Dan Gould Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I just spoke to Ira Gitler on the phone and asked him about the "missing instrument". He denied saying this and asked me to tell him where he said it and I got the book out. Best I can find is "..., but with one horn there is no chance for the texture of the usual Dameron ensemble to come through........" Did I miss a page, or do you have another edition of the book? You know, it definitely makes me wish that I had gone ahead and tracked down a copy to make sure the info was correct before repeating it to Weinstock. Thanks for going straight to the source, Chuck. Mike, what do you have to say in your defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 How many jazz bbs give you this kind of service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 (edited) Mike, what do you have to say in your defense? I dug out my copy of the book (the 1983 DaCapo paperback edition), and there it is at the bottom of page 273: There was one other Dameron LP in 1956. This was Mating Call which originally was to be recorded with a quintet but ended up with John Coltrane as the only horn. The sentence Chuck quoted is following immediately after this. Gitler wrote a new intoduction to this edition, so he could have known. But I don't blame him. B) Edited February 17, 2004 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Interesting. Over to you, Chuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I will copy and paste this to Ira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Maybe it is a matter of interpretation. On the one hand, "originally was to be recorded with a quintet" could mean that one horn player didn't show up for that date and they decided to go ahead anyway with Coltrane as the only horn. On the other hand, it could mean that Dameron originally intended to record with a quintet but changed his mind and decided to arrange the music for only one horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 My apology to Mike Weil - my first edition of the book reads as Mike says. In my haste I was befuddled by a page turn. I think John L's "on the other hand" interpretation is the most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 My apology to Mike Weil - my first edition of the book reads as Mike says. In my haste I was befuddled by a page turn. I think John L's "on the other hand" interpretation is the most likely. Perhaps, but its still contradicted by Bob's direct statement to me-it was meant as a quartet recording because Coltrane was playing with Dameron at the time. Chuck, I'd still be interested in Ira's reply since it all started with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I didn't get around to emailing Ira until about an hour ago. When I hear back I'll post the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 My apology to Mike Weil - my first edition of the book reads as Mike says. In my haste I was befuddled by a page turn. No reason to apologize - I appreciate it very much you take so much care to clear a detail the jazz world never would have cared for if I hadn't posted that question. The flap of a wing of a butterfly in China causes a hurricane in Texas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Either that or last night's barbeque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Well, I got an enigmatic reply from Ira: "Ah, you see, I never mentioned a trumpet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Julius Watkins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 (edited) quintet w/ 1 horn and a guitar? edit: nope, cause then the clasue "but ended up with Coltrane as only horn" doesn't make sense. alto sax player maybe? Shihab? Edited February 18, 2004 by couw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Ernie Henry? -- Imagine! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Perhaps a vocalist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Perhaps a vocalist? Perhaps Irene Aebi? ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 (edited) That's wierd about Gitler claiming that it's not a trumpet, because in his forthcoming autobiography 'How I Changed The Course of Jazz' (Houghton Mifflin, 2,653 pages, release date in the Spring), Wynton Marsalis claims that *he* was supposed to be the second horn on Mating Call. At the last minute he backed out, however, because he had to make a Buddy Bolden record date for which the tape alas disappeared before it could be released. Bertrand. Edited February 18, 2004 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 That's wierd about Gitler claiming that it's not a trumpet, because in his forthcoming autobiography 'How I Changed The Course of Jazz' (Houghton Mifflin, 2,653 pages, release date in the Spring), Wynton Marsalis claims that *he* was supposed to be the second horn on Mating Call. At the last minute he backed out, however, because he had to make a Buddy Bolden record date for which the tape alas disappeared before it could be released. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 "Ah, you see, I never mentioned a trumpet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Maybe Gitler's CYOA-ing. But I'm hearing "On A Misty Night" w/Trane and Julius Watkins, and I'm LIKING it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Maybe Gitler's CYOA-ing. But I'm hearing "On A Misty Night" w/Trane and Julius Watkins, and I'm LIKING it! "On A Misty Night" is the main reason I'm happy it's only a quartet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 But I'm hearing "On A Misty Night" w/Trane and Julius Watkins, and I'm LIKING it! Sure sounds nice! Oh, the power of imagination ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Fun thread. I've been appreciating Dameron's writing more and more these days. The Magic Touch is a new album to me (d'oh!), and it's a grand one. Takes a little while to get used to Barbara Winfield's two vocal tracks, but otherwise ... an enthusiastic . Now it's time to spin the album under consideration here. (Julius Watkins would be a nice second horn choice. Or, how about Jimmy Cleveland ... or possibly Teddy Charles?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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