AllenLowe Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 (edited) so far, in a parallel thread here, Clementine has called me a "douche" and a "jackoff," has repeatedly attacked me personally, has slandered me professionally and basically slimed on my reputation - can I assume this is just Organissimo business as usual, or do I have a real grievance here? I ain't perfect, but I know when I've gone too far; clearly Clementine has no such self-limits - Edited November 20, 2005 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 I think this calls for action - at least some warning signal is in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 Is this going on in the Politics forum? (I don't "see" that forum) I hadn't even known Clementine had been back. So I can't say if Clem has gone beyond the bounds here or not, but it sure as heck would be no skin off my nose, or any great loss to this community, if he went the way of Aric and Greg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 I think this calls for action - at least some warning signal is in order. ← ...as if he'd pay any attention to that. I just read the thread mentioned and I'm with Lowe on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 it's the Bill Frisell thread - and I gotta admit that what bothers me, in addition to what he's doing, is that I find myself doing the same in response - it's a very ugly circle, and, if you're a hot-head like me, a dangerous game. But I think enough ought to be enough; I really don't appreciate the personal comments that don't just relate to my opinions but to my whole professional reputation - and, unlike Clem, when I fight this out, I don't hide behind some pseudo-hip mask of anonymity - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 oh the irony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) well, yes and no, couw, and thanks for proving me correct in so many ways - my disagreement with you was over your little tweaks at me whenever I made a comment you did not like, and you've backed off, as have I - and you will remember that I deleted one thread that got too personal - unlike you I have no desire to re-live that, or make it personal once more - until now you've gone your own way and I've gone mine - so, no, there is nothing ironic about this situation (unless you count how your current comment proves me correct in retrospect) - also, couw, you don't seemed to find it convenient to remember that I sent you a personal email at that time to try to reconcile our personal battle - which, as you may also recall, you felt free to ignore - Edited November 21, 2005 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Allen: Did you ask the moderators -- via the private messaging system -- about their possibly taking some sort of action against clem and did you not receive a response? Is that why you felt it necessary to begin this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 ← Did you paint that, Chuck? Not bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 I remember when Clem suddenly chained himself to the political forum and camped out for about 3 months, whispering sweet nothings in my ear day & night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 What goes around comes around. While Allen may not have called Clementine a douche in the "Where's Clementine" thread (while Clementine was away from the board), I seem to recall endless digs & snipes at him and his character. Why don't you just ignore him, as some of us here enjoy what he has to say. I'm still running (er, more like strolling as I've been slow about it) down his list of country recs from way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 also, couw, you don't seemed to find it convenient to remember that I sent you a personal email at that time to try to reconcile our personal battle - which, as you may also recall, you felt free to ignore - ← That email exchange took place in a whole other context and was indeed very friendly and went like that both ways. There is no need to twist and look for excuses for your crappy behaviour of days gone by. I was commenting on your obviously getting the idea that it really utterly sucks to get personal insults thrown at you for no apparant reason. You were an utter troll yourself in a not too distant past and so yes, one could say this is pretty ironic. I am not laughing though and I hope Clem deletes his crap like you deleted yours. Have a beer on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) Allen, Just put him on your ignored users list. As far as personal attacks... I don't think what Clem's done has yet crossed the line in terms of the board rules, just in terms of good taste. That said, these kinds of catfights are annoying to the rest of us. Can't people carry them out via PM? Guy Edited November 21, 2005 by Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) I have taken no personal snipes at Clem prior to this, that I recall (if I have I'm willing to look at the evidence and confess accordingly)- I have merely had the gall to disagree with Clem. COUW, there was nothing crappy about my behavior - you behaved nastily, had a nack for putting a gratuitous response to things I posted, and the email I wrote was an attempt at preventing escalation. That was the way I saw it, though clearly not the way you viewed it - but it ended - so what purpose was served by your bringing it up here again as a way to divert this to an attack on me? and no, I did not approach the moderators privately; I was not aware that this could be done - Edited November 21, 2005 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 I did not approach the moderators privately; I was not aware that this could be done - ← Now you are being obtuse. You know how to pm and email others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) no Chuck, you're missing the point - I just did not see anything on the Organissimmo cover page indicating a specific grievance procedure - and THIS is the forum for discussing forum questions and problems - Edited November 21, 2005 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) there is a line here that I think was crossed - it's one thing for someone on his board to tell me I'm full of shit - that would not thrill me, but I don't think it would be out of line in a spirited intellectual/musical discussion. It is another to basically raise certain questions about me personally, my profession, and my motivations. That is a much different thing and, IMHO, out of line and contrary to the spirit of this forum - Edited November 21, 2005 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Forum Rules - PLEASE READ! **DISCLAIMER!** The messages posted on these forums express the views of the author of the message, and not necessarily the views of this bulletin board or the band Organissimo. Welcome, and thank you for visiting the Organissimo Forums. We hope to be your number one spot on the internet to discuss the band, jazz, music, and more! As with any society, members of the Organissimo Forums must abide by a set of rules. Our rules are as follows: 1) The Organissimo Forums support free speech although the definition of that speech is defined by the owners and operators of this board. We reserve the right to edit, delete, or moderate any post we deem inappropriate at any time. 2) Anything judged to be a direct personal threat towards another member of this board will be deleted and the offender may face banning. The definiton of "threat" is determined by our moderators. 3) We do not tolerate offensive material. This includes all posts, links, signatures and avatars.The definition of "offensive" is determined by the moderators. 4) Flame wars will not be tolerated! We rarely delete threads, but we do have the power to close them so that no new posts can be added. If a thread degrades to the point that we deem it necessary, we will close it. 5) We do not allow multiple memberships or aliases: We allow one account per person. Anyone found to have multiple accounts will have one or more of those accounts deleted and face possible banning. If you would like to discuss these rules and/or a possible violation of them, please do not hesitate to contact us at forum@organissimo.org Thank you and enjoy your stay! --- Organissimo --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Allen, please slow down a bit - damn near every one of you posts is edited within minutes, if not seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chaney Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 there is a line here that I think was crossed - it's one thing for someone on his board to tell me I'm full of shit - that would not thrill me, but I don't think it would be out of line in a spirited intellectual/musical discussion. It is another to basically raise certain questions about me personally, my profession, and my motivations. That is a much different thing and, IMHO, out of line and contrary to the spirit of this forum - ← It is another to basically raise certain questions about me personally, my profession, and my motivations. Is criticizing the critic not allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 well, you can criticize the critic for missing a point, for being wrong, for not understanding something - but to call him a douche and other assorted insults, to say that his problems are personal (like he's too intellectualy fucked up to know right from wrong and that professionally he's the equivalent of a pimp) is not really the same thing- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) sorry, Chuck, I'm working on several fronts tonight - in the big picture I don't really care if Clem is on this forum or not - maybe this has been a good way to let off some steam - but let me give you an equivalent - I know you were very close to Lester Bowie. If I happened to say in some post, as we argued, "hey did you really have any relationship woth Bowie or did you PAY HIM?" (read Clem's reference to this per me and Rudd and Hemphill) - well than, Chuck you would be quite offended. Hemphill was a wonderful guy, I still grieve for what was a very untimely death, I recorded with him twice (a third recording was cancelled when he got sick at the end), and I spent time with him in his last days and I was utterly devastated by his death. Clem's glib reference to this has upset me quite a bit, but I'm over it now and that's that. Edited November 21, 2005 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 amen - I haven't hugged a hairy fat guy in some time - other than myself, of course - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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