Stores

[Stefan Wood]

The Jazz Loft sale is a mystery. They will not refill stock, but I can't tell if it is just the dvds or the entire store. Plus, there is no formal announcement on the website or the email I had received.

[sidewinder]

Move to Worksop and try to hold true to that 100% physical stores approach.

Don't you have Eric Rose's Music Inn nearby? (not that they would necessarily have the stuff you play).

Is it still going? It used to have a big shop a mile out from Nottingham city centre; then moved to an arcade in the centre. I'd assumed it had folded.

Still advertising in Jazz Journal so assume still there (although not sure if it is mail-order only).

[A Lark Ascending]

I do wish labels like Emanem and Ogun would make downloads available. I'd buy more.

Don't know if it's a feeling that they'd be sacrificing quality, returns from downloads being considerably less than physical (wouldn't volume of sale make up for this?), the small scale of the businesses making it too big a venture or fear that pirating would be easier.

They wouldn't even have to use the iTunes/Amazon route - just having them linked to their website.

Classical music labels seem so much further ahead in this and seems far less hung up on fear of change.

Move to Worksop and try to hold true to that 100% physical stores approach.

Don't you have Eric Rose's Music Inn nearby? (not that they would necessarily have the stuff you play).

Is it still going? It used to have a big shop a mile out from Nottingham city centre; then moved to an arcade in the centre. I'd assumed it had folded.

Still advertising in Jazz Journal so assume still there (although not sure if it is mail-order only).

Still seems to have an address in West End Arcade - not a place I pass through on my rare visits to Nottingham. Will have to look next time.

Found this from David Rose (son of Eric, I believe) from a 2007 online comment:

David Rose, Nottingham

Sad to say it's another facet of the "instant gratification" generation. Junk food, mp3, online shopping (don't see or test quality) all equals a society of tasteless, lard asses. We all know CD is rubbish and mp worse. We know that those stupid earpieces used with iPaps deliver abject sound, but do the cretin masses care? Nope.

Nice to see elitism is alive and well in sunny Nottingham ('we all know'...good lord, my A Level students don't get away with that sort of assertion).

Edited November 8, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[sidewinder]

Sounds like my sort of place !

[T.D.]

There are a couple of brick-and-mortar stores, with surprisingly good jazz selections, about 60 miles from me (and a block from each other!). I try to visit when in town, and occasionally purchase. Unfortunately, one of the two has an unpleasant habit of offering used CDs with scratches!

For classical recordings, the Internet is my only feasible source.

Sounds like Rhino Records and Jack's Rhythm's?

Exactly!

Jack's also started carrying used books some years ago, and they have a very nice selection. Unfortunately, every used CD (3 in total before giving up) I bought from them was scratched.

Rhino does have quite a few classical discs, mostly used, but the ones I pulled out and looked at had scratches. I live too far away to be bothered with returns/exchange.

Both shops have lots of vinyl.

[Added] Inquiring Minds bookstore, across the street from Rhino, has a reasonable selection of jazz CDs (and a few classical), worth looking at if you're in the area but not worth making a special trip. Their music section also stocks decent jazz titles - I've seen Larry Kart's Jazz in Search of Itself and Groves/Shipton's The Glass Enclosure in the past.

Edited November 8, 2013 by T.D.

[LWayne]

Still prefer buying CDs (and vinyl on occasion) at my local brick and mortar. The owner is a great guy and often special order for me. This IS supporting local retail when you have established a bond. No Amazon for me, except as a last resort.

BTW, I am always amazed at how often jazz musicians do not carry copies of their recent releases with them for sale. IMHO they are missing out on some incremental revenue. Particularly when CD companies provide a certain number of promos that can be sold at a higher profit margin by the artist himself.

Quite a few concerts at a well-known local venue where the musician could have sold many a physical CD to an eager audience that still seeks out product rather than download.

For me, I still prefer the shopping experience, tangible product, and the occasional autograph to make it all very special.

LWayne

Edited November 8, 2013 by LWayne

[page]

I replied this on another thread, about where I buy my music:
"I nearly never buy music online. Mainly I go to just 2 stores, one is because it is a local one and I want to support it. They have mainly second hand stuff. The other is in Amsterdam called 'Concerto'. After the closing down of 'Blue Note' that is the best option to go for jazz. I do buy at concerts sometimes, when it is affordable and I did enjoy the concert or when I'm a fan of the artist anyway and want to pick one of his/her albums. It is nice to get it signed right there. I don't get mp3 downloads, mainly because I like to look at the booklets, and want to 'feel' and 'smell' the real thing. I can't afford to buy that much, so when I do get an album I have carefully picked it out."

In the past I also went to record/vinyl fairs, not for jazz but for material of a particularly rockband I was fan of. I did notice there is another fair coming and wondered just this week whether I should go to look how they're sorted in jazz.

Edited November 8, 2013 by page

[Tom 1960]

There are a couple of brick-and-mortar stores, with surprisingly good jazz selections, about 60 miles from me (and a block from each other!). I try to visit when in town, and occasionally purchase. Unfortunately, one of the two has an unpleasant habit of offering used CDs with scratches!

For classical recordings, the Internet is my only feasible source.

Sounds like Rhino Records and Jack's Rhythm's?

Exactly!

Jack's also started carrying used books some years ago, and they have a very nice selection. Unfortunately, every used CD (3 in total before giving up) I bought from them was scratched.

Rhino does have quite a few classical discs, mostly used, but the ones I pulled out and looked at had scratches. I live too far away to be bothered with returns/exchange.

Both shops have lots of vinyl.

[Added] Inquiring Minds bookstore, across the street from Rhino, has a reasonable selection of jazz CDs (and a few classical), worth looking at if you're in the area but not worth making a special trip. Their music section also stocks decent jazz titles - I've seen Larry Kart's Jazz in Search of Itself and Groves/Shipton's The Glass Enclosure in the past.

Thanks for the tip on Inquiring Minds!

[king ubu]

Here's my recent personal history of music purchase, arranged according to date and source:

CD last bought from bricks and mortar store: 2 years ago

CD last bought as download: 7 months ago

CD last bought from musician at gig: 6 months ago

CD last bought from online supplier: 1 month ago

CD last listened to via paid-for streaming: listening now

I'd be interested to know how this compares with others' experience.

okay, here goes ...

CD last bought from bricks and mortar store: some weeks ago (less and less often, prices have come down, but still are ridiculous - like double the prices of German, French or English online shops)

CD last bought as download: never ever

CD last bought from musician at gig: couple of weeks ago (not doing this all that often since prices being asked often tend to go into bricks and mortar regions)

CD last bought from online supplier: couple of days ago (doing this weekly, my main supply)

CD last listened to via paid-for streaming: never ever

Edited November 8, 2013 by king ubu

[jlhoots]

The Jazz Loft sale is a mystery. They will not refill stock, but I can't tell if it is just the dvds or the entire store. Plus, there is no formal announcement on the website or the email I had received.

It appears to be the entire store. The will not restock statement is ominous for their longevity.

[jeffcrom]

I've enjoyed reading this thread, even if most of this has been hashed out before. I was to write a long reply, but decided to keep it relatively short:

Atlanta is blessed with lots of new and used record/CD stores, which I hit often. Whenever possible, I try to buy new CDs from Decatur CD, but they can't get some of the more esoteric stuff through their distributors. I like the used stores as well, because you never know what you might find.

I hated Bev's line about "helping to keep an increasingly outdated means of distribution on life-support," but I think he's probably right. I worry about how much longer Decatur CD can stay in business - the owner says sales are dwindling, and they have a pretty high overhead.

I just love records (you can read that as "records and CDs") - beyond their superiority as sound carriers over downloads. I mean, downloads have gotten better, and my ears are getting worse, so switching to downloads should make sense. But I've loved looking through records, sorting records, handling records, and listening to records for over 40 years, and they're in my blood.

That being said, I recently visited a musician friend who no longer keeps any records or CDs - it's all on his hard drive and his iPods. It freaked me out a little, but I can see how it would be liberating to get rid of all the physical objects and just listen to the music. Old habits die hard, and I don't think I could totally do that. But at some point my wife is going to want to retire near her family on the other side of the country, and I figure that's when I will go ahead, bite the bullet, and whittle my records and CDs down to a few boxes. But I'm not looking forward to it.

[gmonahan]

I was amazed during a recent trip to Kyoto to find a Tower Records store in business. I thought the chain had gone belly up world wide. Did my part--bought several cds there. I think I was partly just sentimental about getting hold of one of those yellow bags. The Japanese still seem to like record stores. I found several during the trip, much to the detriment of my wallet.

gregmo

[GA Russell]

I am not aware of a store which carries a selection of new jazz CDs in this area. To be precise, the only seller of new CDs that I am aware of is Walmart, and they sell mostly Hispanic material.

[A Lark Ascending]

I hated Bev's line about "helping to keep an increasingly outdated means of distribution on life-support," but I think he's probably right.

I get no pleasure from that situation; it just seems that's how things are. With the reductions in storage and transport costs (for the producer) that downloads/streaming represent I'm surprised the CD has held out as long as it has.

I appreciate totally how many listeners are still drawn to the older mediums. When I bought my first download a few years back I was really unsure - did they sound as good? did it feel the same as having the full package? It took six months or so to decide a) if there were sonic differences I wasn't the sort of listener to hear them; b) I didn't particular want the package, just the music.

I hope the situation continues that we can access the music we love in a variety of formats (so can we put a stop to those vinyl only releases please!!!!!). But I'd not put money on it.

[erwbol]

Downloads require different playback equipment and there are possible restrictions on the buyer's location (e.g. Blue Note 24bit/192kHz FLACs). I do not trust the direction corporations are taking us with downloads. It gives them too much power over our music libraries' future. Streaming is a fat cat scheme which should not be supported out of consideration for the artists who would like to get payed once in a while as well.

I like looking at the pretty pictures of the cover art. Call me shallow, but it helps me focus on the music. Sometimes reading a book can be too distracting.

[Homefromtheforest]

The local record stores are dead around here in my opinion...none carry the more esoteric jazz titles and as far as used record shopping goes it's definitely dead. Ebay killed the thrill of used record stores for me...one of the great things about used record stores for me growing up was that possibility of finding some unknown gem sitting in the racks that the owner was totally unaware of as far as value...now every used record is looked up online and priced above and beyond the ebay average! So I hardly bother anymore going to used record stores anymore around here...even if they had a cool or interesting title it would most likely be priced above what I might get it on ebay for.

As for CDs I buy all mine online now...it's just easier and as I already mentioned there are no local record stores anymore that stock them. We used to have a store here in Vancouver BC called "A & B Sound" that was pretty decent in carrying alot of interesting jazz cds for good prices but they are long gone. So now it's mainly Amazon for new CDs or the individual label's websites.

Downloads? No thanks. I am old fashioned and still appreciate pulling out an actual LP or CD and looking at the artwork and maybe reading a few liner notes while listening. In my opinion nothing quite beats listening to a NM LP on a nice turntable....downloads are faceless and are just not the same.

[sidewinder]

We used to have a store here in Vancouver BC called "A & B Sound" that was pretty decent in carrying alot of interesting jazz cds for good prices but they are long gone. So now it's mainly Amazon for new CDs or the individual label's websites.

I remember that store well - it had a good collection and often my trips to Van coincided with one of their nice '20%-off everything' sales (usually coincident with Labour Day, Thanksgiving or some other holiday). The Albertan cities also had good stores by the same chain.

Edited November 9, 2013 by sidewinder

[A Lark Ascending]

Streaming is a fat cat scheme which should not be supported out of consideration for the artists who would like to get payed once in a while as well.

Making 78s, LPs, cassettes, CDs etc were/are also fat cat schemes.

The problem with digital transfer is it makes it so much easier to bypass the performers' rights to earn a living. But that is a problem of society handling the medium, not an inherent problem of the medium (think back and when the very first recording methods appeared there were concerns that performers would have their livelihoods stolen).

I would gladly pay a premium to ensure that performers get paid fairly. But this is the world of capitalism and I'm not sure that's how the capitalist free market works. Just like the t-shirt you wear probably got made where the worker could be paid least. The problem is not the technology that made the t-shirt. It's how we as humans have decided to manage that technology and recompense those who do the work (and deal with those out who lose their livelihoods when the technology they have been trained to use becomes obsolete).

As things are in the world of global capitalism the only thing open to the individual is to make a personal, moral decision to purchase where the performer is likely to make some money - through legitimate retailers, direct from the performer, in a local store you trust to be fair etc; refusing to download for free or buy bootlegs etc.

But the morality lies in making that choice where you buy; there is no morality in choosing a CD over an mp3.

Edited November 9, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[erwbol]

As things stand now with big profile artists complaining they aren't getting paid enough for Spotify, it's a safe assumption that jazz musicians aren't getting any money. That would mean the decent thing to do is not stream.

Downloads (mp3, FLAC, etc.) are probably a different matter financially from streaming. Do you trust corporations with not locking you out of your own property (is it or isn't it) in the future in some way or another? I do not. The possibilities for them to do so are numerous.

[A Lark Ascending]

As things stand now with big profile artists complaining they aren't getting paid enough for Spotify, it's a safe assumption that jazz musicians aren't getting any money. That would mean the decent thing to do is not stream.

Downloads (mp3, FLAC, etc.) are probably a different matter financially from streaming. Do you trust corporations with not locking you out of your own property (is it or isn't it) in the future in some way or another? I do not. The possibilities for them to do so are numerous.

Well, I'm still trapped in 'ownership' mode so I only stream to explore; then I download if I want that recording.

The thing about streaming is that it is a very new technology. I accept it poses serious issues over how to recompense those who make the music. But the problem isn't streaming as such; it's how streaming is managed - and in a world run on principles of free market capitalism ('the market will ultimately make everything all right, trickle down etc, etc') we're going to get this unfairness.

Dare a say, a bit of government interventionism wouldn't go amiss! But then, we are told, the wealth creators will flee to another zone where they can enjoy the free market unhindered.

Edited November 9, 2013 by A Lark Ascending

[David Ayers]

Historically the only performer on a jazz record who might have a royalty in her/his contract was the named leader. That was part of the entertainment industry's system of exploitation. The only decent thing to do is not buy those recordings.

[erwbol]

Does that make you a bittorrent junkie?

[A Lark Ascending]

Does that make you a bittorrent junkie?

Don't understand the question.

I can probably be described as recording-acquiring junkie. I buy way more recordings than I can ever hope to process effectively. But the medium by which I acquire them is purely based on the most practical means of acquisition. For me that's downloading.

[erwbol]

Does that make you a bittorrent junkie?

Don't understand the question.

That was in response to David Ayers' post. Either that or he abstains (or he is an indecent man).

Historically the only performer on a jazz record who might have a royalty in her/his contract was the named leader. That was part of the entertainment industry's system of exploitation. The only decent thing to do is not buy those recordings.

Edited November 9, 2013 by erwbol

[sidewinder]

Dare a say, a bit of government interventionism wouldn't go amiss! But then, we are told, the wealth creators will flee to another zone where they can enjoy the free market unhindered.

Napoleonic forts/Fort Boyard clones in the middle of the English Channel perhaps, filled up with server stacks? Shades of Radio Caroline..

Edited November 9, 2013 by sidewinder