"Louis in Chicago, 1925-26: The Complete Hot Five and Sideman Tracks" coming from Archeophone in Feb 2027

[ghost of miles]

A friend just spotted this post from Archeophone Records on Facebook:

Today is another anniversary: 100 years since Louis Armstrong and His Hot Five recorded “The King of the Zulu’s,” “Big Fat Ma And Skinny Pa,” “Lonesome Blues,” and “Sweet Little Papa.” So we’re celebrating with a big announcement. Coming from Archeophone in Feb. 2027: a box set titled “Louis in Chicago, 1925-26: The Complete *Acoustic* Hot Five and Sideman Tracks.” Album notes by our fellow GRAMMY winner Ricky Riccardi. Stay tuned for more details!

[jazzbo]

Good news, thanks for sharing.

[John L]

Sounds great!  

What do they mean by "complete acoustic?"  

[jazzbo]

I think they mean recorded with an acoustic horn, before electric microphones were used.

[medjuck]

4 minutes ago, John L said:

Sounds great!  

What do they mean by "complete acoustic?"  

The first Hot Five electronic recordings were September 2, 1927 in Chicago so I guess that session and any later ones are not included.  

[John L]

2 hours ago, medjuck said:

The first Hot Five electronic recordings were September 2, 1927 in Chicago so I guess that session and any later ones are not included.  

OK, thanks. 

[miles65]

The announcement says 1925-1926. That makes me think that Irish Black Bottom from November 27 1926 is the last recording included. In February 2027 those recordings are over a 100 years old and in the public domain even in the U.S.A. Archeophone's King Oliver 1923 set was issued  in 2024. 

If all recordings from 1925-1926 are included it will be a 3 CD set.

The 11 Hot 7 recordings from May 1927 were also recorded electronically. 

[jazzbo]

"Sideman Tracks" are in the description as well. . . might make it a bigger set. 

Edited June 23 by jazzbo

[miles65]

7 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

"Sideman Tracks" are in the description as well. . . might make it a bigger set. 

These are included n my 3 CD count.

[jazzbo]

Okay.

[Big Beat Steve]

If they concentrate on the acoustically recorded sessions they must have accomplished some really impressive sonic improvement to make these "been-aroud-the-reissue-block-a-zillion-times" items a major purchase item.
But wasn't there a reissue box set of the Hot Fives and Hot Sevens some years ago that according to reviews had already worked fidelity wonders?

[jazzbo]

JSP and Columbia put out sets of these recordings that to my ears sound very good, some prefer the JSP, I think I prefer the Columbia box. But. . . I think Archaeophone has a chance of making a better sounding release. Their record along these lines is good.

[J.A.W.]

4 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

If they concentrate on the acoustically recorded sessions they must have accomplished some really impressive sonic improvement to make these "been-aroud-the-reissue-block-a-zillion-times" items a major purchase item.
But wasn't there a reissue box set of the Hot Fives and Hot Sevens some years ago that according to reviews had already worked fidelity wonders?

This one sounds good, it came out in 2012: Louis-Armstrong-The-Okeh-Columbia-RCA-Victor-Recordings-1925-1933

[jazzbo]

Ricky Riccardi's thoughts on this set, thanks to an original post in this forum by King Ubu:

Q: Is it worth replacing Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, the original Columbia CD Vols 1-???, the JSP Hot 5s/7s etc with this set? For those of us who have been gathering these things for a long time, can you make a case for this particular issue?

RR: I'm proud of my little liner note offerings but I'm going to be honest: if you have everything you mentioned, there's no need for this set. It's really aimed for those who have heard a few samplers and want to get it all, the Hot Fives, Sevens, Hines stuff, OKeh big bands, Victor recordings, etc. A lot of that 1929-1933 has been out of print in the US for much of this century so it's nice to have them back.

Having said that, I just started listening and my original fears seem to be true: every disc is a straight rip of Sony's original releases from the late 80s and early 90s. To my ears, that's not a bad thing for most of the set but just skipping around, it appears that every single one of the 1925 and 1926 Hot Fives are pitched a half-step low! That is NOT a good thing. Man, I wish I heard this set before they produced it; maybe I could have warned them! They're going to get KILLED by the audiophiles for this...

... for this new set, they skipped the 2000 transfers entirely (a little noisy but in the correct keys!) and went back to the original issues from the late 80s. The transfers are clean thanks to a lot of processing but the lack of pitch correction was embarrassing then and even worse now.

Having said that, it's really the first two discs. I think the other 8 sound great and for anyone that doesn't have this music, it's a good bargain set. Even if you have the Hot Fives but kit much else, getting the 1927-1933 material on 8 discs for $65 ain't bad.

... when life returns to normal after the move and power outages, I'll do a long blog with A-B comparisons of a handful of the Hot Fives as released over t last 20 years.

Columbia did a helluva lot of reissues in the early CD days (all those "Jazz Masterpieces" with the blue borders). Now they're just repackaging them with the same inferior sound... So they did nothing except put old discs in new sleeves.

Again, I hope people enjoy my notes and I'll recommend it to newbies but I know this set is going to make people angry...and I hope they don't take it out on me! (The new Satchmo at Symphony Hall, well, that was my baby from start to finish so any problems with that, yes, direct them to me!)

[J.A.W.]

18 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

Ricky Riccardi's thoughts on this set, thanks to an original post in this forum by King Ubu:

Q: Is it worth replacing Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, the original Columbia CD Vols 1-???, the JSP Hot 5s/7s etc with this set? For those of us who have been gathering these things for a long time, can you make a case for this particular issue?

RR: I'm proud of my little liner note offerings but I'm going to be honest: if you have everything you mentioned, there's no need for this set. It's really aimed for those who have heard a few samplers and want to get it all, the Hot Fives, Sevens, Hines stuff, OKeh big bands, Victor recordings, etc. A lot of that 1929-1933 has been out of print in the US for much of this century so it's nice to have them back.

Having said that, I just started listening and my original fears seem to be true: every disc is a straight rip of Sony's original releases from the late 80s and early 90s. To my ears, that's not a bad thing for most of the set but just skipping around, it appears that every single one of the 1925 and 1926 Hot Fives are pitched a half-step low! That is NOT a good thing. Man, I wish I heard this set before they produced it; maybe I could have warned them! They're going to get KILLED by the audiophiles for this...

... for this new set, they skipped the 2000 transfers entirely (a little noisy but in the correct keys!) and went back to the original issues from the late 80s. The transfers are clean thanks to a lot of processing but the lack of pitch correction was embarrassing then and even worse now.

Having said that, it's really the first two discs. I think the other 8 sound great and for anyone that doesn't have this music, it's a good bargain set. Even if you have the Hot Fives but kit much else, getting the 1927-1933 material on 8 discs for $65 ain't bad.

... when life returns to normal after the move and power outages, I'll do a long blog with A-B comparisons of a handful of the Hot Fives as released over t last 20 years.

Columbia did a helluva lot of reissues in the early CD days (all those "Jazz Masterpieces" with the blue borders). Now they're just repackaging them with the same inferior sound... So they did nothing except put old discs in new sleeves.

Again, I hope people enjoy my notes and I'll recommend it to newbies but I know this set is going to make people angry...and I hope they don't take it out on me! (The new Satchmo at Symphony Hall, well, that was my baby from start to finish so any problems with that, yes, direct them to me!)

Thanks for the info, didn't know about the wrong key. What are those 2000 transfers Ricciardi is talking about? Suffice to say I'm not an Armstrong "specialist".

[Big Beat Steve]

So Ricky Riccardi did the liner notes to at least two of these 1920s Louis Armstrong box sets?
Is there any info yet on how the Archeophone set was/is being processed/re-remastered BEYOND the level of those previous sets? (Just wondering about what's technologically feasible these days ...)

[Stompin at the Savoy]

Hmnnn... I like this stuff.  Guess I have to go look through what I have from this period.  I know I have the JSP set and some version from Columbia.  

I guess this is the 2000 Columbia version referred to above: 

Edited June 24 by Stompin at the Savoy

[AllenLowe]

33 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

So Ricky Riccardi did the liner notes to at least two of these 1920s Louis Armstrong box sets?
Is there any info yet on how the Archeophone set was/is being processed/re-remastered BEYOND the level of those previous sets? (Just wondering about what's technologically feasible these days ...)

1) this is only a guess, but based on their prior work, I would have a strong hunch that this will be a clear improvement. I am going to take a chance and buy it because so much of the reissue work done on Armstrong is good but inconsistent. 

2) I do think it's time for these reissue places to find someone else to do Armstrong notes. Ricky Riccardi is s great, but he has written about these things over and over and over again. Let's get a fresh perspective (and I am not suggesting myself; I am easing myself out of the reissue-note game).

Edited June 24 by AllenLowe

[jazzbo]

1 hour ago, J.A.W. said:

Thanks for the info, didn't know about the wrong key. What are those 2000 transfers Ricciardi is talking about? Suffice to say I'm not an Armstrong "specialist".

As Stompin' at the Savoy posted, that is the Armstrong set from 2000. On my system it is still the best sounding version, and I believe pitch-correct.

 

[J.A.W.]

10 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

As Stompin' at the Savoy posted, that is the Armstrong set from 2000. On my system it is still the best sounding version, and I believe pitch-correct.

 

Ah, that one. I never really liked its sound, but it's been years since my last listen and maybe I should try it again. I also have the John R.T. Davies-mastered JSP set, but haven't listened to that one for a long time either.

[jazzbo]

They're both good. . . I just prefer the Columbia set, more clarity.  Preference is probably system dependent.

Edited June 24 by jazzbo

[J.A.W.]

Let's see what the upcoming Archeophone has to offer in terms of sound next year. 

[Big Beat Steve]

Not wanting to come across as too much of a "moldy vinyl fig", but since so many of you have moved among all those CD sets of the Hot Fives and Sevens, here's a question to those who might have "upgraded" in the past:

As far as I can see I have the run of Louis Armstrongs' leader dates from the 20s and very early 30s on the "VSOP Vol. 1/2 to 7/8" LP series (four twofers) on (French) CBS in their "Aimez vous le jazz" series reissued in the 1970s and widely distributed for a long time. How would you rate these sonically by comparison?

Basically I am quite OK with them. But I also have a share of these recordings on 1950s "early reissue originals" on (10") Odeon, Philips and Columbia and upon listening found the sonics of some of these surprisingly good, full and clear too - sometimes almost more so than on the VSOP twofers. Even though these 10-inchers aren't all NM. 

Edited June 24 by Big Beat Steve

[Stompin at the Savoy]

2 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Not wanting to come across as too much of a "moldy vinyl fig", but since so many of you have moved among all those CD sets of the Hot Fives and Sevens, here's a question to those who might have "upgraded" in the past:

As far as I can see I have the run of Louis Armstrongs' leader dates from the 20s and very early 30s on the "VSOP Vol. 1/2 to 7/8" LP series (four twofers) on (French) CBS in their "Aimez vous le jazz" series reissued in the 1970s and widely distributed for a long time. How would you rate these sonically by comparison?

Basically I am quite OK with them. But I also have a share of these recordings on 1950s "early reissue originals" on (10") Odeon, Philips and Columbia and upon listening found the sonics of some of these surprisingly good, full and clear too - sometimes almost more so than on the VSOP twofers. Even though these 10-inchers aren't all NM. 

Do you have the JSP cd's (or the Columbias)?  It would be very interesting to hear how they compare to the various vinyl editions you have.

Edited June 24 by Stompin at the Savoy

[jazzbo]

I have some of these on Columbia LP reissues in pretty good shape. . . they sound good, but in my system the cd versions have a more open, detailed sound. I like the King Jazz, JSP and Columbia box set versions best that I have.