lot more by her on the radio box.

Ha, Captain (thanks BTW for ging to the trouble of placing the track listing here), so I was right abut the major names but wrong about Dinah Washington. I see I did well not to have bought the radio box, then, as several of those artists had been served with accessible reissues before (of which I did have quite a handful so duplications would have been enormous and I cannot see one single artist there I'd place on a "completist" list - with the possible exception of Jay McShann). You're welcome from this side too, Tom.

It would help if you'd describe a bit more exactly which box set you are referring to. There were two in the 90s - one in a longish/rectangular black box with gold lining and another one with a box (plastic IIRC) somewhat in the shape of a 40s bakelite radio. The latter one made the headlines due to its optics but I felt it was a bit heavy on the obvious, major names (such as Dinah Washington). I bought the other (rectangular) one new at the time as it seemed to offer a wider variety of artists but I never got around to comparing the track listings with those of the "radio" set. There was quite a bit of overlap but I don't remember the details. I haven't listened to a lot of my box in quite a qwhile but do like it and would not part with it, but then 40s and early 50s R&B has a special place in my collection. The set is varied enough - from straight bluies to combo and big band (Johnny Otis. Buddy Johnson) R&B, but quite a bit of it has been reissued elsewhere too. So it all depends on what else you have and how far your interest goes. So do check the track listings beforehand and compare them with what you have already. As a taster it isn't bad at all IMO, though.

I used to go there a couple of times during my visits to London throughout the 90s too but was sort of unimpressed/disappointed. It may have been a good place for Japanese imports (which were out of my monetary range for the most part anyway) but I found them rather weak in what they stocked (or, rather, did not) outside the major labels. Even in the first half of the 90s when vinyl was still around their range of smaller collector's labels (of which the UK abounded) covering jazz styles OLDER than hard bop wasn't that impressive, at least for my tastes. And strangely enough items on Charly, Ace, Affinity etc. often were more expensive than at specialist shops up in Camden Town or at Mole Jazz.

I'd tend towards the Second Herd too. But this is a band where I find it hard to take a decision between the Band that plays the blues, First and Second (and possibly Third) Herd. And I'd leave in the novelty vocals. They are part of the band into the context of its time. I'd rather skip Woody Herman's attempts at being a ballad singer in his earlier bands (little wonder that for a long time you'd see them reissued only on those "In disco order" LPs).

Corner, you ought to have quoted BillF and not me. It was HIS post you are referring to.

My mistake, sorry. He certainly WAS a character, and his radio shows spinning all that 20s and 30s or 40s dance bands, singers and semi-jazz (but often outright jazz too) made you aware of a lot of artists that you had never heard of before and later knew better where to place them when you came across them in the record stalls. Budding collectors learnt a lot there. Only his "Frenchized" pronounciation of those U.S. artists' names sometimes was a tough nut to crack (particularly at his talking speed ). It took me a while to figure out, for example, that that "Abbé Le Mans" band leader he was talking about actually was Abe Lyman! Same here. Even in the 70s and 80s this WAS an issue, particularly if you tried to catch relatively far away stations on AM and long wave radio that had interesting music shows. Made me quite tolerant of the fidelity of not quite so pristine 78s.

I am perfectly well aware of the difference between fake bidders bidding to net the seller more money and the scenario that you and I described. I described it as ANOTHER reason (i.e. a reason different from shill bidding) why some bids may have gotten out of hand, particularly in the earlier days of eBay. And the risk of accidentally winning an auction at what you yourself normally would not be willing to pay and would not be able to afford in the long run of course was very real. I do not really remember and did not keep track of how far the other bidders went when they raised that "deep pocket" bidder but his winning bids always WERE high. And I do remember that when I tried it myself (because I had been irked a number of times too when I saw that character's name as the starting bidder and realized that "there goes your chance of winning THAT auction too") I cautiously went in $10 instalments and found that even at something like $40 or 50 for a simple (and not exceedingly rare) 50s US car magazine I incredibly enough had not had the leading bid yet. But of course I had taken a look at his bidding history on a number of similar previous auctions. In those days, with actual bidders' names being displayed, things were VERY transparent.