medjuck Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Discographical information: There seems to be 3 different versions of this: The original Lp (and I think cd) a cd containing the original as well as The Africa Brass Sessions Vol 2 and finally a 2 cd set entitled The Complete Africa Brass Sessions. The last named may be the easiest to obtain nowadays. I have the 2nd mentioned cd and the notes have a lot of misleading information. I presume that The Complete... has better notes. (Or you can check an on-line discography.) And why was it ever referred to as being by The John Coltrane Quartet? There are at 15 musicians playing even if only the quartet members take solos. (Actually even that's not true: both bass players seem to solo and some of Dolphy's fills might be called solos. ) All versions have cuts from 2 different sessions: May 23rd and June 4th 1961. In between these 2 sessions Coltrane recorded the rather similar Oleo for Atlantic with another augmented quartet (an extra bass player and Dolphy--who does get to solo. ) I love this record-- or at last the original release. The master takes do seem to me to be the best. Coltrane is on fire and the brass lays an almost mellow cushion for him. On Africa, at the end of Tyner's solo he begins playing block chords that are then continued by the brass. Similarly at the end of Elvin's solo the two basses come in almost imperceptibly: one arco and one plucked. (This doesn't happen on the alternate take I have. however, on that take McCoy takes a great solo which includes what I can only describe as a "rolling chorus"- if that makes sense.) And hey, is that the father of the governor of Massachusetts on baritone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 (edited) Great choice, love this one. Dolphy did an amazing job on the arrangements, and Trane's playing is awe-inspiring. I agree about the originally released masters being the strongest (the original album doesn't have a weak moment on it, stone classic start to finish), but there are titles on the "complete" set ("Song of the Underground Railroad" and "the Damned Don't Cry") that are well worth having, and the set is not expensive. edited to correct week/weak spelling mistake! Edited February 12, 2007 by felser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Great choice, love this one. Dolphy did an amazing job on the arrangements, and Trane's playing is awe-inspiring. I agree about the originally released masters being the strongest (the original album doesn't have a week moment on it, stone classic start to finish), but there are titles on the "complete" set ("Song of the Underground Railroad" and "the Damned Don't Cry") that are well worth having, and the set is not expensive. Not sure what a "week moment" is but you really need the 2 disc set. The notes answer your questions and give you more music in better sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 (edited) Not sure what a "week moment" is but you really need the 2 disc set. The notes answer your questions and give you more music in better sound. It's a lot like a weak moment, but not spelled as correctly. Edited February 12, 2007 by felser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Not sure what a "week moment" is but you really need the 2 disc set. The notes answer your questions and give you more music in better sound. I have the 2-CD set and don't have anything to compare it with , but I've always thought that the sound was pretty mediocre , especially given the sonic excellence of other Impulse recordings . The orchestra is veiled and distant , and Tranes's horn on The Damned Don't Cry is watery . The orchestrations and Trane's solos are sublime , and among the supporting players Reggie Workman stands very tall indeed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 among the supporting players Reggie Workman stands very tall indeed . That statement is true for countless sessions. Why did Trane replace Workman with Garrison? I've never read an answer to that, and it's not clear the way that replacing, say Art Taylor/Lex Humphries and Steve Kuhn with Elvin Jones and McCoy Tyner would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Listened to my old LP last night which I hadn't heard for probably 10 years. It is a great session, very satisfying listening. In Ashley's Khan's "The House That "Trane Built", it's claimed that Oliver Nelson was supposed to be the arranger for this session, but was unavailable at the last moment. Perhaps that was providential, since I can't imagine he would have arranged like this for the band. Not to take anything away from Oliver, but I expect his arranging would have been more "mainstream," perhaps not even using this intrumentation. But what Dolphy does with the brass is quite astounding. I love those French horn shrieks. And the baritone horns are very nice. Of course, Coltrane is a powerhouse, and Tyner sounds very inspired, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 This version of "Greensleeves" is kind of stiff compared to the ones recorded at the Vanguard. I'm not a huge fan of this song. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I have the 2nd mentioned cd and the notes have a lot of misleading information. I presume that The Complete... has better notes. Even that manages to screw up the original release information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 I love this album...especially Greensleeves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 My favorite things on this set, by far, are the alternate and master take of "Africa". I love the ensemble's playing behind Coltrane, Elvin's drumming, the bass drone, and especially Trane's playing. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Interesting comparing all 3 takes of Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Indeed - I had all the LP issues of that material which was scattered over three or four LPs and was glad when the double CD finally gave me all in one place and far better sound. Go for the double - it's worth it! It was billed as a quartet album as it was simply that with a brass section added, none of whom got to solo. Dolphy's arrangements were based on Tyner's voicings and the like - sometimes it sounds like a stampede of elephants - great stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 ..... the bass drone, ..... Yeah - Africa/Brass was the first music where I heard, appreciated and loved this kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I love this album...especially Greensleeves. I only have the LP as issued and not the extra material, but will give it a spin this week. There's a nice version of "Greensleeves" from the Noah Howard/Frank Lowe juggernaut of the early '70s which floats around on free jazz trees from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 One of my all time faves - gave the 2CD set a listen recently and also my mid-70s UK Impulse LP, which I prefer sonically (although the additional material on the 2CD, 'Damned Don't Cry' in particular, is fascinating). 'Blue Minor' still raises the hairs, even 30 years after I first heard it. Condensed masterpiece ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Goren. Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I love this album...especially Greensleeves. Exactly my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) I'll go one step further - I love this album, esp'ly Greensleeves, particularly the alt. take... Edited February 15, 2007 by danasgoodstuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolivarblues Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I think Coltrane's final Atlantic album, Ole, should also be considered when discussing Africa/Brass. Of course there are many similarities in the music, as well as extraneous musicians (Dolphy, Hubbard, Art Davis). I've always seen Ole as Africa/Brass without the orchestra. It's also interesting to note that the recording session that produced Ole (May 25, 1961) was sandwiched in between the two that produced Africa/Brass (May 23 and June 7, 1961). The sound he gets from these two records is one unique to jazz as a whole, and totally unlike anything else he recorded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyhersom Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 (edited) My tastes in music run toward the dramatic and I'd give serious consideration to calling this the greatest recording ever. My preferred listening experience would be the original three track configuration, but I don't want to be without the bonus tracks. I have other moods in which the Body and Soul from Coltrane's Sound would get that honor, but I find myself wanting to hear this right now. I'll get home from work in a few hours, have to wait until then. Coltrane's entry over the throbbing heartbeat bass - what a moment. Edited February 16, 2007 by randyhersom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyhersom Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 P. S. Hell yeah on Greensleeves too! Whenever I hear Blues Minor I can't help but hear the tune's similarities to Bag's Groove, but I love it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Whenever I hear Blues Minor I can't help but hear the tune's similarities to Bag's Groove, but I love it too. It wasn't that long ago that "Bags and Trane" was recorded ... Hi, Randy - taking a break from scrabbling? Haven't seen you around here in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 I love this album...especially Greensleeves. Incredible that that tune was credited to King Henry VIII (or one of his 1500s Court musicians).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 I love the 2nd alternate of "Africa". Definitely one of my fav. Coltrane sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolivarblues Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Listening again for the first time in a while, and the first time since upgrading my speakers. Reggie Workman on "Song of the Underground Railroad" really stands out on these new speakers; he's just walking all over the place and swinging like mad! And of course there's Elvin back there stoking the fire; so, yeah, what stands out to me this go 'round is just how much this piece swings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.