CJ Shearn Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 https://bit.ly/3TqB3h3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 Creed Taylor's work is for me very much a mixed bag. But a large and significant one. High water mark being founding Impulse! Low water mark being CTI going from high quality wine and cheese music to been open too long swill and cheese whiz very quickly. By his mid-40s he was done as far as any big impact goes. Yes, I'm being a little harsh but that's the thing to me - this is the guy that gave us Blues & the Abstract Truth and other exceptionally fine music. And was able to walk that tightrope between art & commerce about as well as anyone in the biz for a time. But when he fell, he definitely fell to one side. As an example, I think Turrentine and Crawford did much better work for Blue Note and Atlantic respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 I have different view. CTI was to me more distinctive in terms of concept and sound than Impulse, which Taylor left soon after the launch anyway. And while I don't necessarily like everything on that label there is no shortage of high quality playing and productions. An underestimated sequence is the albums from the period when CTI was an A&M subsidiary. Taylor himself might have felt crippled by the influence of Alpert, but what came out was consistent and almost a genre of its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted August 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Daniel A said: I have different view. CTI was to me more distinctive in terms of concept and sound than Impulse, which Taylor left soon after the launch anyway. And while I don't necessarily like everything on that label there is no shortage of high quality playing and productions. An underestimated sequence is the albums from the period when CTI was an A&M subsidiary. Taylor himself might have felt crippled by the influence of Alpert, but what came out was consistent and almost a genre of its own. A great different perspective. Thank you! For me the CTI sweet spot is 1970-1974 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 Thank you for mentioning the great Kenyon Hopkins, whose score for The Hustler is one of the greatest jazz motion picture scores of all time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 To me CTI starts strong with an impressive roster and distinctive look and sound, and then quickly hits a wall. But I don't track the sequence really well, so some of that may be more as I experienced it v. how it happened in real time. For instance, I own the first 3 Joe Farell albums on CTI and love 2 & 3, but have little to no interest in the rest. And yes I did hear them at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said: To me CTI starts strong with an impressive roster and distinctive look and sound, and then quickly hits a wall. But I don't track the sequence really well, so some of that may be more as I experienced it v. how it happened in real time. For instance, I own the first 3 Joe Farell albums on CTI and love 2 & 3, but have little to no interest in the rest. And yes I did hear them at the time. I'll have to agree with a lot of what Dan said. CTI isn't represented all that much in my collection and for nearly every release I own on the label or subsequent reissue which originally was released on CTI, the artist recorded better albums for other labels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said: Thank you for mentioning the great Kenyon Hopkins, whose score for The Hustler is one of the greatest jazz motion picture scores of all time! if you like Kenyon Hopkins, I recommend: https://www.amazon.com/Rooms-New-York-Kenyon-Hopkins/dp/B002XMGJGC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 There is not a better Stanley Turrentine album than Salt Song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said: I'll have to agree with a lot of what Dan said. CTI isn't represented all that much in my collection and for nearly every release I own on the label or subsequent reissue which originally was released on CTI, the artist recorded better albums for other labels. Thanks, by the way it's Dana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 Sorry, yet another typo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, JSngry said: There is not a better Stanley Turrentine album than Salt Song. Not for my $. I kind of regret not picking up a copy for $5 when I could have, but not that much. Can't imagine reaching for it ahead of any of the BN. I'm not even sure it's the CTI ST I like most. Edited August 30, 2022 by danasgoodstuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabshakeh Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 43 minutes ago, JSngry said: There is not a better Stanley Turrentine album than Salt Song. I was going to say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 hour ago, CJ Shearn said: For me the CTI sweet spot is 1970-1974 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmonkie Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Daniel A said: I have different view. CTI was to me more distinctive in terms of concept and sound than Impulse, which Taylor left soon after the launch anyway. And while I don't necessarily like everything on that label there is no shortage of high quality playing and productions. An underestimated sequence is the albums from the period when CTI was an A&M subsidiary. Taylor himself might have felt crippled by the influence of Alpert, but what came out was consistent and almost a genre of its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, JSngry said: There is not a better Stanley Turrentine album than Salt Song. The title cut is pure genius on ST's part and Deodato's arr.. And those great bass slides by Ron Carter!!!!! I was so inspired by it that I wrote a big band version of it, but I featured trombone playing ST's part, so it wouldn't be the same thing.So far, it hasn't been played, because none of the bands i play with have a percussionist, and that tune is all ST and percussion. We did an earlier version I wrote for my HS Concert Band, but just as we were getting somewhere, the percussionist (a member of the Latin Kings) took out a kid who took out his brother with a baseball bat, so he went for a little stay at Riker's Island, and never came back. But I trascribed ST's genius intro and solo (Jeepers Creepers!) and someday soon... 5 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said: Thank you for mentioning the great Kenyon Hopkins, whose score for The Hustler is one of the greatest jazz motion picture scores of all time! Here's a thing on CT's Jet Set/specialty phase: https://www.ctproduced.com/the-abc-of-specialty-recording/ The writer claims that "There is a whole fascinating story about Hopkins and especially around his divorce which includes using binoculars to peep on neighbors, hitting his wife and more. One day." Edited August 31, 2022 by sgcim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 There is not a better Milton Jackson album than Sunflower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 2 hours ago, JSngry said: There is not a better Milton Jackson album than Sunflower. Not sure I know enuff Milt to judge, but that at least seems plausible. Unless we count that Milt/Monk/Miles session for Prestige (it wasn't all issued together initially, but I had a reissue that put it all together), if that's in the running it wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 "Not a better" certainly allows for 'as good as'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted August 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 3 hours ago, sgcim said: The title cut is pure genius on ST's part and Deodato's arr.. And those great bass slides by Ron Carter!!!!! I was so inspired by it that I wrote a big band version of it, but I featured trombone playing ST's part, so it wouldn't be the same thing.So far, it hasn't been played, because none of the bands i play with have a percussionist, and that tune is all ST and percussion. We did an earlier version I wrote for my HS Concert Band, but just as we were getting somewhere, the percussionist (a member of the Latin Kings) took out a kid who took out his brother with a baseball bat, so he went for a little stay at Riker's Island, and never came back. But I trascribed ST's genius intro and solo (Jeepers Creepers!) and someday soon... Here's a thing on CT's Jet Set/specialty phase: https://www.ctproduced.com/the-abc-of-specialty-recording/ The writer claims that "There is a whole fascinating story about Hopkins and especially around his divorce which includes using binoculars to peep on neighbors, hitting his wife and more. One day." Yes, I gotta rebuy that. Think I'm gonna get the recent Japanese blu spec CD reissue of that. I like those very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 It must be noted that two of the last CTIs released were very strong and distinctive: Art Farmer & Jim Hall's Big Blues, and Nina Simone's Baltimore. On a different note, I've noticed a few CTIs that don't seem coherent as albums. For example, Hubert Laws's In The Beginning. It's really hard to figure out what they were striving for; stylistically, it's all over the place. I read in the liner notes to a CTI CD reissue (don't remember the title) an arranger (may have been Sebesky or Dave Matthews) commenting that Taylor put together the bands and paid for the sessions, but spent almost no time in the recording studio; he left the supervision of the date to the arranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 35 minutes ago, mjzee said: It must be noted that two of the last CTIs released were very strong and distinctive: Art Farmer & Jim Hall's Big Blues, and Nina Simone's Baltimore. On a different note, I've noticed a few CTIs that don't seem coherent as albums. For example, Hubert Laws's In The Beginning. It's really hard to figure out what they were striving for; stylistically, it's all over the place. I read in the liner notes to a CTI CD reissue (don't remember the title) an arranger (may have been Sebesky or Dave Matthews) commenting that Taylor put together the bands and paid for the sessions, but spent almost no time in the recording studio; he left the supervision of the date to the arranger. Interesting points, you obviously know the history in more detail than I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted August 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 In The Beginning is really good but my favorite Hubert on CTI is Afro Classic, and Morning Star as well as his performances on the California Concert. At Carnegie Hall is just a mess with the overdubs, really no need for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 58 minutes ago, CJ Shearn said: Yes, I gotta rebuy that. Think I'm gonna get the recent Japanese blu spec CD reissue of that. I like those very much. On the CD I bought, they had Vera Cruz, another Nascimento song that wasn't on the original LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 My worthy constituent and forum member Fernando Ortiz de Urbina wrote this tribute for London Jazz News: https://londonjazznews.com/2022/08/29/creed-taylor-1929-2022/?amp=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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