Big Beat Steve Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 While all the Felsteds are at least interesting, IIRC the only ones that are top-notch are the Hawkins (which is sublime) and the Hines half of the one he shares with Cozy Cole, which I believe was the first recorded evidence in a good while that Hines not only remained a ferocious improviser but also might be getting more ferocious with the passage of time). Seemed to me that the roughly contemporaneous Prestige Swingville dates were a good deal more successful overall, not to mention the various John Hammond Vanguard albums of a while before (led by Vic Dickinson, Sir Charles Thompson, Jo Jones, et. al.) and the Columbia Buck Clayton jam sessions. If so, I think that's because the producers of the Felsted dates (Stanley Dance and, unless I'm mistaken, Albert McCarthy) were a shade too deferential to the sensibilities of the players involved in assembling the bands and in guiding the proceedings in the studio. Sorry to disagree but while I have no doubt about the excellence of the Hawkins date I really have no complaints about the enjoyable standards of the Buddy Tate and Budd Johnson dates either. As for the producers being too "deferential" (won't look it up right now but IIRC they explained their approach in more appropriate - and quite plausible - terms in contemporary issues of "Jazz Monthly"), I cannot really see what's wrong with letting the old men have their way instead of trying to coax them into a mold that may not always have been 100% theirs outside the recording studio. Which is maybe what left me a bit puzzled with some of those Swingville dates (some of those I have heard more closely anyway). I can see the appeal of those Swingville dates to those who at the same time have explored the Prestige/Riverside etc. catalogs from the Hard Bop end of jazz, so sessions where (except on sessions like the "Basie Reunion" dates) the producers' rule seemed to have been to "let's make those oldsters show off to what extent - comparatively speaking - they have absorbed their hard bop" certainly will be fine for that target audience. Yet if you aproach "middle jazz" from a chronological/evolutionary point of departure of late 30s and 40s swing then the reaction would rather be "What's the point?". So the Felsted dates sound more like a logical evolution to me, but of course I can see why those weaned on Prestige/Swingville etc. will find them just not quite adventurous enough. But in the end it all boils down to a matter of personal taste, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) The Budd Johnson is really very good - and for my taste, it sounds better than the Prestige/Swingville recordings Van Gelder made. I'm tempted - I have only the Strayhorn on CD, and two or three on LPs. I wonder where the Japanese got the tapes for their CD reissues - and where Affinity got theirs - they reissued the whole series on LPs, and those I have do not sound like needle drops. Edited September 5, 2011 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) What about the Cue Porter? Sorry -- don't have strong memories of it. I do very much like the "The Big Sound" date on Verve and the RCA Hodges-Strayhorn big band album, plus the Hodges 1956-61 small-group things that Granz recorded and that came out in a Mosaic box. The The Big Sound date is included in the Hodges 1956-1961 Mosaic set. Talk about failing memory -- I bought "The Big Sound" separately a good many years after I bought the Mosaic set. From 'The Big Sound' only the second session of September 3, 1957 is on the Mosaic Set. The sessions of June 26, 1957 and the first session of September 3 1957 are big band recordings and thus not included on this small groups set. So you were right to buy the Fresh Sound. Yep, you're right, forgot about those. Failing memory, eh... Edited September 5, 2011 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 ... not to mention the various John Hammond Vanguard albums of a while before (led by Vic Dickinson, Sir Charles Thompson, Jo Jones, et. al.) and the Columbia Buck Clayton jam sessions. Now that's a Mosaic set I'd buy in a second! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 ... not to mention the various John Hammond Vanguard albums of a while before (led by Vic Dickinson, Sir Charles Thompson, Jo Jones, et. al.) and the Columbia Buck Clayton jam sessions. Now that's a Mosaic set I'd buy in a second! At least some of those Vanguard sessions have been reissued on CD. I have a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Yeah, I'd be all over that Vanguard material, too! Missed it when it was still around on CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) ... not to mention the various John Hammond Vanguard albums of a while before (led by Vic Dickinson, Sir Charles Thompson, Jo Jones, et. al.). Now that's a Mosaic set I'd buy in a second! They've all been around the reissue block (at least on vinyl) so often that I am not sure what market there is left that would warrant a really lucrative market. Especially since I have a feeling that (as far as collector appeal goes) mainstream (or "middle") jazz even is a "niche" market within the greater jazz niche per se. Edited September 5, 2011 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 ... not to mention the various John Hammond Vanguard albums of a while before (led by Vic Dickinson, Sir Charles Thompson, Jo Jones, et. al.) and the Columbia Buck Clayton jam sessions. Now that's a Mosaic set I'd buy in a second! At least some of those Vanguard sessions have been reissued on CD. I have a few. But boy did they get chopped up. And the booklet notes in several cases were marred with errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Especially since I have a feeling that (as far as collector appeal goes) mainstream (or "middle") jazz even is a "niche" market within the greater jazz niche per se. Guess you're right there... just had the Columbia Small Group Swing Mosaic in my hands today - got it when it was running low - seems they only sold about half of the planned edition of 5000 before it timed out. Too bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 ... not to mention the various John Hammond Vanguard albums of a while before (led by Vic Dickinson, Sir Charles Thompson, Jo Jones, et. al.) and the Columbia Buck Clayton jam sessions. Now that's a Mosaic set I'd buy in a second! At least some of those Vanguard sessions have been reissued on CD. I have a few. But boy did they get chopped up. Yep, they're a mess - like Prestige chopped up many of their sessions in the 1950s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Especially since I have a feeling that (as far as collector appeal goes) mainstream (or "middle") jazz even is a "niche" market within the greater jazz niche per se. Guess you're right there... just had the Columbia Small Group Swing Mosaic in my hands today - got it when it was running low - seems they only sold about half of the planned edition of 5000 before it timed out. Too bad! Yeah it is strange how the number in those box sets remind you what a minority you are in! And deluxe box sets are a niche within a niche within a niche... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 no one has mentioned Dicky Wells, who I believe is some of the Felsteds (Bones for the King?). Not his best work but some nice missles fired. as for needle drops, if the LP is clean and the engineer knows what he's doing (including editing between songs) it's possible to do it without anybody being the wiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazztrain Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 There are two Dicky Wells albums on Felsted -- "Blues for the King" and "Trombone Four In Hand" No one has mentioned the Buster Bailey album ("All About Memphis"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 There are two Dicky Wells albums on Felsted -- "Blues for the King" and "Trombone Four In Hand" No one has mentioned the Buster Bailey album ("All About Memphis"). That's "Bones for the King." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 I ended up ordering this via Worlds Records. There's enough here that I didn't have, and those that haven't been out on cd separately before. . . probably won't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazztrain Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 You're right, of course. Something got scrambled between the brain and fingers... There are two Dicky Wells albums on Felsted -- "Blues for the King" and "Trombone Four In Hand" No one has mentioned the Buster Bailey album ("All About Memphis"). That's "Bones for the King." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 You're right, of course. Something got scrambled between the brain and fingers... There are two Dicky Wells albums on Felsted -- "Blues for the King" and "Trombone Four In Hand" No one has mentioned the Buster Bailey album ("All About Memphis"). That's "Bones for the King." Well, I often confuse my blues and my bone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjluke68 Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 $29 at blowitoutahere.com plus $2 shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted September 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Quick question for you guys... How similar/dissimilar is this from the Mosaic Columbia Swing Sessions??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Just ordered from Worlds Records - man, this Board costs me a LOT of money! Don't know whether to feel or . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Anyone notice there is a 9 disc set on Fresh Sound and the 5 disc set under discussion. You can check this out by an Amazon search for "Complete Felsted". So it seems the guys downstairs are now stealing from the guys upstairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yea I saw that... :crazy: Anyone notice there is a 9 disc set on Fresh Sound and the 5 disc set under discussion. You can check this out by an Amazon search for "Complete Felsted". So it seems the guys downstairs are now stealing from the guys upstairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 TM, I can't remember if you liked the Small Group Mosaic or not. It's similar in many ways to the Mainstream material, with differences as well in instrumentation, material, etc. I think one who liked one would like the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 That's indeed funny! All albums are pictured there in large, too: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B005JT1FJM/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=5174&s=musicBtw, I'd feel the material is different in vibe to the Columbia sessions. Not sure how to put it... a bit less modern sounding; instrumentation is part of that, lots of guitar on the Columbia, and Braff, Webster, Hawkins, Terry, Burrell are all guys that were smoothly fitting in with nearly any imaginable setting - wouldn't say that of Dicky Wells or Buster Bailey or Rex Stewart. No disrespect intended... it's more like somehow what I've heard of the Felsted material was still more closely linked with tradition, while the Columbia material has this "mainstream" vibe to it (sort of enlightened approach to tradition, slightly detached, looking at it and then digging back into it... there's a mise en abîme somewhere in there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) More information now at the Fresh Sound site. Edited September 15, 2011 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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