Larry Kart Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 This 1965 Atlantic album, coupled now with a worthwhile but not great Atlantic album of the same vintage, "And Then Again," is very close to great in my book. Line up is Thad, Hank Mobley, Dollar Brand, Steve James (el. piano), Donald Moore, bass. Only drawback is that sound quality is less than vivid -- a remastering would be desireable, maybe some dial twiddling will do the trick. Thad at that period sounds like the trumpet giant ("Bartok with valves" in Mingus' apt phrase from the late '50s) that for some reason he arguably never quite became (too much attention paid to writing/band leading perhaps and/or just not enough evidence on record of Thad soloing at length?), but the adventurousness and intensity of everything he plays here pretty much takes my breath away. "Who is that masked man?" one feels like saying. Mobley is in top notch form, as are Elvin and Brand. Can't believe that this date sat on my shelf unheard for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 I have this but couldn't tell you when I listened last. May have to pull it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 A long time favorite here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 Will have to pull this from the shelf ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 Always been a favorite of mine and I agree that the audio on the Collectables two-fer isn't the greatest. I always attributed it to the Atlantic fire that destroyed the masters but since there have been several other Atlantic titles reissued on CD with decent sound, maybe it was just a bad tape given to Collectables? There was a Japanese CD issued in 2012 but I did not pick it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Larry Kart said: This 1965 Atlantic album, coupled now with a worthwhile but not great Atlantic album of the same vintage, "And Then Again," is very close to great in my book. Line up is Thad, Hank Mobley, Dollar Brand, Steve James (el. piano), Donald Moore, bass. Only drawback is that sound quality is less than vivid -- a remastering would be desireable, maybe some dial twiddling will do the trick. Thad at that period sounds like the trumpet giant ("Bartok with valves" in Mingus' apt phrase from the late '50s) that for some reason he arguably never quite became (too much attention paid to writing/band leading perhaps and/or just not enough evidence on record of Thad soloing at length?), but the adventurousness and intensity of everything he plays here pretty much takes my breath away. "Who is that masked man?" one feels like saying. Mobley is in top notch form, as are Elvin and Brand. Can't believe that this date sat on my shelf unheard for so long. Interesting questions regarding Thad. There's just not a lot of recorded examples of his soloing at length in the '60s. Mean What You Say (1966) is his only small group record as a leader in the 1960s and the only small group record with him in, say, a leadership position made between the cooperative Motor City Scene (1959) and You Made Me Love You (1975) -- the latter a Japanese release on Elec Records with Gregory Herbert, Mraz, Lewis; I don't think this one ever came out on CD and I've never seen nor heard the LP. The next small group record Thad made after that is the great live quartet date for Artist House in 1977 co-led with Mel and featuring Danko and Reid -- look for the CD, it's got two extra tracks, so two more Thad solos. There are a gaggle of large handful of small group appearances in the period between leaving Basie at the beginning of 1963 and the start of the big band with Mel in 1966, and like Larry says, Thad sounds consistently amazing. But you gotta dig for them. Here's one on a 1963 record. One remarkable trumpet (cornet) chorus over rhythm changes. BTW, that's a very young Chick Corea on piano. You really never know what Thad is going to play. I would love to produce/curate a survey of Thad's soloing in those years, drawing on the sideman dates for both small groups and larger ensembles where he gets a chance to blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 3 hours ago, JSngry said: A long time favorite here! Ditto, one of Elvin's best in my opinion. Bought it sound unheard many years ago and it truly floored me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said: Ditto, one of Elvin's best in my opinion. Bought it sound unheard many years ago and it truly floored me. Funny when I saw it I didn't need to have any idea how it sounded ... Hank was enough to make it an automatic purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 I'd agree that it's not the best-recorded album but the performances, tunes, and overall feel of the record make it a must-have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 I have an original Atlantic. It sounds like it. Not bad at all, and great music. Works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 Thad's on that Dexter Gordon Prestige session that was spread out over two LPs. I think his playing is a lot more on point than Dexter's to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, JSngry said: Thad's on that Dexter Gordon Prestige session that was spread out over two LPs. I think his playing is a lot more on point than Dexter's to be honest. This slow blues solo is fucking extraordinary. The level of expressive dissonance is off the charts. Downbeat ran a transcription of this back in the day; I think it was by David Baker but I can't put my hands on it right at this moment. Thad's solo is cued up here. Edited October 18, 2022 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Mark Stryker said: This slow blues solo is fucking extraordinary. The level of expressive dissonance is off the charts. Downbeat ran a transcription of this back in the day; I think it was by David Baker but I can't put my hands on it right at this moment. Thad's solo is cued up here. Whoa! I ordered the album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 Count me as a fan of 'Midnight Walk' (and of 'And Then Again'). I used "Lycra Too?" on one of my BFT's a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted October 18, 2022 Report Share Posted October 18, 2022 FYI -- And Then Again is the last time all three Jones brothers appear on a recording together. (March 1965). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, Mark Stryker said: Interesting questions regarding Thad. There's just not a lot of recorded examples of his soloing at length in the '60s. Mean What You Say (1966) is his only small group record as a leader in the 1960s and the only small group record with him in, say, a leadership position made between the cooperative Motor City Scene (1959) and You Made Me Love You (1975) -- the latter a Japanese release on Elec Records with Gregory Herbert, Mraz, Lewis; I don't think this one ever came out on CD and I've never seen nor heard the LP. The next small group record Thad made after that is the great live quartet date for Artist House in 1977 co-led with Mel and featuring Danko and Reid -- look for the CD, it's got two extra tracks, so two more Thad solos. There are a gaggle of large handful of small group appearances in the period between leaving Basie at the beginning of 1963 and the start of the big band with Mel in 1966, and like Larry says, Thad sounds consistently amazing. But you gotta dig for them. Here's one on a 1963 record. One remarkable trumpet (cornet) chorus over rhythm changes. BTW, that's a very young Chick Corea on piano. You really never know what Thad is going to play. I would love to produce/curate a survey of Thad's soloing in those years, drawing on the sideman dates for both small groups and larger ensembles where he gets a chance to blow. Mark, You left out this Thad Jones CD. Thad Jones Quartet - Three And One - Steeplechase SCCD-31197 Edited October 19, 2022 by Peter Friedman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 17 hours ago, Mark Stryker said: This slow blues solo is fucking extraordinary. The level of expressive dissonance is off the charts. Downbeat ran a transcription of this back in the day; I think it was by David Baker but I can't put my hands on it right at this moment. Thad's solo is cued up here. Haven't dug these Dexters out in ages but thanks for the reminder. I recall them being really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 They're far from top-shelf Dexter, but the other players are excellent. That's Stanley Clarke on bass, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 yes, that's what I did recall -- not necessarily go-to Dex but strong on all other counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Dexter was making superior records for Steeplechase at the same time. But his Prestige records....not so much. The session with Freddie Hubbard is a little better, but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Peter Friedman said: Mark, You left out this Thad Jones CD. Thad Jones Quartet - Three And One - Steeplechase SCCD-31197 I was just concentrating on the earlier period between 1963-66, and this one was recorded in 1984, but, yes, there are a handful of small group appearances in Thad's later career. 1 hour ago, JSngry said: Dexter was making superior records for Steeplechase at the same time. But his Prestige records....not so much. The session with Freddie Hubbard is a little better, but.... Would we agree that the best Dexter LP on Prestige -- by far -- is The Panther (1970)? Having said that, the master take of (old) "MIlestones" on Generation has strong and focused Dexter and the band is even better; but the rest of the record to me just doesn't reach the same heights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 48 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said: Would we agree that the best Dexter LP on Prestige -- by far -- is The Panther (1970)? We might not....I've always had a strong preference for The Jumpin' Blues, as well as the two "Power" records. I like The Panther just fine, but for some reason the rhythm section seems a little light to me. Oh, and The Chase with Gene Ammons. But those 70s Prestiges...those are not the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Mark Stryker said: I was just concentrating on the earlier period between 1963-66, and this one was recorded in 1984, but, yes, there are a handful of small group appearances in Thad's later career. Would we agree that the best Dexter LP on Prestige -- by far -- is The Panther (1970)? Having said that, the master take of (old) "MIlestones" on Generation has strong and focused Dexter and the band is even better; but the rest of the record to me just doesn't reach the same heights. Yes I agree with Mark and believe "The Panther" is Dexter's best Prestige recording. Contrary to Jim, I consider the rhythm excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Excellent, just light. Maybe it's a recording thing. I'd just like more presence to come out of the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon8 Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 The thread made me pull out "Midnight Walk" this morning, it had been a while: fun, funky, excellent originals, really like Dollar Brand/Abdullah Ibrahim percussive playing here. Speaking of Thad in the mid-sixties, he has some fantastic solos on Monk's "Big Band and Quartet" ("Bye-Ya", "I Mean You", "Light Blue") and on "The Individualism of Gil Evans" ("Concorde" and "Spoonful", with Elvin again on drums). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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