Cliff Englewood

I was going to post this exact question, but you beat me to it, Bentsy. Any theories on what's happening over there? Off the top of my head, very old squad, new coach Leonardo doesn't seem to be having any impact, that's the 3rd game in a row that they haven't scored in and they also drew against 2 sides promoted to Serie A this season. Other than that though they're fine. :tophat:

I was a bit unclear about this and I apolgize. When he authoritatively says, for example, that Paul is the guitar soloist on "Taxman", rather than George, as always assumed, I take him at his word. It's when he himself goes against those log sheets (my example of "We Can Work It Out" where the log sheets say George played tambourine but no it must be Ringo because Ringo played a similar rhythm elsewhere therefore George does not play on WCWIO, which he asserts several times on minimal aural evidence) without providing terribly persuasive evidence that I raise my eyebrows. Like I said, minor quibble. Yes I know what you mean but as I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, I get the impression that he doesn't really rate George's overall contribution that highly, with the exception of a few songs, either because he wasn't up to the standard of John or Paul, which is a slightly unfair way to judge anybody, let's face it, very few people were. Or because George seemed to be the first one to tire of being a Beatle and maybe he feels George was just coasting during the last few years??? I agree though that it is unwise of him to say he's not on it if he's not sure, it's just he seems so meticulous about every other detail I wouldn't like to second guess him. Although I did think his "review" of Harrison's "ForYou Blue" was kinda like the reviews Spinal Tap got, "Dedicated to Patti Harrison, this forgettable twelve-bar in D was taped in six takes between work on "Two Of Us" and "Let It Be". "Shark Sandwich", Shit Sandwich. In the "Recommended Further Reading" section at the back of "Revolution" he praises "Shout" by Philip Norman as "the sharpest account of the career of the Beatles", anybody read that one?, I have it but probably won't get around to it for a while. I read a review of this today in a music mag. and it sounds very interesting; You Never Give Me Your Money: The Battle for the Soul of the Beatles. Blurb from Amazon; Review `An enthralling new book on the group.' --The Independent Product Description When Paul McCartney told the world in 1970 that he had no plans to work with the Beatles again, it was widely viewed as a cultural tragedy by the media and public alike. His statement not only marked the end of the band's remarkable career, but also seemed to signal the demise of an era of unprecedented optimism in cultural history. But posterity would not let go of the group so easily and one of the most fascinating phases of the Beatle's story was just about to begin. For almost 40 years the four members of the group, their families and business partners, have been forced to live with the reverberations of their incredible success. Now, for the first time, "You Never Give Me Your Money" tells the dramatic story of the personal and business rivalry that has dominated the Beatles' lives since 1969. It charts the almost Shakespearian rivalry of the Lennon and McCartney families, the conflict in George Harrison's life between spirituality and fame, and Richard Starkey's efforts to escape the alcoholism that threatened to kill him. It documents the shifting relationships between the four as they strive to establish their identities beyond the Beatles and it chronicles the transformation of their multi-media company, Apple Corps, from a bastion of 1960s counter-culture into a corporate behemoth. The best of rock'n'roll writers, Peter Doggett gives us a compelling human drama and the equally rich and absorbing story of the Beatles' creative and financial empire, set up to safeguard their interests but destined to control their lives. From tragedy to triumphant reunion, and court battles to chart success, "You Never Give Me Your Money" traces the untold story of a group and a legacy that will never be forgotten. About the Author Peter Doggett has been writing about popular music, the entertainment industry and social and cultural history since 1980. A regular contributor to Mojo, Q and GQ, his books include The Art and Music of John Lennon; a volume detailing the creation of the Beatles' Let It Be and Abbey Road albums; the pioneering study of the collision between rock and country music, Are You Ready for the Country? and, most recently, There's a Riot Going On: Revolutionaries, Rock Stars and the Rise and Fall of 60s Counter-culture. It doesn't seem to be on Amazon.com yet just .co.uk. but if I see it in the shops here I think I'll have to spring for it. Also, this one could be pretty good too. The Longest Cocktail Party: An Insider's Diary of the Beatles, Their Million-dollar Apple Empire and Its Wild Rise and Fall. Blurb from Amazon; Review "Marvellous. If you want to know what Apple was like, this is the book." Alastair Taylor, former General Manager, Apple; "Incisive, evocative and hilariously funny. The Beatles are shadowy figures, but this is a fine view of rock's most inspired folly." Mojo; "Vivid... it views the band's disintegration with the same excluded bafflement with which Stoppard's Rosencrantz and Guildenstern follow the plots of the Danish court." Guardian" Product Description When American teenager, Richard DiLello, wandered into the Beatles' Apple building in 1968, he was immediately appointed 'house hippie'; he began making tea, rolling joints and listening to dozens of demo tapes. By the time Apple crumbled a few years later he was director of public relations. Along the way he noted many of the stoned conversations he heard and the insane bits of business he witnessed: one-man bands auditioning in the reception, Hell's Angels taking over Savile Row and The Beatles playing on the roof. Full of period detail, The Longest Cocktail Party is fast-paced, witty and immensely poignant about the demise of the Fab Four and the death of the '60s dream.

I got this one, I haven't listened to it yet but the packaging is very basic, similar in a way to the Proper boxes ie the cds are in cardboard sleeves. The booklet contains all the notes that were in the original, (I think so anyway), but for this price it can't be beat really. I don't download things myself but I doubt you could download all this music as cheaply, 230 tracks for around €25 - €30, if the future is cheaper packaging, I'm all for the future.

Or maybe we could have posters create a complicated formula to police themselves so that they don't feel the need to post each and every though that enters their head??? Hey sounds great! Let's start with you! Zing!!!, wow, you really got to the core of all my posts with that one. Great to see you still take such an objective view of things here. :tup

Or maybe we could have posters create a complicated formula to police themselves so that they don't feel the need to post each and every though that enters their head???

Ouch. :tophat: 77, dat's-gotta-hoirt.

What's happened to everyone, no one seems to have any form at the moment, Man U were quite lucky last night, at least with the free kick which got them back in the game. Chelski - Liverpool at the weekend should be good as both Benitez and Ancelotti went nuts at the players after their performances mid-week. Carlo Ancelotti vents fury at 'lucky' Chelsea The night feeble Liverpool left Rafael Benítez fuming in Florence 'We've never seen manager more annoyed,' says Fábio Aurélio. :unsure: Oh yeah, I ment to add, is Ryan Giggs actually Dorian Gray???

I think the problem is if you like music, any type of music, it's very easy to go from enjoying a particular artist to almost OCD levels of having to get everything they were ever on. It's probably easiest to slip into it with Jazz though. I have started to realise this recently myself and come to the conclusion I have too much of everything!!! As much as I love listening to music if I went at it 8 hours a day for the rest of my life i'm still going to be neglecting some of the stuff I have. But in general I would say 1950's Hard Bop, a lot of it.

A prime contender for "inane post of the year". Do you mean from that particular poster or in general? if it's the former there's a lot of competition for that. You can send Cindy your best wishes or just say thanks by sending an e-mail to csr@mosaicrecords.com and just put "FAO Cindy Wilson.‏" in the subject line.

I think the main reason you have go with what he says about who is on what is that he had access to the original masters and therefore I presume all the log sheets etc, etc and as it was old school EMI type boffins I would presume thay had to do everything prim and proper and by the book, although maybe a lot of that went out the window in the later stages. I always thought it was Paul on "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)" as well though, class bit of goonery, or should that be Goon-ery, when you're in the mood for it.

I'd have no interest in taking up anything with you via PM, it's not that important. Yea, you're entitled to your opinions alright, it just seems to me that via those opinions, you try too hard to be exactly like the thing you accuse Macdonald of being. Not just in this thread obviously and maybe pretentious and silly aren't the best words to describe your bon mots but considering the fact you clearly like to photograhph yourself indoors, in the dark, while wearing sunglasses, perhaps they're not all that inaccurate after all. Maybe take the sunglasses off next time you read the book???, and just as an FYI, it doesn't make you look any younger.

Good game for the Gunners amazing that the score was as low as it was given their total dominance. Mannone had so little to do but was surefooted in goal. I wonder if Almunia is getting worried. That's pretty much what the Gunners problem has been for the last few years, loads of flash but they don't kill off games and as a result they get beaten by the better teams, eg last season against Liverpool at Anfield, if you score 4 away from home you really should win the game. I think Almunia is a major accident waithing to happen, he will be in goal for them in a big game this season and will make a big boo boo.

Fergie is funny sometimes... Fergie urges Evans to pop question

Hey, I don't mind if they send me money but unfortunately there was never a threepence, not in my day anyway but there was a twopence or tuppence piece before the Euro fucked everything up. You have the right attitude/approach to the book before you start though, needlees to say, to steal a well worn line, you'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll think it was better than "Cats", 2 thumbs up, you'll read it again. :D

I would think that sweeping and pretentious would accurately describe someone saying a book he has not read completely has bold assumptions that are neither factual nor accurate. It also implies, without the benefit of explaining why, that you somehow know better than the author of a book that, in pretty much every review of it that I have read, has been described as a definitive work on both the Beatles and the Sixties in general. And I certainly don't think pointing this out could be described as venom, unless of course you're very sensitive that is. I don't have any animosity towards you, in fact I would be fairly indifferent to you, I just think you're a bit silly By not reading it fully and by taking one paragraph out of context you do the book, and anyone thinking about getting it, a great disservice. The final paragraph you refer to is below and I would think it is pretty obvious even without the benefit of the rest of the description of the song, never mind the rest of the book, that he is not saying that the song itself changed anything but the "movement" that song was celebrating changed things. The word "the" was also in italics not caps. "Enthusiastically received in campus and underground circles, come together is the key song of the turn of the decade, isolating a pivotal moment when the free world's coming generation rejected established wisdom, knowledge, ethics, and behaviour for a drug-inspired relativism which has since undermined the intellectual foundations of western culture."

I think that what became the Modern Jazz Quartet was the Milt Jackson Quartet first. If I remember the interview correctly, Clarke said one of the main reasons he left the band was when Lewis told him that the manager that (I think)Lewis appointed, Monte Kay, would be getting an equal share of what they were making, ie 20%. Clarke felt no manager deserves 20% of a band's income but Lewis told him that the deal had been done. He also said that after their first tour the music changed completely, to where they were playing eighteenth-century drawing-room jazz, as Clarke put it, almost exclusively. He said Lewis told him this was the best way to make money but Clarke told him although he wanted to make money he was afraid he wouldn't be able to play his own style after playing the MJQ way for 4 or 5 years. Also he said Lewis told him that even though Clarke and Bags were writers Lewis would be doing pretty much all of the writing as he was their musical director. I just feel that what the MJQ became was almost like one of those pre-fabricated pop groups from a TV talent show. I like some of the very early stuff that I've heard but I guess I just don't dig them after that.

Had a feeling you'd say something like too. Well if not for me then, please enlighten the other members of the Board as to where Macdonald went wrong, or maybe try reading the whole book first before you make such vague and pretentious sweeping statements.

They needed more than Torres magic, they needed the whole fucking Harry Potter school. They were played off the park in the first half, the game was pretty much over after the second goal. It was for me anyway as I watched more of "Deadliest Catch" than I did the second half. Aurelio is good but he is not a midfielder. I saw Fiorentina play in the qualifiers and Jovetic was their best player then, he was excellent tonight.

I had a feeling you'd say something like that about "Revolution in the Head." Pray tell which of the assumptions are bold and which are irrelevant and inaccurate.

Well if you had read post 549 of this thread you would have learned it a bit earlier. :D

I think what really turns me off about he MJQ is that there always seemed to be a sort of hidden agenda to make "respectable, jazz you could take home to mother" type of music, and then an attitude of "well, this is actually how jazz should be played", it's all just too poilte. I'd have no problem believing the sales of 10,000 copies of any MJQ LP in the UK, as it always struck that they made jazz for people who don't really like jazz, you know, dinner party music. I remember reading an interview somewhere with Kenny Clarke where he said the gist of why he left the group was that it was really more of a business than a band.

Brookmeyer set is on hold.

Replied to your PM.

Up for addition.

Is it a cross or is it a shot???