ccex Posted August 20, 2008 Report Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) For the last two years I've inundated myself in the music of Bud Powell, and have found that he almost always kept his intensity at the keyboard, no matter how dire the circumstances. I have purchased the excellent Bud Powell discography by Claude Schlouch and have Carl Smith's "Bouncing With Bud: All the Recordings of Bud Powell". All of this started when I revisited a Bud Powell album ("Ups 'n Downs") I purchased 30 years ago which haunted me more than any other record in my collection. My question is: "Have any Bud Powell recordings made after October, 1964 surfaced?" According to Claude Schlouch (with whom Carl Smith agrees) the answer is yes, but only on the mysterious album "Ups 'n Downs", first issued by Mainstream Records as MRL-385 in the mid-1970s and more recently reissued on CD. The CD reissue (MDCD7424) includes two bonus tracks, "Im Always Chasing Rainbows" and Horace Silver's "No Smoking". Schlouch mentions that Bud first heard "No Smoking" after the composer met him in New York in the fall of 1964. He goes on to say that the jarring version of "Round Midnight" on this album was recorded at Carnegie Hall on 3/27/65, with the other tracks recorded with an unknown bass player and drummer in Soon after Powell's last Birdland engagement ended, his friend Francis Paudras returned to France. Bud was supposed to have joined him, after cutting a lackluster session for Roulette on 10/22/64 ("The Return of Bud Powell") for no reason other than to earn plane fares. Paudras wrote that this session almost didn't happen, since Bud didn't want to play with drummer J.C. Moses, who was present for most of his Birdland engagement. Bud had missed a planned Blue Note session a week or two before. Michael Fitzgerald's online discography and E.S.P.-disk's founder Bernard Stollman make this question more interesting. After Paudras' departure, Bud stayed in New York with his teenage daughter, Celia, and her mother Frances. Attorney Stollman promised future record dates and became Bud's last legal guardian. Bud Powell performed at the 3/27/65 Carnegie Hall Charlie Parker Memorial Concert, with "his queen" Frances sitting in the wings. Schouch believes that "Round Midnight", "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows", and "No Smoking" were from this concert, and supplies good reasons to support that the rest of "Ups 'n Downs" was recorded between October 1964 and early 1966. ESP-disk's Stollman disagrees about the Carnegie Hall tracks, saying that "ESP attempted twice to record Bud solo in 1965 1966 with disastrous results. Contrary to what Francis Paudras recited in his book, I had nothing to do with booking him for the Carnegie Hall Charlie Parker Memorial Concert, and when I heard him perform from backstage, I knew the tapes should never be issued. His hands were bruised and bleeding from a fall and he was unable to form chords. I confiscated the tapes from the engineer backstage and destroyed them". Nevertheless, Paudras, Schlouch, and Fitzgerald all agree that Stollman booked Bud Powell to play another concert at Town Hall, NYC on 5/1/65. fpr which Bud received $75 and was let free to go to the streets (according to Paudras). A Down Beat reviewer mentioned a performance of "I Remember Clifford", which Bud often played in memory of his brother Richie. Stollman also arranged one last recording session with Bud Powell, bassist Scotty Holt, and drummer Rashied Ali in January of 1966 (both mentioned on jazzdisco.org). All sources agree that the tapes from these last two sessions were never issued, and may have been destroyed. Bud Powell died in July of 1966. I don't think it's likely that Bud played the piano much in in the last year and a half of his life. Everyone who was close to him them is hush about this period. I don't expect that Rashied Ali or Scotty Holt are eager to divulge details of Bud Powell's last session, and I know that his daughter Celia is reticent about her father's final year. Most jazz critics said that he had been past his prime since 1953 anyway. Still, my curiosity torments me as to what Bud Powell played near the end. He left a great poem on his deathbed in the hospital, and had managed to overcome police beatings, electro-shock therapy, largactyl, house arrest, many institutionalizations, alcoholism, tuberculosis, and worse without losing his intensity at the keyboard. Geoff Dyer wrote to Bud in his book "But Beautiful" (quoted by Carl Smith):"I've always believed that an artist is someone who turns everything that happens to him as an advantage. Was that true for you, Bud?....the days you couldn't play--wasn't there something special about those performances as you struggled to learn again the language you had helped invent? Is it possible the music was heightened by your inability to play it?--like damage to a painting enhancing a perfection that is no longer there." I welcome comments with anyone who has insight into Bud Powell's last year and a half on this planet. Edited September 5, 2008 by ccex Quote
AllenLowe Posted August 20, 2008 Report Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) 1) Ups and Downs is, unfortunately, a sad document - I find it unlistenable - 2) a friend of mine saw him in 1966 and he basically passed out on stage there's plenty of good post-1955 Bud, but you have to pick and choose; even some nice RCAs, though the Verves and Roulettes remain the standard. There's the nice "live" Monk program that originally came out on Columbia - and some fine Xanadu (includes amazing duets with Johnny Griffin; listen to Idaho where Bud's left hand starts monochromatic but than adds the augmented and than the 6th interval) - Edited August 20, 2008 by AllenLowe Quote
BeBop Posted August 20, 2008 Report Posted August 20, 2008 ... - and some fine Xanadu (includes amazing duets with Johnny Griffin; listen to Idaho where Bud's left hand starts monochromatic but than adds the augmented and than the 6th interval) - Yes, yes, yes. Bud in Paris, I think it's called. Nice stuff. Quote
ccex Posted August 21, 2008 Author Report Posted August 21, 2008 1) Ups and Downs is, unfortunately, a sad document - I find it unlistenable - 2) a friend of mine saw him in 1966 and he basically passed out on stage Thanks, Allen 1) I found "Ups 'n Downs" unlistenable for the first 25 years I owned it. At least it shows Bud was still trying, unlike "The Return of Bud Powell" on Roulette. That one is just plain boring to me. At this point the only "unlistenable" Bud Powell I've heard are some of the Verve sides from January 1955. Some of his "home recordings" and most of the tracks from his Edenville vacation just before returning to the U.S. come close, with lots of grunting, an out of tune piano, and a timid rhythm section. 2) I didn't know that Bud Powell even attempted any public performances in 1966. You're right, there's lots of good post-1955 Powell. I like all three of his Blue Note albums. "Live In Lausanne" and "Bouncing with Bud" (with a young NHOP on bass) are among my favorites. Sounds like I need to find that Xanadu record, too. Quote
AllenLowe Posted August 21, 2008 Report Posted August 21, 2008 I might have that year wrong - will check with my brother-in-law, who witnessed it - Quote
BeBop Posted August 21, 2008 Report Posted August 21, 2008 ... - and some fine Xanadu (includes amazing duets with Johnny Griffin; listen to Idaho where Bud's left hand starts monochromatic but than adds the augmented and than the 6th interval) - Yes, yes, yes. Bud in Paris, I think it's called. Nice stuff. By the way, the Bud in Paris album also features a couple of tracks with Barney Wilen. Quote
jostber Posted August 21, 2008 Report Posted August 21, 2008 Here is more on the Ups'n Downs recordings and album: http://www.jazzdisco.org/bud-powell/catalog/ Quote
Caravan Posted August 21, 2008 Report Posted August 21, 2008 Most _authorities_ maintain that Round Midnight comes from Carnegie Hall, March 1965, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was from Town Hall, May 1, 1965. I never understood how anybody could think the drummer is J.C. Moses. Yes, some reissues (including the Japanese cd I have, which doesn't have the adiitional tracks) list him, but it's definitely not Moses. The latest word on it is that the trio tracks are in fact those by Scotty Holt and Rashied Ali, made by Stollman. The other solo tracks presumably stem from the same date or at least from the same period. Quote
Shrdlu Posted August 23, 2008 Report Posted August 23, 2008 How disgusting to hear that this great musician was beaten by the police. Add him to the list with Miles, Pres and who knows who else. I never knew that Bud played at the 1965 Parker Memoorial Concert. It's sad that he wasn't in form, when you consider who else was there - Diz, JJ and so on. Anyway, this is an excuse to recommend the released recordings from that concert. Some great stuff, especially Diz soaring into the high register. I got the original LP (on Limelight, with a stunning gatefold cover) when it first came out, and recently got the Japanese mini-LP CD reissue, which has about three extra tracks, including some more Diz. Quote
Peter Friedman Posted August 27, 2008 Report Posted August 27, 2008 Don't forget the 1963 Dexter Gordon date for Blue Note with Bud Powell on piano - Our Man In Paris. Quote
ccex Posted August 29, 2008 Author Report Posted August 29, 2008 (edited) Don't forget the 1963 Dexter Gordon date for Blue Note with Bud Powell on piano - Our Man In Paris. Yes, this is one of my favorites. I used this album as music on hold for over a year when I had a used computer shop in Chicago and never had any complaints. It's prime late-period Powell. I find it very interesting that someone thinks that mosto of "Ups 'n Downs" may have been the January 1966 ESP-disk session with Scotty Holt and Rashied Ali. I have no reasons to refute this. Edited September 5, 2008 by ccex Quote
mhatta Posted September 4, 2008 Report Posted September 4, 2008 (edited) Here's my observation and some thoughts: 1. Ups 'n Downs 5. A Moment's Notice 6. Caravan Riffs 11. Untitled Sounds like studio recording, but w/ some (fake?) applause by a few people at the end of tunes(somebody yells "Bravo!" also) . Done by trio, with a non-distinctive bassist and a very shaky drummer. Bud doesn't play well, seems got juiced. "Ups 'n Downs" must be a Bud's original, but I'm pretty sure somebody else named it. The bassist takes solos in "Ups 'n Downs" and "A Moment's Notice"(yes, that Trane's tune) and uses pedal points heavily. Is this Scotty Holt? The drummer surely sounds like Rashied Ali when he plays straight four beat, conventional Jazz drums(AFAIK he is not really good at doing it even nowadays). "Caravan Riffs" is actually an alternate take of "Ups 'n Downs". "Untitled" is actually a Horace Silver's tune "No Smokin'". The drummer takes a very amateurish solo in them. I don't believe this "No Smokin'" comes from the Carnegie Hall Charlie Parker Memorial Concert(even if Bud played it). 3. Earl's Impro 4. Thelonious 8. Jazz Black/White 10. March To Paris 12. I'm Always Chasing Rainbows Done by the same trio in the same studio (possibly at the same session), but without applause. Again most of tunes must be named by someone else, not Bud himself. "Earl's Impro" is similar to another Bud's composition "Monopoly". The bassist takes solo in it. "Jazz Black/White" is possibly based on "Almost Like Being In Love". On "March To Paris" the bassist takes intro solo. I don't think Track 12 comes from the Carnegie Hall concert, this is clearly a studio recording. Track 11 and 12 are bonus tracks, available only in MDCD 724. 2. Like Someone In Love 9. I Can't Believe That You're In Love With Me Solo piano. Sounds like studio recording, without applause. But I won't be surprised if they come from Paudras' home recordings. Bud plays pretty well. "I Can't" is actually Bud's own "Buttercup". 7. 'Round Midnight Solo piano. Bud plays pretty well. At the end it has a big applause in a big venue such as Carnegie Hall or Town Hall, but for me it sounds like a fake. I'm not sure this one is really from live recording. Edited September 4, 2008 by Masayuki Hatta Quote
BeBop Posted September 4, 2008 Report Posted September 4, 2008 Here's my observation and some thoughts: Thanks and welcome! Quote
Niko Posted September 4, 2008 Report Posted September 4, 2008 Here's my observation and some thoughts: Thanks and welcome! seconded! Quote
ccex Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) Thanks, Masayuki, and Caravan! I have only the original Mainstream LP of Ups 'n Downs, but always suspected that this was recorded well after Bud's fall 1964 Birdland engagement. I thank both of you for your insight, and I'm fascinated by your suspicions that most of this session may have come from Bud's rejected January 1966 session with Scotty Holt and Rashied Ali. I must find the CD reissue for tracks #11 and 12. When these recordings were first issued in the '70s no one knew their origin, but most discounted the original liner notes by Nat Hentoff, which said they were from the mid-1950s and some of his best playing. Hentoff was obviously wrong on both counts, as if he was writing liner notes for a totally different session. Carl Smith, in his book "Bouncing with Bud: All the Recordings of Bud Powell" considers this a mystery. He agrees with Claude Schouch's discography that these tracks were from 1965 and/or 1966. In 1997 he wrote: "This recording is shrouded in mystery to this day, and though Bud's technique had slipped badly in these live [?] sessions, the music is still compelling. No one seems to know, or is willing to say, where and when they were recorded or who the other musicians are....This does not appear to be a bootleg album, but a fully produced commercial release with enthusiastic liner notes by Nat Hentoff. Perhaps Mainstream Records itself did not have this information but considered the performances worth releasing whatever their origins. More intriguing is the possibility that Mainstream Records did have the correct information but for some reason chose not to disclose it. I hope someday to know the details." ESP-disk's founder Bernard Stollman (Bud's legal guardian after October 1964) has a website for his label, in which he admits ESP-disk was founded in upon borrowing his inheritance from his mother to record music until he ran out of funding in 1973 or 1974. Mainstream somehow issued "Ups 'n Downs" shortly after ESP-disk went broke. ESPdisk.com had a forum in 2006 and 2007, which was coincidentally (?) deleted a week after I asked about the Bud Powell recordings of 1995 and 1966, and whether ESP-disk had any intentions to release any more Bud Powell recordings. Stollman has been back in business with ESP-disk since 2005 but is unlikely to divulge details of Bud's last recordings. Bud Powell's daughter, Celia, is still alive, and has taken recordings of her dad made by Francis Paudras (which Francis legally assigned to her) for issue on the Pablo label and one CD of Parisian "home recordings" on Jessica Shih's Piadrum label. Celia is not eager to share details of the last years of her father's life to Carl Smith, Claude Schouch, and others. I can't blame her to keeping family matters private Finally, this thread has been the most informative information I've read on Bud Powell's last recordings. Congratulations! Paul Robertz Here's my observation and some thoughts: 1. Ups 'n Downs 5. A Moment's Notice 6. Caravan Riffs 11. Untitled Sounds like studio recording, but w/ some (fake?) applause by a few people at the end of tunes(somebody yells "Bravo!" also) . Done by trio, with a non-distinctive bassist and a very shaky drummer. Bud doesn't play well, seems got juiced. "Ups 'n Downs" must be a Bud's original, but I'm pretty sure somebody else named it. The bassist takes solos in "Ups 'n Downs" and "A Moment's Notice"(yes, that Trane's tune) and uses pedal points heavily. Is this Scotty Holt? The drummer surely sounds like Rashied Ali when he plays straight four beat, conventional Jazz drums(AFAIK he is not really good at doing it even nowadays). "Caravan Riffs" is actually an alternate take of "Ups 'n Downs". "Untitled" is actually a Horace Silver's tune "No Smokin'". The drummer takes a very amateurish solo in them. I don't believe this "No Smokin'" comes from the Carnegie Hall Charlie Parker Memorial Concert(even if Bud played it). 3. Earl's Impro 4. Thelonious 8. Jazz Black/White 10. March To Paris 12. I'm Always Chasing Rainbows Done by the same trio in the same studio (possibly at the same session), but without applause. Again most of tunes must be named by someone else, not Bud himself. "Earl's Impro" is similar to another Bud's composition "Monopoly". The bassist takes solo in it. "Jazz Black/White" is possibly based on "Almost Like Being In Love". On "March To Paris" the bassist takes intro solo. I don't think Track 12 comes from the Carnegie Hall concert, this is clearly a studio recording. Track 11 and 12 are bonus tracks, available only in MDCD 724. 2. Like Someone In Love 9. I Can't Believe That You're In Love With Me Solo piano. Sounds like studio recording, without applause. But I won't be surprised if they come from Paudras' home recordings. Bud plays pretty well. "I Can't" is actually Bud's own "Buttercup". 7. 'Round Midnight Solo piano. Bud plays pretty well. At the end it has a big applause in a big venue such as Carnegie Hall or Town Hall, but for me it sounds like a fake. I'm not sure this one is really from live recording. Edited September 7, 2008 by ccex Quote
Guest youmustbe Posted September 5, 2008 Report Posted September 5, 2008 The late Raymond Ross told me he took photos at the recording with Holt and Ali. He said that Dizzy was in the studio, encouraging Bud. I've never heard that record and never wanted to. I heard Bud when he cam back in 64 and must admit that it didn't get me, even though he was an idol of my jazz life and I knew some of his childhood friends thru my father. Ornette used to invite me to come to his apartement to meet Bud, but I was too shy. After all these years, soem of Bud's playing truly is 'Amazing.' Quote
clifford_thornton Posted September 5, 2008 Report Posted September 5, 2008 I'll see if I can get any details from Stollman. I have his number somewhere. Quote
Guest youmustbe Posted September 5, 2008 Report Posted September 5, 2008 I was looking at Bud's photo in the Birdland All Stars '56 booklet....Damn if he doesn't look exactly like Cedar Walton, or better yet, vice versa! I have to show it to Cedar when he does my Bud tribute later this month. Gotta say, Bud was ahead of his time...sports a short Afro in '56. I especially dig those photos of Bud without a mustache. He looks like a lady killer! But then, Freddie Johns, his childhood friend told me that Bud always considered himself a handsome guy, sexier than Frank Sinatra, Bud told Freddie. Freddie had a huge photo of Bud over his bed. Quote
jazzbo Posted September 5, 2008 Report Posted September 5, 2008 I've never heard that record and never wanted to. I heard Bud when he cam back in 64 and must admit that it didn't get me, even though he was an idol of my jazz life and I knew some of his childhood friends thru my father. After all these years, soem of Bud's playing truly is 'Amazing.' I've never heard this one either, though I think I have nearly everything else. I agree, after all these years Bud's playing still can be . . . "incroyable" as the French say. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted September 6, 2008 Report Posted September 6, 2008 Dear Clifford I set up this recording session for Bud, but was disappointed, as was Bud, in the problems they encountered, having had no rehearsal time, and coming from a later generation they found it impossible to relate to his rhythmic direction. The tape mysteriously found its way to MAINSTREAM Records, which issued it as an lp (perhaps) but certainly as a cd in London. They even used a small photo on the back cover, of me sitting beside Bud and Dizzy Gillespie on a couch, during the session. That is all I know about it. I encountered Bud for the first time on his return to NYC after a lengthy period of living in Paris with Buttercup, then with Francis Paudras. When they arrived, I took Francis to dinner at the Carnegie Tavern. Bud could be viewed from our seat, running around the block. Francis, shamefaced, said "I gave him the wrong pills." I have written a chapter of my autobiography on this subject, so I must confine myself to saying that during these last 2 years of his life(he died at 42), I tried to be helpful to him. He was burned out from a hard life, multiple illnesses, alcoholism, mental problems. He was a reclusive shy genius, perhaps some sort of savant. It is well known that he and Monk got along very well, sharing a language that no one else would understand, and he brought Monk's tunes to life. Kind regards Bernard Quote
jazzbo Posted September 6, 2008 Report Posted September 6, 2008 Thanks for sharing this Clifford! Quote
JSngry Posted September 6, 2008 Report Posted September 6, 2008 Ditto, and tell Mr. S that it definitely was on a Mainstream LP. I got it back in the day, on the same day as their Brown/Roach curiosity Daahoud, an album that purported to be the group's demo tape but was actually a combination of issued and alternate takes. Ups & Downs is a difficult record, and not in a good way, but the live(?) version of "'Round Midnight" is just plain spooky. Quote
Late Posted September 23, 2008 Report Posted September 23, 2008 If people are curious about the record, iTunes does have it, with the two bonus tracks. $10 isn't a steal, but hey. The original cover art attached. Quote
Gheorghe Posted October 17, 2008 Report Posted October 17, 2008 Hello ccex! Count me in as a very very loyal fan of Bud Powell. I´m glad you opened that topic, I could tell you very much about Bud and his music. The mentioned record "Ups´n Downs" for a long time had been an enigma for me. I first saw it mentioned on a japanese illustrated discography during the late 70´s as his last record, that means recorded after the 1964 "Return of Bud Powell", supposed to be from "late 1964, early 1965". Until at last I got that LP I was puzzled about the fact that the album lines mentioned it as being from the "mid fifties" which can´t be true. So I was glad to read Claude Schlouch´s discography, because he also shares my opinion that it´s Bud´s very last recording. I understand Mr. Masayuti Hatta´s opinion that it´s "fake" applause on most tracks, but IMHO not on "Round Midnight". I´m quite sure it´s recorded at a large concert hall (Carnegie), since the sound of the piano is the sound of a well tuned concert-grand. Let me say something about one other tune from that album: "Earl´s Impro". As other people here say, we shouldn´t think Bud himself gave the titles to the tunes. Actually, "Earl´s Impro" was composed by Bud in september 1964 during the time of his 40th birthday, celebrated with some friends (music lover Marshall Evans) on the Fire Islands, where Marshall had a house on the beach. On that occasion, Bud composed a few tunes ("Marshall´s Tower", "Margarete" and "Oh Boy"). I saw the manuscripts of that compositions, and "Earl´s Impro" from the Mainstream-record actually is "Oh Boy". About "No Smoking": I have a recording of it from Birdland, with J.C. Moses and John Ore. It´s played quite fast, but since Bud just played it without rehearsing, the theme-interpretation is quit shaky, but Bud really recovers during his first improvised chorus. The other tune "Margarete" , I also got it on my collection. Bud had dedicated it to Miss Margarete Nielsen, who was close to him. It´s nothing special, just sounds like a medium-tempo version of "I´ll keep loving you" (Bud´s famous ballad from 1949). Once I saw an interview with Margarethe Nielsen on TV, she talked about Bud´s last years and I was quite astonished to hear the tune "Margarete" running in the background. Bud´s daughter Celia also talked on that film. I think it was Francis Paudras´ project and shortly after his death they showed it on swiss-TV. I´d really like to have it recorded, too bad I don´t have it. It´s not easy for me to exchange impressions about Bud, since I don´t know nobody who shares my love for his music (at least the way I do), so I´d be a happy man if I could exchange my impressions and feelings about Bud and his music. Gheo Quote
Brad Posted October 17, 2008 Report Posted October 17, 2008 I'm also a big Bud fan, as evidenced by the avatar. The Xanadu is quite good although pre 64. Some of the Black Lions are very interesting also, if you can get your hands on those. Quote
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