Early Sonny Rollins

[Alexander Hawkins]

Forgive me if this is not a simple question - probably not, I just don't know! - but is there any advised and/or economical way to pick up Sonny Rollins' pre-Prestige recordings?

I've got the Bud Powell date in Bud's vol.1, but other than that..?

I'm wanting to expand my Rollins collection outwards at either end chronologically - I've got the Prestige/Contemporary/RCA boxes, the BNs and a couple of Milestones, but none of the earlier things!

Anyway, any advice as ever much appreciated!

[Hardbopjazz]

Do you mean a sideman or as a leader? I don't know of anything before his 51' session for Prestige. His sessions with Babs Gonzales from the late 40's may be available on emusic. You can signup for the trial period and download them.

Edited April 5, 2004 by Hardbopjazz

[John L]

There ain't too much more than the Bud Powell date before Prestige. There are some sessions with J.J. Johnson that you can obtain on the first J.J Johnson chronological classics CD.

Given what you have listed, my advise is to pick up the 3 Impluse! CDs. If you don't have them, also keep an eye out for the live trio records from Europe vintage '59.

I imagine that you have the stellar sideman appearances with Monk, Miles, Gillespie, and Roach.

Edited April 5, 2004 by John L

[Alexander Hawkins]

Thanks very much John.

Is the Babs Gonzales stuff dispensable, then? And if I don't believe you ( ), is there a recommended way to get it?

Thanks for the input!

[Alexander Hawkins]

Hardbopjazz Posted on Apr 5 2004, 12:20 PM

  Do you mean a sideman or as a leader?

Either! I'd like to hear as much as possible!

[JSngry]

The Babs stuff used to be on a BN CD. Seek and you can probably find.

Babs, Bud & JJ is all I can think of pre-1951, including airshots w/Miles or anybody else. The guy didn't go through the usual route of coming up in big bnads or coming to NY from somewhere else and having to break in. He was already there and playing by the time he got record dates (that's a really mangled sentence, but you know what I mean).

[John L]

If you cover the J.J sides with chronological classics, you can do the same with the Babs:

[jazzbo]

That Babs Chronogical Classics (sic) is DA BOMB. Git It.

[Dmitry]

How big is the overlap between the Chronogical and the Weird Lullaby cds?

Babs on Bennie Green's Soul Stirrin' is like icing on a cake.

Lullaby Of The Doomed is amazing.

[jazzbo]

The overlap is big. . . and there are things on each that are not on the other. If you can only have one, I'd say the Classics indeed. It also has the benefit of being in print. . . !

[Dmitry]

The overlap is big. . . and there are things on each that are not on the other.  If you can only have one, I'd say the Classics indeed.  It also has the benefit of being in print. . . !

I have the Lullaby, now I'll have to get the Chrono too.

Thanks, Lon.

How about that autobio, is it in print ? Looks mighty fun. Weren't there two volumes?

I know Chris Albertson has a copy.

[jazzbo]

The Classics has the following sides (Apollo and Manor I believe) not on the Blue Note cd:

Roy's Groove

Phipps' Deep

Everything Is Cool

1280 Special

A Lesson On Bopology

Loop-Phy-E-Du

Honeysuckle Bop

A Choice Taste

The Blue Note has the following not on the Classics (are these all the Jimmy Smith sides? maybe I can't remember precisely):

  'Round About Midnight

  You Need Connections

  Encore

  Encore

Wonderful stuff, all of it!

[jazzbo]

I only know of one volume of the Autobiography, long long out of print; was in a pocketbook style paperback book. . . . A kind boardmember let me borrow it to read; it was an adventure!

[Late]

Red,

As John already mentioned, this is a good place to pick up a lot of early Newk. (Not all, but most.) You not only get Johnson Prestige sessions (with Kenny Dorham in tow), but the Savoy session that yielded Rollins' first recorded composition ("Audobahn"). Rollins is in fine (if still developing) form throughout (on the tracks he's on, that is), and the disc itself has joyous bebop from start to finish — with notable appearances by Sonny Stitt and Cecil Payne. It's actually a disc that gets a lot of play over here. Highly recommended.

Now ... Jazz Factory (or was it Definitive? -- same thing) actually put out two compilation discs (one recently, one a few years ago) of "complete" early Rollins, so you can actually go that route, too. I don't think they overlap, and, together, you'll get all the studio sideman appearances up to, I think, 1951: the Gonzales, Johnson, Powell, and Davis sessions, along with Newk's first for Prestige. I haven't actually heard these discs, so I can't comment too much otherwise.

You will certainly want to explore the grey market recordings from 1959-1968. Some of Rollins' most brilliant, if at times erratic, playing. There are still concert recordings from this period that are lingering in private collections, and a 30 minute documentary as well. I wish, somehow, that Rolllins estate, or someone connected with Rolllins — in positive business fashion — would collect these concert recordings into one organized box set ... especially while the man is still alive, and might benefit from sales.

[Pete C]

[Ragu]

The Babs bio "I paid my dues-Good Times No Bread" IIRC, is a fun read but take it with a grain of salt. And I think he did do a second volume

[mikeweil]

Portrait of the artist as a young woman ?

[couw]

Portrait of the artist as a young woman ?

c'mon mike, tell me this one isn't in your collection of sexy covers?

[mikeweil]

Now it is ... B)

[couw]

good

[jazzbo]

Nice to know that a second volume may be out there; would be good for someone to reprint them together. . . what are the odds?

Grain of salt? Necessary with any Babs Gonzales!

[Alexander Hawkins]

Given what you have listed, my advise is to pick up the 3 Impluse! CDs. If you don't have them, also keep an eye out for the live trio records from Europe vintage '59.

Forgot to add, I also have these. Thank goodness - I'd find it hard to survive without them

Thanks for all the help in this thread. If I'm being a scrupulous buyer, should I be avoiding 'Definitive'? I can't remember which of these companies it is which is apparently fleecing various people.

I think I might go the 'Chronologicals' route.

If I can broaden the question a little as well, how does one go about recognising/getting these 'grey market' live recordings? Up until this point, my collection has really been such that I can do just fine with the major releases, but I'd love to get into these slightly less mainstream things now!