Jackie McLean, Prestige Recordings

[Guy Berger]

I don't have any of Jackie Mclean's Prestige recordings. (Other than his sideman appearances on Miles Davis's Dig and Gene Ammons's The Happy Blues.) Anybody want to mention their favorites and maybe short descriptions? How do these compare to Jackie's early Blue Note albums?

Guy

[B. Goren.]

Some of his Prestige recordings are very good. I recommens specially *4, 5 and 6*

and *A Long Drink of the Blues*.

[Larry Kart]

This is a different Jackie than the early Blue Note McLean -- more acidic in tone, more awkward or laborious in phrasing (but expressively so), and probably more than a little strung out at times, but that's part of the story. Besides, it was this version of McLean that first grabbed me by the lapels and set the stage for his eventual dramatic BN re-emergence, because by then a fair number of us thought that we might never hear from him again.

My favorite Prestige is "Jackie McLean and Co." -- with Bill Hardman, Ray Draper, Mal Waldron, Doug Watkins, and Art Taylor. Every track works, but the early McLean performances par excellence IMO are the slow minor blues "Help," where Jackie's solo sounds like a literal cry for...., and "Beau Jack," where he begins by worrying a single jagged phrase almost to a point beyond what seems imaginable or even bearable -- but then from the point of view of what's being expressed, that's the point. Another very good album is the somewhat earlier "Lights Out" -- with Donald Byrd, Elmo Hope, Watkins, and Taylor -- especially the title track, before which the lights were dimmed in the studio to enhance the mood.

[Larry Kart]

P.S. It probably was the cover photo of "Jackie McLean and Co." more than anything else that led some to wonder about McLean's racial background.

[Pete C]

I don't think any of McLean's Prestige albums compare with the Blue Notes, and I think most can be ignored unless you're a completist. I like Jackie's playing on all of the Ammons jam session albums though, and those are so much fun.

[B. Goren.]

I don't think any of McLean's Prestige albums compare with the Blue Notes, and I think most can be ignored unless you're a completist. I like Jackie's playing on all of the Ammons jam session albums though, and those are so much fun.

Pete,

What about his recordings for SteepleChase???

[bertrand]

I'll second the Jackie McLean and Co. - I love the first three tracks with the tuba, they have a mysterious, eerie sound that reminds me of a spy movie soundtrack.

Larry Young also liked this record - he covered 'Flickers' (mistitled as 'Minor Dream') on Young Blues, and 'Help!' on Jimmy Forrest's Forrest Fire.

I also like Strange Blues a lot.

All of his 9 albums as a leader on Prestige are, at the minimum, very good.

Bertrand.

[brownie]

I have to admit that I prefer the Blue Notes but I got started on Jackie McLean with his Prestige/New Jazz albums which were available several years ahead of the BNs.

A personal favorite is 'Lights Out' which was the very first McLean I heard.

The Prestige McLeans may be a bit rough, his sound may be a bit astringent to some ears but there's plenty there to make younger listeners happy!

There are even several great moments. McLean's treatment of ballads ('Gone With the Wind on the McLean's Scene release, 'What's New' on the Strange Blues release, 'Easy Living' on the Alto Madness release and side B of the A Long Drink of the Blues LP with 'Embraceable You', 'I Cover the Waterfront' and 'These Foolish Things' deserve a reevaluation). And that 'Minor Dream' on the McLean & Co LP is a haunting tune that also needs to be rediscovered.

The various albums also enable to listen to some of the then-young players like Elmo Hope, Hank Mobley, Gil Coggins, Wade Legge and Ray Draper, among others. 16-year old tuba player Draper was even younger than Lee Morgan when they started making records! And he paired not only with McLean but with John Coltrane. Not their very best records but all highly enjoyable!

[MartyJazz]

IMO, the best Jackie on Prestige is a date wherein he is a sideman, a true desert island disc: LIVE AT THE CAFE BOHEMIA, led by George Wallington. The charts are first rate and with McLean and Donald Byrd in the front line and P.C. and Art Taylor anchoring the rhythm section, it's a joy to listen to from start to finish.

[Claude]

I have the same opinion as Pete.

I have heard all of the Prestige albums (downloaded them from emusic.com) but none of them come close to the Blue Note sessions. I even prefer the sub-par "Tippin the scales" to the Prestige sessions.

Jackie McLean's alto sound wasn't as individual then and the music much less adventurous.

[JSngry]

I think all of Jackie McLean's music is worth checking out, from the earliest to the latest. Like Larry says/implies, it's all part of the story. We might all have our favorite chapters out of a book, but who just reads those and not the others?

[jazzbo]

I agree that all Jackie's music is worth reviewing, and I really like the Prestige sides a lot. . . . As sideman as well as leader.

A Long Drink of the Blues is a favorite, and I like Strange Blues as well, and. . .well I don't really ahve a favorite.

[couw]

it all depends on the book you're reading I think. If it's titled "Jackie Mackie," then by all means, the Prestige stuff belongs there. If, however, your interest is more in the book called "jazz," then I am afraid Jackie's Prestige chapters are only of marginal interest, and one or two sips will suffice to know where McLean came from and what was there that lead to the much more important BN output.

Like everything else, it's all a matter of scale and perspective.

[jazzbo]

Or it depends how you value the BN output. . . I see it as a progression from his earlier years and not necessarily as the best thing since sliced bread (I'm not the biggest fan of the quintet with Monchur for example, and don't think it is Blue Note at its best---it's just my personal opinion, but it colors how I view the Prestige v. Blue Note issue).

[JSngry]

I can't imagine anybody who loves the BN stuff not being, at the very least, intrigued by the Prestige dates. They're certainly not as mature or fully realized as the BNs, for the most part, but there's more than a little meat to be had, even if it is raw and bloody (and some meat is good that way, if you know what I mean).

To overlook or disparage this material is perhaps to miss "the point" of the BN output entirely. Suitable for a Readers Digest Condensed Jazz Appriciation Course For People Who Don't Think They Have Time Or Interest, but not much else. If you're into that type of thing, good. I'm not.

That's just my opinion, but it's right.

[Larry Kart]

Don't want to get ponderous about this, but perhaps a la what Jim .

[Larry Kart]

Oops -- pressed the wrong key. What I started to say, was: Don't want to get ponderous about this, but perhaps a la what Jim S. said, Prestige Jackie/Blue Note Jackie presents in especially stark form the autobiographical/personal historical factor in jazz -- both in playing it and listening to it. As I mentioned above, when I first heard the Prestige/New Jazz Jackie back in 1956, that was virtually all the Jackie there was, and that music leapt out of the speakers and grabbed me (and a lot of other people too) right by the throat. It was one of the REALEST damn things I'd ever heard, and emotional realism/truthtelling was one of the things I was hungry for in music and everywhere else I could find it (this was the mid-'50s after all) -- again, I'm pretty sure, like a lot of other listeners. The force and weight of Jackie's testimony of that time will never leave me (it sure didn't/couldn't leave him; he was living it!), and I believe it easily can be heard in his music of that time even if you you weren't around to hear it back then -- the whole context is built right into it. More than that, the fact of the Prestige Jackie, plus the fact of his then dropping off the scene, was a crucial part of the context for the early Blue Note Jackie -- for the joy and relative health/strength/ease of "Swing, Swang, Swingin'" and then for the conceptual breakthrough of "New Soil." Again, all of this is built into the music IMO, though I admit that Jackie is a pretty extreme case of this sort of thing.

[couw]

intrigued, yes of course, but not to the point that I would start spending all my pocket money on it. There is far more intruigig stuff to be had. It is easy to like it all and play it all and to see merit in it all, it's when asked to prioritise or relativate that the problem begins. I did not say I would throw all the Prestige stuff out (did anyone on this thread?), but to me it serves more as a background to the to me far more interesting BN output than that it survives on its own merits when compared to other stuff of the time. It does well in that department as well, but not good enough to start throwing other stuff out to make room on the shelves for them.

and of course that's only my opinion but is much righter...

oh, and indeed his BN output is probably not the best thing since sliced bread, but as it seems, many view it as a more important piece of the jazz history puzzle than the Prestige stuff. I think it not a bad thing to leave the personal tastes behind sometimes and try and objectify it all a bit (only to dive headfirst into the self satisfaction of personal taste with more vigour for sure...)

[Larry Kart]

Couw -- By and large I prefer the BN Jackie too; he'd grown, he'd learned, he was to some extent a different man, a better player. But he also was the same man, and the way the music tells the story of how he'd come to be the same but different is far from the least interesting story that music has to tell.

[Pete C]

I DO consider the 3 Blue Note dates with Moncur to be among the true treasures of recorded jazz, gems of complex & sophisticated, yet accessible, compositionally oriented small group jazz.

I'm not familiar enough with Jackie's Steeplechase output to make any informed comment.

[B. Goren.]

I DO consider the 3 Blue Note dates with Moncur to be among the true treasures of recorded jazz.

I have to agree.

[sjarrell]

I don't know if I missed this in anyone else's reply Re: Prestige stuff, but emusic has all of the McLeans from that period. A low-risk, inexpensive way to get 'em all.

Later: Aha. Should've read Claude's post. Oh well...

Edited May 30, 2004 by sjarrell

[jazzbo]

Yes, but I don't see you leaving personal taste behind in saying that the Prestige aren't that important, I see your personal taste wrapped up in that! Personal taste almost always colors what one considers important in the world of arts (and elsewhere).

Never mind. I have never been a fan of Moncur and I don't see in those McLean sides what some others see, that they are sophisticated, etc. And I really like some of the Prestige material more than those particular Blue Notes.

Edited May 30, 2004 by jazzbo

[B. Goren.]

I have never been a fan of Moncur ...

Jazzbo,

This is a little bit off topic but have you listened to Moncur BN recordings on Mosaic Select???

[Simon Weil]

It does strike me as kind of illogical to say that Mclean's BN recordings are "important" or "classic" or whatever and then knock the Prestige ones out as not worth listening too, or whatever. I mean, clearly one will value the early recordings differently according to taste - but making the BN ones part of some sort of canon of "Jazz that matters" means that "serious listeners" are going to have to want to check out the earlier recordings in at least some detail.

Jackie McLean is one of those people I don't know so well - so I have no view vis a vis the value of the earlier recordings.

Still, there's some fudgy thinking going on here.

Simon Weil