Aggie87 Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I like the thoughts that are bouncing around too. If the following happened: 1. Make the board membership responsible for the cost of operating the board - not the band. Whether it's through an annual fund drive or regular (quarterly?) donations, keep a running tally of donations and income somewhere visible. If and when the fund pot gets down to a set amount, remind the board members that it's time to donate again. 2. Offload the moderation issues to a handful of level-headed board members that are willing to take on those responsibilities. 3. Offload the tech/admin responsibilities (board upgrades, coordination with the server host, backups, etc) to a willing board member(s) who have the computer skills to handle this. I'd guess there would be a few that could do it - I'm lucky to remember my password. Would that allow us to keep things going here in a manner that makes everyone generally happy? More importantly would it free up enough time/mental energy for Jim to devote to other far more important priorities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Yeah, Jim, I mean, your plate is full with real life right now, you ought to have the option/luxury of being CEO of this board and delegating the day-to-days to your hand-picked "management team". You've paid the cost to be the boss here, dig? There's enough love and reality in the mix to put together a good team, I think, and if it don't/won't please everybody (and we all know damn well that at any goven point in time that it won't...), oh well, it ain't a perfect world, and it would certainly be less perfect w/o any O-World at all, right? Better to be pissed of at/"ruled" by "our own" than "them", right? Let's keep talking and see if we can get this shazizzle rolling into the new year with some smiling faces on the breakfast plate, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Seems to me there is a win-win situation in the making. I sure hope so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Jim, I want to comment about one of your concerns, that the board has become an insiders club, not friendly to new people. I have actually felt that way momentarily on occasion. I have noticed that a group of heavy posters will agree on an opinion about an album or artist, and then that becomes the orthodoxy. If a person who has not been a heavy poster for a long time weighs in with a different thought, some (but not all) of the heavy posters will be quick to condemn the new thought, in a rather competitive spirit of trying to "win" against the newer member. This can be momentarily disconcerting, but I have decided that it is part of the vitality of the board, and not really so bad. Compared to the way that people are treated on other music boards, this board is very fair, mild and reasonable. Most of us have much more disagreeable interactions in our work and family lives, I suspect. A bit of a thick skin is needed on the internet. So I think that your concerns are a bit overblown. They are based on a kernel of truth, but it's not that bad. Also, another leading jazz online board has recently become dominated by a few very young people who spout out very frequent unmitigated nonsense at all hours of the day (in my humble opinion). To me, this has damaged the experience at that other board. That would not happen here. The same group of regulars who are perhaps a wee bit quick to challenge a newcomer would also keep such a regrettable thing from happening here. I have raised two children, the youngest is now eleven. I know the stress and strain of an infant in the house. It can be overwhelming. I can certainly understand it if you would like others to take over your time commitment. But I hope that your decision is not finally determined by any notion of a lack of quality on this board. Despite a few blackheads, this board is still the most stunningly gorgeous jazz face on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 just sent in 30$ - donation time, folks! too long I haven't donated anything... I guess this brings me up to having donated for the first two or three years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 this just to proof we're not just talking about paying... even though each of us may contribute just a bit, it might end up quite something if many of us do contribute, as has been stated before by others... 50 x 30$ would be quite a nice sum, in fact... (I don't get any percentage of it, just to make sure... wouldn't complain about that, though...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think we should pay by the post - JSangry, we'll bill you - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Jim, I want to comment about one of your concerns, that the board has become an insiders club, not friendly to new people. I have actually felt that way momentarily on occasion. I have noticed that a group of heavy posters will agree on an opinion about an album or artist, and then that becomes the orthodoxy. If a person who has not been a heavy poster for a long time weighs in with a different thought, some (but not all) of the heavy posters will be quick to condemn the new thought, in a rather competitive spirit of trying to "win" against the newer member. That's just a mirror of "the real world", don't you think? Conventional wisdom ain't always right, but it doesn't get formed in a vacuum either. I mean, when Big Al (who I count as a friend who can take whatever heat he generates) comes up with "I don't get what all the fuss is about Bird!", hey, is there any respectable way to tell him he's not just full of shit, but flat out WRONG? Far more interesting, I think, is when the "heavy posters" (and does "heavy" refer to post count, intellectual acumen, or poundage? ) disagree. To hear reasoned and explicit deliniations of one's personal pros and cons about the "conventional wisdom" is the type of thing that forces one to confront, define, refine, and often enough redefine one's own opinions about same, and for me, that's about as cool as this "discussion" shit gets! I do agree wholeheartedly though, that the tendency of the board is to be mocking and/or condescending to people who are young, enthusiastic, but not even slightly grounded "in the tradition". They come in knowing what they know, not knowing what they don't, all full of that clueless youthful energy that we all wish we had now that we got some smarts to go with it, and too often get told to get outta the yard, we just cut the grass and all that, and besides, they don't know who Hank Mobley is, so what do we need them for anyways? Yeah, I know, plenty of them are airhead-ish, but will they always be so (and examine your own history before jumping to a conclusion...)? Basically, I'm just tired of "jazz attitude" that seems to stem from nothing more than "Hey, I've listened to this many records and know this many names and bits of trivia, so I know this music. You haven't, so you don't. Come back when you do, kid. IF you can, and I doubt that you can." That's just wrong in so many ways... Anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think we should pay by the post - JSangry, we'll bill you - Tax deductions await! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazaro Vega Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 The board and the web site has to be sustained by members. That a band is supporting these discussions is wrong, and that they're staying in debt and not going forward with a new cd is completely unacceptable. I'll pry some bread from my wife's purse and lay it on you. Keep a running total of how much needs be made each month, how close the giving has gotten to it, at the top of the page -- like a united way themometer, only jazz. Good luck, Jim. Don't be afraid to ask for money. The people who can afford it will come through. At this point it isn't a choice. That the band's artistic progress, potential financial reward and continuing documentation has been retarded by the forum is a SIN. LV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) So there is hope? Cool. Though I could certainly understand you wanting to just walk away from this stuff. Oh I want to, but I realize that wouldn't be fair to the community at large and would be rather dickish of me, I think. I wholeheartedly DISagree. Your family needs you infinitely more than we need you, and I would like to think that everyone here understands that. After reading your heartfelt post, I could've easily thought the same about me. There have been times when Nathan has called me to look at something and I've put him off because I'm in the middle of posting something here. How sick is that? Believe me, you're making the right decision. If someone else runs this place, so be it; but you, my friend, need to take care of YOU, your family (granted I know we're all one big happy dysfunctional family feud, but I mean Allison, Zora, and the new baby), and the band. You're doing the right thing here, my man. Edited December 5, 2007 by Big Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 If this thread does not scream out that the Organissimo forum is worth saving--indeed, that it must be saved--I can't think of anything more persuasive. Does anybody think the same kind of rallying would take place if either of the other two boards were on the edge of oblivion? I don't think so. This is, as many here have pointed out, a rather unique cyber community--yes, some of us have widely disparate views on issues and music, but we come together when the need to do so arises. there are a couple of posters here with whom I had fights so nasty that I began to wonder what was happening to me! We stopped, took deep breaths, and eliminated the silly problem. Conrad? He may think I'm anti-Semitic and I have a regrettable history of poking his posts in the pixels, but I would not want to see him leave the Big O. This thread gives us all the hope we need. Our objective is to relieve the burden--financial, mental, and physical--that makes Jim reach for the Tylenol and allow him to concentrate on his family and career while still being able to enjoy this wonderful creation of his that we fondly call the "Big O". We have the right spirit and the means by which it can remain kindled. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 If not, whatever transpires, just know that the moderation of this board has made it THE place for me. I've even been banned from another board in part by always stating I "prefer" this board. The philosophy and practice of moderation held and performed by you and the other moderators should be an example to every board in the world. I endorse that statement absolutely. MG I'll third that sentiment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think it would be a serious mistake to make the board 'subscription only', even with a free first month. Talk about something that would shut down new contributors! I think a better way would be a two-tiered system, with both free and paid members. Just come up with something silly to appeal to the vanity of the old farts, like setting up @organissimo.org email accounts or something and charge us $5 a month for the honor. Something like that. Some set up that encourages those who are on the border of contributing or not, but doesn't prevent the occasional or new user from seeing the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Just sent $30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) I think it would be a serious mistake to make the board 'subscription only', even with a free first month. Talk about something that would shut down new contributors! I think a better way would be a two-tiered system, with both free and paid members. Just come up with something silly to appeal to the vanity of the old farts, like setting up @organissimo.org email accounts or something and charge us $5 a month for the honor. Something like that. Some set up that encourages those who are on the border of contributing or not, but doesn't prevent the occasional or new user from seeing the board. Agree, a part the silly thing about the mail . We all have the wrong perception that on the web everything is for free, well it's not. This thread showed that there are enough people ready to pay for the living of Big O. As Sen. Blutarsky pointed out back in his college days: Let's do it! Is it politic quoting Sen. Blutarsky? If so, please Jim move this thread to political forum, or should I ask to JSngry? Edited December 5, 2007 by porcy62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Conventional wisdom ain't always right, but it doesn't get formed in a vacuum either. I mean, when Big Al (who I count as a friend who can take whatever heat he generates) comes up with "I don't get what all the fuss is about Bird!", hey, is there any respectable way to tell him he's not just full of shit, but flat out WRONG? I couldn't resist replying to this, so I replied here, so as not to derail the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Why do I have this eerie feeling this has happened before ... I think the outpouring of support has been great, and I think it bodes well for continuing the forum in some fashion. In any case, as has been said before, many thanks, Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Larsen Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think it would be a serious mistake to make the board 'subscription only', even with a free first month. Talk about something that would shut down new contributors! I think a better way would be a two-tiered system, with both free and paid members. Just come up with something silly to appeal to the vanity of the old farts, like setting up @organissimo.org email accounts or something and charge us $5 a month for the honor. Something like that. Some set up that encourages those who are on the border of contributing or not, but doesn't prevent the occasional or new user from seeing the board. This might be a completely dumb, ineffective idea, and furthermore may not even be implentable, BUT... what if the board is made free to all, but only paid members get access to special features like messaging, live chat, different fonts, etc. Just a random thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 If this thread does not scream out that the Organissimo forum is worth saving--indeed, that it must be saved--I can't think of anything more persuasive. Does anybody think the same kind of rallying would take place if either of the other two boards were on the edge of oblivion? I don't think so. This is, as many here have pointed out, a rather unique cyber community--yes, some of us have widely disparate views on issues and music, but we come together when the need to do so arises. there are a couple of posters here with whom I had fights so nasty that I began to wonder what was happening to me! We stopped, took deep breaths, and eliminated the silly problem. Conrad? He may think I'm anti-Semitic and I have a regrettable history of poking his posts in the pixels, but I would not want to see him leave the Big O. This thread gives us all the hope we need. Our objective is to relieve the burden--financial, mental, and physical--that makes Jim reach for the Tylenol and allow him to concentrate on his family and career while still being able to enjoy this wonderful creation of his that we fondly call the "Big O". We have the right spirit and the means by which it can remain kindled. Chris For once Chris, I agree with you! You may not be right as often as a stopped clock, but every once in a blue moon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Why do I have this eerie feeling this has happened before ... I think the outpouring of support has been great, and I think it bodes well for continuing the forum in some fashion. In any case, as has been said before, many thanks, Jim. Yes--please, this ending and not another one: "Forget it, Jake...it's the Internet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Berigan, I love you, man - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) Some of us have "products" of our own making (Books, CDs, etc.) that could be offered each month to a lucky drawer among the subscribers. It need not be restricted to our own work, anyone could donate something of interest to be the month's prize(s). Just another thought. Let me add a thanks to Conrad--I just spotted your post. Edited December 5, 2007 by Christiern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 This might be a completely dumb, ineffective idea, and furthermore may not even be implentable, BUT... what if the board is made free to all, but only paid members get access to special features like messaging, live chat, different fonts, etc. Just a random thought. Exactly. I don't think it's necessary, but it would be much better than scaring off potential new board members by making it a required subscription. Those of us who are already hooked don't mind, but a new person would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBop Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 I quit reading this thread a couple of pages ago. For me, it was time to ACT, not debate or moan. I sent along $33-and-a-third dollars and will send more if it'll keep this place in business. (That's supposed to be inspiration, not self-back-patting.) The cynical part of me wonders: shouldn't Blue Note and Mosaic be paying to keep the board up? There's certainly enough revenue generated here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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