MLB 2009 Season

[PHILLYQ]

Its 100% bull shit to extrapolate anything from this positive test and 50 game suspension into any sort of aspersion whatsoever on the 2004 or 2007 World Championships.

And I say a hearty "FUCK YOU" to anyone who wants to make that claim.

Dangerous Dan hath spoken.

I don't know, Dan. Have you ever compared before and after pix of Mike Lowell? If there's a more obvious juicer, I don't know who it would be. Manny and Lowell are just the tip of the iceberg. Once MLB gets to looking into this, who knows what might happen. I mean c'mon, Dan, the Yanks were up 3-0 in 2004 and lost the series? No way that happens unless are chemicals involved.

Equally Dangerous Dave

Up over and out.

2004 was Joe Torre killing his bullpen to lose the series against the Bosox- I thought Gordon's arm would fall off!

[vajerzy]

Each day Jose Conseco looks better and better and has more credibility, in my opinion.

[Dan Gould]

Holy shit, the Sox have scored 12 runs in the sixth against Cleveland without making a single out!

What was that about the Cleveland bullpen, SS1?

[T.D.]

Each day Jose Canseco looks better and better and has more credibility, in my opinion.

Yup. And, as I like to point out, nobody ever sued him for libel.

[Soulstation1]

Damn It

[Tim McG]

Its 100% bull shit to extrapolate anything from this positive test and 50 game suspension into any sort of aspersion whatsoever on the 2004 or 2007 World Championships.

And I say a hearty "FUCK YOU" to anyone who wants to make that claim.

Dangerous Dan hath spoken.

I'm making that claim, Danny Bouy.

The drug ManRam takes is one that is used to mask the use of steroids. And have you noticed how big his head is these days?

Let's see how you react now that the proverbial Bonds steroids bullshit is smeared on your team, eh?

Manny is a cheater, Dan. Your BoSox should forfeit those WS rings.

Prove me wrong.

Edited May 7, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[WorldB3]

^ it was HCG - the fertility drug is commonly used at the end of a roid cycle to kick-start the production of testosterone. There really isn't any reason for him to do so unless he did roids in the past. I don't think he did them with the Dodgers.

As I said before stop the witch hunts with only some players and clean up the game. I do think if Albert Puljous gets caught it might end baseball as we know it.

[papsrus]

Manny is a cheater, Dan. Your BoSox should forfeit those WS rings.

Prove me wrong.

But there's no evidence that he was taking anything while with the BoSox. You gotta have the evidence first.

You can suspect all you want, but I don't think you can start throwing asterisks around or calling for forfeits without evidence from his playing days in Boston.

Whether or not forfeits are warranted is another question. Gotta start there with the Dodgers, though.

IMHO

btw, Rays tagged Rivera for back-to-back HRs in the ninth to break a tie ballgame and TB went on to get the two-game sweep. I think there were 6 total HRs in that game.

Edited May 7, 2009 by papsrus

[Dave James]

Another Yankee game...another Yankee loss. Not only that, but with A-Roid returning to the team this weekend, this circus is about to add another ring. Somewhere behind closed doors, the brass has to be discussing a managerial change. I supported Girardi when they hired him before last season, but he's had more than enough time to show that he can get the job done and it's pretty obvious he can't. Best to cut your losses now and try to get the ship righted before its too late. Right now, the whole organization both on and off the field is a total disaster. Too bad The Boss is out of it. Heads would have rolled long ago if he still had his wits about him.

Up over and out.

[papsrus]

And if the O's sweep, I think the Yankees would be in the cellar.

[papsrus]

Re: Manny.

Aparently mlb already has an exemption for legitimate medical needs when it comes to banned substances. Didn't know that.

[Dan Gould]

Its 100% bull shit to extrapolate anything from this positive test and 50 game suspension into any sort of aspersion whatsoever on the 2004 or 2007 World Championships.

And I say a hearty "FUCK YOU" to anyone who wants to make that claim.

Dangerous Dan hath spoken.

I'm making that claim, Danny Bouy.

The drug ManRam takes is one that is used to mask the use of steroids. And have you noticed how big his head is these days?

Let's see how you react now that the proverbial Bonds steroids bullshit is smeared on your team, eh?

Manny is a cheater, Dan. Your BoSox should forfeit those WS rings.

Prove me wrong.

That's simple, fuckwad.

Manny Ramirez was a member of the LA Dodgers when he tested positive in March TWO THOUSAND NINE.

Manny Ramirez never tested for positive as a member of any Red Sox team.

QED, bitch.

[Dan Gould]

^ it was HCG - the fertility drug is commonly used at the end of a roid cycle to kick-start the production of testosterone. There really isn't any reason for him to do so unless he did roids in the past. I don't think he did them with the Dodgers.

I am going to assume that you meant to say "I don't think he did them with the Red Sox" since its quite obvious that he in fact did them as a Dodger. Unless, that is, you are of the belief that steroid cycles are eight years long, followed by a ten month break, then an intensive effort to jump start the production of testosterone.

What is everyone going to say if a respected doctor - not some guy running a store-front script mill - comes out and says "Manny has had erectile dysfunction for a long time. OTC medications have not helped, and therefore I prescribed a female fertility drug that is known to trigger a massive increase in testosterone production in an attempt to treat his problem. I did not realize this would trigger a positive test in MLB's drug program. I am sorry and have already reached a settlement agreement with Mr. and Mrs. Ramirez."

Because as embarrassing as it may be, if that is Manny's explanation, he's got to get it out there and not just put out a statement and disappear for 50 games. Then you can bet that Manny was cycling steroids in the off-season.

[Aggie87]

What is everyone going to say if a respected doctor - not some guy running a store-front script mill - comes out and says "Manny has had erectile dysfunction for a long time. OTC medications have not helped, and therefore I prescribed a female fertility drug that is known to trigger a massive increase in testosterone production in an attempt to treat his problem. I did not realize this would trigger a positive test in MLB's drug program. I am sorry and have already reached a settlement agreement with Mr. and Mrs. Ramirez."

Because as embarrassing as it may be, if that is Manny's explanation, he's got to get it out there and not just put out a statement and disappear for 50 games. Then you can bet that Manny was cycling steroids in the off-season.

I'm guessing that will be his explanation. And if it is, there should be a justification for why using that particular banned subtance was required, as opposed to any of the legitimate ED drugs out there - Viagra, Levitra, Cialis, etc.

If I'm a pro ball player and I'm given something like this by a doctor, don't you think I'd want to ENSURE it's not against my employer's rules before putting it in my body? Especially when a $22.5M paycheck and endorsements and adulation are involved?

[papsrus]

If I'm a pro ball player and I'm given something like this by a doctor, don't you think I'd want to ENSURE it's not against my employer's rules before putting it in my body? Especially when a $22.5M paycheck and endorsements and adulation are involved?

And given the fact that MLB does have an exemption policy for legitimate uses of at least some banned substances, if you do have a medical need for one of these drugs then of course you're going to go through the proper channels to get the exemption. The fact that he didn't do this makes it less likely that he had a legitimate medical issue.

The excuse that "my doctor prescribed it and I didn't know it was a banned substance" doesn't wash, given this exemption policy.

[WorldB3]

^ it was HCG - the fertility drug is commonly used at the end of a roid cycle to kick-start the production of testosterone. There really isn't any reason for him to do so unless he did roids in the past. I don't think he did them with the Dodgers.

I am going to assume that you meant to say "I don't think he did them with the Red Sox" since its quite obvious that he in fact did them as a Dodger. Unless, that is, you are of the belief that steroid cycles are eight years long, followed by a ten month break, then an intensive effort to jump start the production of testosterone.

What is everyone going to say if a respected doctor - not some guy running a store-front script mill - comes out and says "Manny has had erectile dysfunction for a long time. OTC medications have not helped, and therefore I prescribed a female fertility drug that is known to trigger a massive increase in testosterone production in an attempt to treat his problem. I did not realize this would trigger a positive test in MLB's drug program. I am sorry and have already reached a settlement agreement with Mr. and Mrs. Ramirez."

Because as embarrassing as it may be, if that is Manny's explanation, he's got to get it out there and not just put out a statement and disappear for 50 games. Then you can bet that Manny was cycling steroids in the off-season.

and I believe Bonds was taking flax seeds. plus he never failed a test with the giants. even k?

testing was much more stringent when Manny was a Dodger then when he was a red sox. your killing me.

Manny's not dumb, he cut his cycle too close.

Edited May 8, 2009 by WorldB3

[Dan Gould]

^ it was HCG - the fertility drug is commonly used at the end of a roid cycle to kick-start the production of testosterone. There really isn't any reason for him to do so unless he did roids in the past. I don't think he did them with the Dodgers.

I am going to assume that you meant to say "I don't think he did them with the Red Sox" since its quite obvious that he in fact did them as a Dodger. Unless, that is, you are of the belief that steroid cycles are eight years long, followed by a ten month break, then an intensive effort to jump start the production of testosterone.

What is everyone going to say if a respected doctor - not some guy running a store-front script mill - comes out and says "Manny has had erectile dysfunction for a long time. OTC medications have not helped, and therefore I prescribed a female fertility drug that is known to trigger a massive increase in testosterone production in an attempt to treat his problem. I did not realize this would trigger a positive test in MLB's drug program. I am sorry and have already reached a settlement agreement with Mr. and Mrs. Ramirez."

Because as embarrassing as it may be, if that is Manny's explanation, he's got to get it out there and not just put out a statement and disappear for 50 games. Then you can bet that Manny was cycling steroids in the off-season.

and I believe Bonds was taking flax seeds. plus he never failed a test with the giants. even k?

testing was much more stringent when Manny was a Dodger then when he was a red sox. your killing me.

Manny's not dumb, he cut his cycle too close.

Bonds samples have tested positive by the more stringent testing done by the FBI.

As for Manny and his tests, there have been no significant changes in the testing, the changes were in the penalty regime. He tested multiple times with the Red Sox and was never positive.

Look, I know you hate the Sox for their success and their revenue that helps support it. Using this to say that their championships is in any way tainted only reflects your own hatred, not any evidence of steroid use.

[ghost of miles]

Another Yankee game...another Yankee loss. Not only that, but with A-Roid returning to the team this weekend, this circus is about to add another ring. Somewhere behind closed doors, the brass has to be discussing a managerial change. I supported Girardi when they hired him before last season, but he's had more than enough time to show that he can get the job done and it's pretty obvious he can't. Best to cut your losses now and try to get the ship righted before its too late. Right now, the whole organization both on and off the field is a total disaster. Too bad The Boss is out of it. Heads would have rolled long ago if he still had his wits about him.

Up over and out.

Yep--plus the new stadium bites IMO.

[WorldB3]

Look, I know you hate the Sox for their success and their revenue that helps support it. Using this to say that their championships is in any way tainted only reflects your own hatred, not any evidence of steroid use.

I don't think their championships are tainted, but there is no way in hell Manny wasn't cycling roids with the Red Sox. Just as I don't think Bonds, A-Rod, Clemmens ect should have a fucking * on their records because way more people were doing them then we think therefore it was a even playing field. I only said that to bring up the stupidity of the media and fans who wanted the * in the past.

There is 4 ways to look at it.

1. Probably the most healthy way is who cares, its entertainment.

2. Mine, I don't like it but I get it. If 40% more college eligible kids are trying to break into pro sports then in the 70's then DUH they will do anything they can to get an edge to be part of the that 1% and keep doing it once there in.* Since its impossible to clarify eras anyway the sanctity of the records are overrated. I never thought I would say this but Jose Canseco is looking smarter everyday.

3. Screw em all Im done.

4. Your way which is only selected players that have already been pointed out have done them and need to be punished to the full extent of the law and all of my guys are clean is hypocritical in my opinion.

* I bet there was poll in america right now that asked would you take an illegal drug to get paid like a CEO I am guessing it would be close to a 90% yes.

[papsrus]

Look, I know you hate the Sox for their success and their revenue that helps support it. Using this to say that their championships is in any way tainted only reflects your own hatred, not any evidence of steroid use.

I don't think their championships are tainted, but there is no way in hell Manny wasn't cycling roids with the Red Sox. Just as I don't think Bonds, A-Rod, Clemmens ect should have a fucking * on their records because way more people were doing them then we think therefore it was a even playing field. I only said that to bring up the stupidity of the media and fans who wanted the * in the past.

There is 4 ways to look at it.

1. Probably the most healthy way is who cares, its entertainment.

2. Mine, I don't like it but I get it. If 40% more college eligible kids are trying to break into pro sports then in the 70's then DUH they will do anything they can to get an edge to be part of the that 1% and keep doing it once there in.* Since its impossible to clarify eras anyway the sanctity of the records are overrated. I never thought I would say this but Jose Canseco is looking smarter everyday.

3. Screw em all Im done.

4. Your way which is only selected players that have already been pointed out have done them and need to be punished to the full extent of the law and all of my guys are clean is hypocritical in my opinion.

* I bet there was poll in america right now that asked would you take an illegal drug to get paid like a CEO I am guessing it would be close to a 90% yes.

There's another way to look at it. I keep saying it. Look at the evidence. When you say there is "no way in hell Manny wasn't cycling roids with the Red Sox," where's the evidence that he was? (btw, does MLB keep samples?) It's an assumption that you just can't make, I don't think. Particularly since this is the first test he's failed out of X-number that he's taken. The evidence is clearly that he didn't cycle roids while with the BoSox.

Edited May 8, 2009 by papsrus

[Dan Gould]

Thank you, Paps.

[Tim McG]

Manny is a cheater, Dan. Your BoSox should forfeit those WS rings.

Prove me wrong.

But there's no evidence that he was taking anything while with the BoSox. You gotta have the evidence first.

You can suspect all you want, but I don't think you can start throwing asterisks around or calling for forfeits without evidence from his playing days in Boston.

Whether or not forfeits are warranted is another question. Gotta start there with the Dodgers, though.

IMHO

That was and has been my argument about Bonds' HR record.

Seems to me if we are going to asterisk Bonds' record, then we need to apply the very same criterion to every suspected steroids user. To do anything less is hypocrisy.

Speculation is still ust that. Manny cannot claim the high ground anymore and neiher can the BoSox.

Edited May 8, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

Look, I know you hate the Sox for their success and their revenue that helps support it. Using this to say that their championships is in any way tainted only reflects your own hatred, not any evidence of steroid use.

I don't think their championships are tainted, but there is no way in hell Manny wasn't cycling roids with the Red Sox. Just as I don't think Bonds, A-Rod, Clemmens ect should have a fucking * on their records because way more people were doing them then we think therefore it was a even playing field. I only said that to bring up the stupidity of the media and fans who wanted the * in the past.

There is 4 ways to look at it.

1. Probably the most healthy way is who cares, its entertainment.

2. Mine, I don't like it but I get it. If 40% more college eligible kids are trying to break into pro sports then in the 70's then DUH they will do anything they can to get an edge to be part of the that 1% and keep doing it once there in.* Since its impossible to clarify eras anyway the sanctity of the records are overrated. I never thought I would say this but Jose Canseco is looking smarter everyday.

3. Screw em all Im done.

4. Your way which is only selected players that have already been pointed out have done them and need to be punished to the full extent of the law and all of my guys are clean is hypocritical in my opinion.

* I bet there was poll in america right now that asked would you take an illegal drug to get paid like a CEO I am guessing it would be close to a 90% yes.

Exactly.

[Tim McG]

Look, I know you hate the Sox for their success and their revenue that helps support it. Using this to say that their championships is in any way tainted only reflects your own hatred, not any evidence of steroid use.

I don't think their championships are tainted, but there is no way in hell Manny wasn't cycling roids with the Red Sox. Just as I don't think Bonds, A-Rod, Clemmens ect should have a fucking * on their records because way more people were doing them then we think therefore it was a even playing field. I only said that to bring up the stupidity of the media and fans who wanted the * in the past.

There is 4 ways to look at it.

1. Probably the most healthy way is who cares, its entertainment.

2. Mine, I don't like it but I get it. If 40% more college eligible kids are trying to break into pro sports then in the 70's then DUH they will do anything they can to get an edge to be part of the that 1% and keep doing it once there in.* Since its impossible to clarify eras anyway the sanctity of the records are overrated. I never thought I would say this but Jose Canseco is looking smarter everyday.

3. Screw em all Im done.

4. Your way which is only selected players that have already been pointed out have done them and need to be punished to the full extent of the law and all of my guys are clean is hypocritical in my opinion.

* I bet there was poll in america right now that asked would you take an illegal drug to get paid like a CEO I am guessing it would be close to a 90% yes.

There's another way to look at it. I keep saying it. Look at the evidence. When you say there is "no way in hell Manny wasn't cycling roids with the Red Sox," where's the evidence that he was? (btw, does MLB keep samples?) It's an assumption that you just can't make, I don't think. Particularly since this is the first test he's failed out of X-number that he's taken. The evidence is clearly that he didn't cycle roids while with the BoSox.

And there is no evidence Bonds did either.

Speculation is all anyone has proven and if the media, HOF, and MLB let ManRam and the BoSox off the hook then this MLB drug testing program is just a biased piece of garbage.

[papsrus]

And there is no evidence Bonds did either.

Speculation is all anyone has proven and if the media, HOF, and MLB let ManRam and the BoSox off the hook then this MLB drug testing program is just a biased piece of garbage.

Is there really "no" evidence Bonds did?