Could this be the fate of the new BNBB?

[Use3D]

You wanna talk about being subversive...

http://www.norahjones.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1141

heh, heh, heh, heh, heh..... 

Hey Rooster cut and paste, I'm banned.

[Sica]

i was banned, and i hadnt even signed in yet. yeah for openmindedness!

[shawn·m]

I’m somehow reminded of Buddy Hackett in Music Man shouting “Protect the children” and “pure boys.”

[Guest Mnytime]

Don't let this clown scare you guys, he can't do shit to us. Dan Gould, you rock! Bring hellfire down baby!!!

Does this guy actually scare anyone?

[Guest Mnytime]

Another thing. This whole the Industry likes Norah so if you saying anything but positive remarks toward her you will get anyone banned is crap. The industry could care less about Norah personally or anyone for that matter. As long as she or anyone else is selling records they are "loved". The second anyone stops selling that love flies out the window quicker than you can say "Bye". The music industry is filled with one hit wonders that where "loved" by the industry and forgotten really quickly the second they stopped selling. It's the same with big name acts that have had several major hits, which Norah is not as of yet. Anyone that doesn’t know this about the Music or Film Industry doesn’t know anything about these industries.

If anything the Music industry loves having a War of Words between muscians or bands. Leads to more attention (free publicity) and possibly more sales.

One more thing just because someone sells records does not mean they have any talent. I give you Britney Spears, Madonna, and 99% of what is selling these days.

And all I have to say about the Grammy's is Milli Vanilli.

Another thing, that Milli Vanilla and for that matter Norah Jones have more Grammy’s than Elvis, The Beatles, The Stones, and Led Zeppelin all have combined is all that needs to be said about the Grammy’s. :rolleyes:

That’s if you can even get by my first comment on the Grammy’s, Milli Vanilli. :D

Finally, that Norah needs this guy to threaten other musicians who may say negative comments shows that those behind her don't have confidence enough in her talents. Though I am pretty sure if someone where to show her this person's threats and posts she might be more upset with him than anyone that posted anything negative about her.

In fact, since he does work for Norah and or Blue Note, he makes both libel for potential Lawsuits because of his threats while working for them and in their name!!!!

Edited May 20, 2003 by Mnytime

[connoisseur series500]

I've got nothing against Norah Jones; it's her shoeshine boy that's got me steamed (see other poll thread.)

[davef]

I'm quite grateful for Norah, actually, always felt her success makes it easier for me to get the BN reissues I want... and perhaps she sometimes serves as a gateway to more jazz... more power to ya, Norah, and I plan on buying Come Away with Me on SACD!

As for musicboy, I haven't seen or heard that much sanctimony all year! DOJ? This is the best-mannered of the jazz sites on the web! Ha!

Peace, joy, and love to ye of all faiths...

[Rooster_Ties]

You wanna talk about being subversive...

http://www.norahjones.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1141

heh, heh, heh, heh, heh..... 

Hey Rooster cut and paste, I'm banned.

Well, I'm not banned yet... I got my sig chopped off, cuz it had a link to our board, and I got a link to our original "Race" thread nuked. But I'm still there, and still posting. Do a search for posts by "Rooster_Ties" (don't forget the "_" character). I'm up to about 10 posts.

And check the "Race" thread I started there again. Talk about surreal!!!!

And so then, if I'm understanding this right?? - if you're 'banned' from the Norah board, then you can't even LOOK at their board???? (Remember when Jim got accidently banned from the BNBB?? He could still read everything on the BNBB, he just couldn't post.)

Anyway, for those of you who are "banned", here's the state of the thread, as of now. So far it's just me and Musicboy, each pretending that nothing has ever happened over here on our board. (You know, for the sake of the children... )

Racial Interaction, How to foster more/better communication?

Unofficially Norah Jones Forum Index -> Not Necessarily Norah

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Rooster_Ties

Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 11

Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 10:48 pm    Post subject: Racial Interaction, How to foster more/better communication?   

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Greetings!! I know I'm new around here, but I hope you don't mind me starting a thread about a topic that can be kinda difficult to talk about.

This is a topic I also recently started on the Organissimo board, and I thought it might be interesting to start the same topic here too. Also, let me say right up front, you don't have to have all the answers, or even any of answers -- to what I know is maybe an uncomfortable topic. But I do sincerely want your feedback on the subject. Here is the text of first post of the topic I started over there, to kick things off...

By the way, the full title of the thread (over on the other board, in the "Politics" forum) is...

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Race and Racial Interaction, in America and beyond, How to foster more/better communication?

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I've wanted to bring up this topic for a long time, both here and even back on the BNBB [the "Blue Note Bulletin Board", before it closed], so here goes...

Maybe I should also mention, right up front, that I'm a white male, married, age 34, with no kids, who lives 'in the city' in a mostly all-white neighborhood, although about 15% of our immediate neighbors (within 1 or 2 miles) are Hispanic. But, if you go just 2 or 3 miles due east of where I live, you start to get into the mostly all-Black neighborhood. (Kansas City, like I suspect most (but maybe not all?) bigger cities in America, borders on being 'hyper-segregated' in our living/neighborhood patterns.) I'm currently unemployed (since January), but my last work environment ('white collar', in Information Systems at the corporate headquarters of a Fortune 1000 company) was probably 90% White, with the remaining 10% mostly being made of up of various Asian, Indian, and Middle-Eastern minorities, with few Blacks.

Anyway, last Saturday I went to an interesting forum/round-table discussion, about the state of "Race Relations" in Kansas City and in the greater K.C. metropolitan area. At this forum, there was a period of Q&A with the panel - and one of my questions was selected and discussed by the whole group. My question was this:

"Kansas City is not very integrated, especially in our neighborhoods, our churches, and (although maybe to a lesser degree) in many of our work environments. What can White people do to get involved in improving race relations?? And, perhaps even more importantly, what can White people do to find ways to interact and socialize in more racially integrated circles??"

Various members of the panel had a few good suggestions, but the overall response (and struggle to respond) left me thinking that this really is a difficult question to answer, or at least here (in Kansas City), and it probably is also in many communities. So, then, I pose the same question here...

For those interested, what can we all do (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, etc...) to have more face-to-face interaction, in a positive and comfortable/casual setting, on a periodic regular basis, with people of different racial backgrounds??

For instance, my wife and I belong to a very dogmatically-liberal Unitarian Church in midtown Kansas City - where the social-circle I/we run in there (made up of mostly "30-somethings") has every kind of diversity you can think of, except racial diversity. And by other kinds of diversity, I mean things like gender, class (or at least income-level), gender-preference, single/married, kids/no-kids, city-dwellers/suburbanites, professionals, artists, students, you-name-it, and so on.... But as much as I like all that, I would love to find some regular social outlets that were more racially mixed.

A while back I played in a pool-league for a couple years, and our 'all-White' team sometimes played 'all-Black' teams - sometimes at our bar, sometimes at theirs, and I really enjoyed that. And I had some cool conversations once with a couple slightly-younger-than-me Black guys when we were all in a jury pool together all day long, a few years ago. And one or two of the jazz clubs in Kansas City draw a mixed crowd, somewhat. But you see my point - (at least in this town) one has to really look for opportunities to mix with others who are different. And even then, there often isn’t that much interaction.

Any thoughts on my questions above, or about this topic in general???

Thanks!! -- Rooster Ties. 

PS: Yes, I'll admit it, based on my personal interests in Jazz, (perhaps obviously) I'm looking for more opportunities for Black/White interaction (in particular). But, that doesn't mean I'm any less open to other more diverse social-circles as well.

Last edited by Rooster_Ties on Mon May 19, 2003 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Musicboy

Administrator

Joined: 23 Feb 2003

Posts: 373

Location: United States

Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 11:20 pm    Post subject:   

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RT,

I think it's simple. Choose to Love people, & interact with them based on nothing other than personal merit, & the way they treat you & others. Race only becomes an issue when the bad choice is made to make it an issue. I don't consider it. People are people, no matter where they come from, or what they look like. You might now ask: " If it's so simple, why don't some people do it?"

The short answer is: "ignorance of the truth." That is that we all start in the womb, & end in the grave. Proof enough for me that all mankind is created equal.

_________________

Jascha Heifetz, a great concert Violinist, was once approached by an adoring fan who said: "You were excellent! I would give a third of my lifetime away if I could learn to play like that." Jascha Heifetz responded: "Maam, I have."

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Rooster_Ties

Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 11

Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 11:43 pm    Post subject:    

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While I don't exactly disagree with anything you've said in this thread (your post right above this), I am wondering what you and other people experience in your normal day-to-day interactions with other people, of different ethnic backgrounds.

While I'm not specifically trying to make Race "an issue" (as you say), I am aware of the simple fact that as a society, we often tend to interact more with people of our own ethnic backgrounds. This is very often the case in school lunchrooms, on up to in the living patterns (meaning neighborhood boundries) we live in.

I guess what I'm asking is for other people's observations (yours included) of what kinds of social settings people find more frequent constructive racial interaction. Not neccesarily conversation about Race, per se, but opportunities for people to find some common interests, and perhaps learn something beyond what they're own background has taught them.

Food for thought, hopefully. Peace...

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Musicboy

Administrator

Joined: 23 Feb 2003

Posts: 373

Location: United States

Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 11:50 pm    Post subject:   

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Well, I'd have to say as a musician I've experienced the most intimate & diverse racial or multi-ethnic interaction. The inner city neigborhood I grew up in would come in second, then Sports would come in third in my life anyhow. In all situations listed above, I found that people can work together very effectively if they choose to, regardless of where they come from, or what their nationality is.

_________________

Jascha Heifetz, a great concert Violinist, was once approached by an adoring fan who said: "You were excellent! I would give a third of my lifetime away if I could learn to play like that." Jascha Heifetz responded: "Maam, I have."

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Rooster_Ties

Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 11

Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 12:19 am    Post subject:     

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I agree that sports can certainly a great place to interact with people from all kinds of different backgrounds. When I look at most college sports teams (my wife is a big K.U. basketball fan, though I'm not much of a sports fan myself), I do see a much higher degree of cooperative racial interaction there (and in other teams) than I've ever had the fortune of experiencing, personally.

I grew up in the 'suburbs', mostly white - in one of the most racially segregated counties in the whole country (near St. Louis). (The county is racially segregated by living paterns, and not from any sort of law or mandate.) I never played sports in high-school or college, so I didn't get my chance there. And my musical background is in 'classical' music (choral singing), which tends to be mostly lilly-white as well - or at least it was in both my high-school and college experiences.

I would imaging that growing up in a racially mixed neighborhood could contribute strongly to some unique perspectives on race. But I wonder, Musicboy, if you might have seen some of what I'm talking about, in your own childhood?? (In terms of racial grouping, even in mixed race settings.)

What I'm getting at in this thread (and the thread I started on the other board), is how to find ways to begin to overcome these natural tendencies that have been proven through various studies, where people tend to gather in social settings in groups that are racially 'monochromatic', for lack of a better word.

I mean, it's not for lack of trying on my part. I sang in our church choir yesterday (a big long choral work, with a tiny 'orchestra', made up of half a dozen string players from the local music conservatory), and during the hour-long break between the two church services, I made a point to have breakfast with the one string player who was African American. We found we had plenty in common, in our jazz interests (he was an upright string bass player), and I suspect we'll try to hookup again sometime, to listen to some tunes and such.

Still, and here's my main point (see my first post up above), the opportunities for casual social interaction in mixed-race situations are pretty few and far between, at least in my town. And I was wondering if anyone else experiences this too, and what places (if any) they find that there are more chances for this kind of casual "exchange of ideas", between blacks, whites, hispanics, etc...

I know it's getting late as I'm typing this, but when others presumably see this thread in the coming days, please chime in with your observations, from your own life and environment. Thanks!! 

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And it's just not the same without Musicboy's avatar....

Edited May 20, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

I also posted this in a thread called "How did you discover Norah jones?"

Rooster_Ties

Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 11

Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 6:22 pm    Post subject: Thoughts from a big fan of Blue Note jazz...   

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I can't say specifically when I first heard of Norah Jones, as I had seen her name in print for many, many months before I actually heard any of her songs. I used to be a long-time member of the bulletin board at the Blue Note web-site, often called the 'BNBB' for short (which unfortunately closed (maybe temporarily?) - but that's a whole 'nother story that I won't go into here), and there was lots of discussion there about Norah, both pro and con (like whether she was really a jazz musician or not).

But I do remember the first time I actually heard Norah, and that was when she was on Saturday Night Live. I figured that since she was generating all that on-line discussion, that I'd better find out for myself what she was all about.

I was pleasantly surprised by what I heard, actually. I'm not really much of a fan of vocal jazz - although I do really love instrumental jazz, especially by Blue Note jazz musicians from the 60's, like Herbie Hancock, Lee Morgan, Wayne Shorter, and plenty of other jazz musicians like Miles Davis and Duke Ellington. BUT, I did like Norah's SNL appearance, perhaps because it wasn't anything like the vocal jazz styles that I'm not all that interested in. (I'm not saying vocal jazz is bad - it's just not something I care for very much.)

About a month after her SNL appearance, I borrowed Norah's CD from a co-worker, and I thought it was quite nice. A little slow at times, and not something I'm naturally drawn to, but I found I liked it quite a bit more than I was expecting to. And, I could easily see liking it in some contexts better than others. (For instance, I sure wouldn't listen to Norah if I was driving on a long trip, late at night, all by myself. I'd fall asleep at the wheel!!) But in the right context, I do think her music is quite beautiful, and her voice is clearly something very special.

Norah's sales success is something nearly unprecedented at Blue Note, and some people really want to get into a big debate about whether Norah really is 'jazz' or not, and whether she should be on the Blue Note label or not. Then lots of other people like (or love) her music, regardless of whether it should be called jazz or not.

Personally I don't really think she's really anything like what I happen to call jazz (meaning that I don’t think she’s jazz), but that's OK. It's a big world, and there's plenty of room for people with different ideas, and different ways of categorizing music. If someone wants to call her music jazz, that's OK with me.

Also, a number of us die-hard Blue Note fans think that the mega-sales of Norah's CD's have helped the label to re-release some more obscure jazz albums from the 60's, which is good for those of us who really love that sort of thing.

Well, that's my story about how I came to hear Norah Jones' music. Cheers!! 

-- Rooster Ties

Damn, I'm "squeaky-clean" subversive...

I've posted in some other threads there too, and I'll probably continue as long as the mood strikes me. Also, I think I'm getting pretty good (at least in this post about how I first heard Norah) in writing in "young-speak"...

Of course, I am concerned that this quote will get me banned from over there...

"...but that's OK. It's a big world, and there's plenty of room for people with different ideas..."

Edited May 20, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[bertrand]

I hate to sound picky, but Miles Davis did record for Blue Note, both as a leader and a sideman.

Bertrand.

[J Larsen]

Ditto Duke Ellington.

[Neon]

OK, I just caught up on this thread. I'm in the UK and have a family life as well. So, it's taken loger than I would have liked or thought necessary.

What can I say?

I'm sorry, guys. This was not good cop, bad cop - at least not on my part. It's not a good time for me to post - I'm still very angry and upset, not to say embarrassed.

If I can face you guys again, I'll post later.

Edited May 20, 2003 by Neon

[Big Wheel]

Hey, I think we ended up lucky to have Musicboy over here. The OTHER moderator (not Neon) of some of the Norah forums, according to his website, is a Kenny G fan.

Edited May 20, 2003 by Big Wheel

[Big Wheel]

Oh, and I wasn't going to say anything about the fundamentalist Christianity and prowar crapola (the old canard that Saddam was behind 9/11) all over that site until I saw the links to Bob Jones University on it. Does Norah Jones really want these schmucks supporting her? This guy upholds the integrity of an institution that would prefer a situation by which Norah Jones wouldn't even exist--that is, it frowns on the interracial relationship between Shankar and Norah's mother (never mind the fact that she was born out of wedlock).

Edited May 20, 2003 by Big Wheel

[Guest Mnytime]

OK, I just caught up on this thread. I'm in the UK and have a family life as well. So, it's taken loger than I would have liked or thought necessary.

What can I say?

I'm sorry, guys. This was not good cop, bad cop - at least not on my part. It's not a good time for me to post - I'm still very angry and upset, not to say embarrassed.

If I can face you guys again, I'll post later.

Neon

You might point out to your Co-Moderator that with all his threats he has put both your employers into possible legal problems. Since the courts have made it very clear that the employer is very much responsible for anything their employees post or email on the net.

Another thing, as Big Wheel points out Bob Jones University and their racist views is not exactly someone that should be associated in anyway with Norah Jones. Unless Norah has a problem as well with Non-Whites and Interracial marriage. Which I really doubt considering her heritage.

I am somewhat sure she would be offended that a link to Bob Jones University is on a board that has her name on it.

Edited May 20, 2003 by Mnytime

[Ed S]

Where did you guys find the link to Bob Jones University? I took a quick look around and could not find it.

[Dan Gould]

Neon, I appeal to you to end this by talking some sense into Musicboy.

[Joe G]

OK, I just caught up on this thread. I'm in the UK and have a family life as well. So, it's taken loger than I would have liked or thought necessary.

What can I say?

I'm sorry, guys. This was not good cop, bad cop - at least not on my part. It's not a good time for me to post - I'm still very angry and upset, not to say embarrassed.

If I can face you guys again, I'll post later.

Neon,

Please come back and chat with us when you are ready. You are well respected here and we are interested in your take on all this.

Sincerely,

Joe Gloss

[Rooster_Ties]

Neon, I appeal to you to end this by talking some sense into Musicboy.

I would second this request. Musicboy has really gotten way out of hand.

Neon, you seem like a very reasonable person, and I too would greatly welcome your return to discuss this situation in a more calm and reasonable manner. We won't bite, I assure you. We are not even 1/1000th as 'evil' as Musicboy paints us to be, with broad brush stokes. As you can see in this thread, and in another thread that he started (link: Is it over? We'll see...), he has made some 'jaw-droppingly' amazing threats to the moderators of our board, and to some of us on the board, in response to a very tiny bit of harmless fun from a very small number of us.

As a result, Organissimo (the band) have been threatened collectively, and their members threatened individually - in terms of Musicboy's supposed influence in "the music industry". Sure we were offended enough when our posts on your board were deleted, but they were restored - and for that we thank you. Those messages didn't really matter much, and it was more of a matter of principle. But Musicboy's attitude that we are somehow violating the Internet Protection Act, and that we need to be monitored (which he is supposedly so happy to do), in order to turn over his findings to the Department of Justice. My god, Musicboy appears to many of us be a paranoid raving lunatic.

In any case, please do return to our board, and we will be happy to discuss this all in a more calm and reasonable manner. We are all adults here, and deep down we wish no ill will towards you or your Norah Jones board.

Thank you. -- Rooster Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

i was banned, and i hadnt even signed in yet. yeah for openmindedness!

Really??? How the hell did that happen???

[Ed S]

Neon

He has gone further than to harrass the band and band members. His threats have been issued to all whom he deems to be troublemakers. He claims that he has "recorded" comments here, has logged IP addresses, has tracked emails and has threatened to make our lives miserable by filing charges even though he knows he may not even have a case. That is a clear cut case of harrassment.

He has threatened to disseminate across the internet the "fact" that this board is full of Christian hating bigots. As a member, I resent this defamation of my character and furthermore, I resent his repeated use of my name in a context that also includes references to the need for protection of children at this site. Those are serious accusations. I would advise you to inform him to cease and desist.

[connoisseur series500]

He claims that he has "recorded" comments here, has logged IP addresses, has tracked emails and has threatened to make our lives miserable by filing charges even though he knows he may not even have a case. That is a clear cut case of harrassment.

If anybody's computer gets a virus we know who sent it.

This guy is just the type of narrowminded bigot to attempt to do something like that.

Anybody know about that sort of thing? Anything we should do to protect ourselves?

[Dan Gould]

And so then, if I'm understanding this right?? - if you're 'banned' from the Norah board, then you can't even LOOK at their board???? (Remember when Jim got accidently banned from the BNBB?? He could still read everything on the BNBB, he just couldn't post.)

That's correct, Rooster. Their Christian Fascist Police State software is so good, that it freezes all of the links so that the only page that will load is the one that declares you an Enemy of the State, er, I mean, Persona Non Grata, I mean, er, um, no longer welcome at the site.

[Jazzmoose]

Neon, I've got to chime in as well. I understand the embarrassment, but don't sweat it. We're not going to blame you for the Boy being such a doofus; unlike Boy, we don't assume everyone at your board speaks with the same voice. It's cool.

But if you can slap the mofo upside the head, feel free...

[Claude]

If you delete the cookies from norahjones.info you should be able to browse the board as guest again.

They could also block your IP address, but that would be rather useless as most people use dialup connections and change the IP address at every connection.

Edited May 20, 2003 by Claude